[opensuse-project] Tumbleweed status & how to promote it
Hi all, I have some questions about Tumbleweed. First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset? Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1]) Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system? Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it. Cheers, Jos [1] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Talking_points#Why_openSUSE
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
I have some questions about Tumbleweed.
First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?
I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed. If anyone knows of a way to not do this, please let me know and I will be glad to test it out, but so far in my testing, this seems needed.
Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])
Yes, I think so.
Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system?
A "one-click-install" should be provided, that should be all that is needed. I don't know about installation time just yet, maybe 11.5/12.0 might be good for that, if at all.
Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D
On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it.
Great, glad to hear it. Oh, one question for you, how do I go about getting some artwork for the Tumbleweed project created? Any ideas? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
<snip>
Great, glad to hear it.
Oh, one question for you, how do I go about getting some artwork for the Tumbleweed project created? Any ideas?
Ping Andrew Fitzsimon HTH, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
I have some questions about Tumbleweed.
First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?
I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.
Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?
If anyone knows of a way to not do this, please let me know and I will be glad to test it out, but so far in my testing, this seems needed.
Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])
Yes, I think so.
Cool!
Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system?
A "one-click-install" should be provided, that should be all that is needed. I don't know about installation time just yet, maybe 11.5/12.0 might be good for that, if at all.
Ok.
Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D
On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it.
Great, glad to hear it.
Oh, one question for you, how do I go about getting some artwork for the Tumbleweed project created? Any ideas?
He, I already pinged some ppl on that - we need something pretty ;-)
thanks,
greg k-h
cheers, Jos
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
I have some questions about Tumbleweed.
First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?
I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.
Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?
I don't understand, what do you mean by "maintainers going to pick packages"? What it looks like is going to happen is the WHOLE 11.4 repo will be linked into the openSUSE:Tumbleweed repo and rebuilt. So, if you switch to Tumbleweed, you will end up installing everything again. Yeah, it's a pain, but it seems like the best way forward at the moment. And yes, there are alternatives, only picking the packages that change, _and_ the dependancies, and linking them in. But, that will start to drive me crazy very quickly, as it has already when trying to do some updates in the testing repo. But if people complain that this would be too much, we can do it, it's just more work on my part, which is fair enough. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 01 February 2011 03:45:37 Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
I have some questions about Tumbleweed.
First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?
I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.
Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?
I don't understand, what do you mean by "maintainers going to pick packages"?
What it looks like is going to happen is the WHOLE 11.4 repo will be linked into the openSUSE:Tumbleweed repo and rebuilt. So, if you switch to Tumbleweed, you will end up installing everything again.
Yes, once 11.4 is out. But I would like to know what happens after that - going towards 11.5/12.0? How many packages are 'part of the Tumbleweed initiative', IOW, being kept up to date? How many maintainers have said they will send regular new versions your way? Eg just the kernel, Xorg and GNOME? Or also LibreOffice, Firefox? is XFCE in? Will we have the latest Wireshark? Python packages? ;-)
Yeah, it's a pain, but it seems like the best way forward at the moment.
And yes, there are alternatives, only picking the packages that change, _and_ the dependancies, and linking them in. But, that will start to drive me crazy very quickly, as it has already when trying to do some updates in the testing repo.
But if people complain that this would be too much, we can do it, it's just more work on my part, which is fair enough.
Nah, I think it's not too bad for the 11.4 release, it's just a bigger download, that's it. Hurts us (our servers & bandwith) more than most of our users, I'd say. And Tumbleweed doesn't have that many yet, I would guess. We should however do better in the future - for someone living in a low-bandwith country like India or Brazil, an upgrade to 11.4 could take several days. And I feel that pain because I will be in Brazil during the release period ;-)
thanks,
greg k-h
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 12:56:02PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Tuesday 01 February 2011 03:45:37 Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 31 January 2011 19:45:32 Greg KH wrote:
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 06:41:34PM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
I have some questions about Tumbleweed.
First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?
I'm still working through this, but it looks like _every_ package will be updated to start with. That's the safest way to get all of the dependancies correct for any future changes that will be needed.
Ok, that's from moving from 11.3 to 11.4, yes? So from 11.4 onwards, are all maintainers going to pick packages for Tumbleweed?
I don't understand, what do you mean by "maintainers going to pick packages"?
What it looks like is going to happen is the WHOLE 11.4 repo will be linked into the openSUSE:Tumbleweed repo and rebuilt. So, if you switch to Tumbleweed, you will end up installing everything again.
Yes, once 11.4 is out. But I would like to know what happens after that - going towards 11.5/12.0? How many packages are 'part of the Tumbleweed initiative', IOW, being kept up to date? How many maintainers have said they will send regular new versions your way?
Ah, that makes more sense.
Eg just the kernel, Xorg and GNOME? Or also LibreOffice, Firefox? is XFCE in? Will we have the latest Wireshark? Python packages? ;-)
I don't really know just yet, it depends on what happens with different upstream development packages, and how "stable" maintainers feel they are. Actually, in thinking about it some more, perhaps it would make more sense to slowly ease things in as they change. It would take more work on my part, but that seems fairer than forcing everything to change all at once. It would get "messy" when things like python or perl get updated, but that's what scripts are for...
Yeah, it's a pain, but it seems like the best way forward at the moment.
And yes, there are alternatives, only picking the packages that change, _and_ the dependancies, and linking them in. But, that will start to drive me crazy very quickly, as it has already when trying to do some updates in the testing repo.
But if people complain that this would be too much, we can do it, it's just more work on my part, which is fair enough.
Nah, I think it's not too bad for the 11.4 release, it's just a bigger download, that's it. Hurts us (our servers & bandwith) more than most of our users, I'd say. And Tumbleweed doesn't have that many yet, I would guess. We should however do better in the future - for someone living in a low-bandwith country like India or Brazil, an upgrade to 11.4 could take several days. And I feel that pain because I will be in Brazil during the release period ;-)
At 11.4 release time, I doubt there will be any changes as not much will be "newer" for Tumbleweed to provide, so you might be fine :) thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Mandag den 31. januar 2011 18:41:34 skrev Jos Poortvliet:
I have some questions about Tumbleweed. Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use
Please only recommend it to geeks, and other people who like to fix things that aren't broken ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 1/31/2011 12:41 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
I have some questions about Tumbleweed.
First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?
Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])
Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed? Eg some tickbox on installation or in our package management system?
Obviously, I love Tumbleweed - for the slightly-more-experienced linux user and for those who love the latest & greatest it is awesome - and this happens to be a pretty big chunk of our target usergroup :D
On a personal note, I also love Tumbleweed because I think rolling-release stuff rocks - I come from Arch and frankly it's the major thing I loved about it.
Cheers, Jos
One question I have about Tumbleweed... how are you going to handle things like Packman for Tumbleweed? -Matt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 02:14:34PM -0500, Matt Hayes wrote:
One question I have about Tumbleweed... how are you going to handle things like Packman for Tumbleweed?
That's up to Packman to work through, and, as of the last conversation we had on this list, they should be able to handle it just fine. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 1/31/2011 2:18 PM, Greg KH wrote:
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 02:14:34PM -0500, Matt Hayes wrote:
One question I have about Tumbleweed... how are you going to handle things like Packman for Tumbleweed?
That's up to Packman to work through, and, as of the last conversation we had on this list, they should be able to handle it just fine.
thanks,
greg k-h
Understood, I missed the other thread apparently. I think this will be a big deal to a lot of users that utilize Packman for stable releases. If those extra packages aren't available to them, then I don't think Tumbleweed will have much of an impact on those types of users is all I'm saying. -Matt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 01/31/2011 12:41 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
I have some questions about Tumbleweed.
First of all, I wonder what the status is and will be. If someone enables Tumbleweed on the upcoming 11.4, is it very likely that most packages will be updated or are we still talking about a small subset?
Second and related to the first question, to what extend should we promote Tumbleweed? Is it a major 11.4 thing? Can we truly say Tumbleweed is something people can and should use, will it offer a pretty-much-complete rolling- release distro? (notice that this is relevant for our "why openSUSE" talking points at [1])
Third, if the answer to the second point is positive, should we make it easy somehow to enable Tumbleweed?
IMHO Yes. Tumbledweed should show up alongside the other community repos when selecting "Community Repositories" after clicking "Add" in the repository manager of YaST. My $0.02 Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 31. Januar 2011 schrieb Robert Schweikert:
IMHO Yes.
Tumbledweed should show up alongside the other community repos when selecting "Community Repositories" after clicking "Add" in the repository manager of YaST. That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.
I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;( Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Am Montag, 31. Januar 2011 schrieb Robert Schweikert:
IMHO Yes.
Tumbledweed should show up alongside the other community repos when selecting "Community Repositories" after clicking "Add" in the repository manager of YaST. That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.
I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(
If we could have Tumbleweed, we could as well have Factory. I believe we should avoid both of them in the community repositories list. We should just give what is applicable for that distro (GNOME:Apps, GNOME:Stable, Firefox, VLC etc.) While we are on the topic of community repositories, most of the community repositories have a name that begins with "openSUSE Buildservice " and then followed by the actual name "KDE:Extra, Mozilla etc." Can we skip the prefix "openSUSE Buildservice - " ? -- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 09:37 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.
I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(
I fear that you are correct here. Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative. -- Cheers Richard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 09:55:44AM +0000, Richard (MQ) wrote:
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 09:37 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.
I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(
I fear that you are correct here.
Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative.
Do you think there is going to be more than one? curious, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 06:04 -0800, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 09:55:44AM +0000, Richard (MQ) wrote:
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 09:37 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
That doesn't make sense - because Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution replacing basic packages.
I have the bad feeling that most people discussing Tumbleweed haven't understood it ;(
I fear that you are correct here.
Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative.
Do you think there is going to be more than one?
curious,
Well, I certainly _hope_ there is going to be more than one. It would be very sad if the idea dies before it gets going. I wish I had the time and skills to do more to help - as with most open-source projects it will depend entirely on how many of the key people want to make it happen. I can't add much beyond testing. Let's hope... -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Am 01.02.2011 15:47, schrieb Richard (MQ):
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 06:04 -0800, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 09:55:44AM +0000, Richard (MQ) wrote:
Maybe we need to define and promote what is really an upgrade path, from a standard release to the associated tumbleweed derivative.
Do you think there is going to be more than one?
curious,
Well, I certainly _hope_ there is going to be more than one. It would be very sad if the idea dies before it gets going.
That's why it seems that it's not clear to everyone what Tumbleweed is. Tumbleweed is not meant to be based on another distribution. It's a new one basically following Factory with delays and skipping the experimental builds inbetween. 11.4 is chosed to get officially started from if I got this correctly. After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on. I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-) Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.
I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)
it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 15:56 +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.
I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)
it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)
OK - "my bad". I had imagined a new one each release, a bit like having ongoing updates. This makes sense (now!), but I am not sure how easy it will be to explain to newbies... I'll duck back down below the parapet again now ;-) -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Le 01/02/2011 16:23, Richard (MQ) a écrit : but I am not sure how easy it will be
to explain to newbies...
always up to date, never need to upgrade to a new distro, always new :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:56 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.
I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)
it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)
jdd
And maybe not even then. Factory goes into freeze for a couple months prior to a release. If a package goes stable in that time, I assume it could go to Tumbleweed during the factory freeze time, and thus Tumbleweed would be ahead of a release even on the very first day. Greg F -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 01 February 2011 16:38:11 Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:56 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.
I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)
it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)
jdd
And maybe not even then. Factory goes into freeze for a couple months prior to a release. If a package goes stable in that time, I assume it could go to Tumbleweed during the factory freeze time, and thus Tumbleweed would be ahead of a release even on the very first day.
+1 That's what a rolling release is. It's why Debian's Unstable or Testing are NOT rolling release distro's (some ppl use them like that). They freeze during debian release freeze time (more like an ice age if you ask me). Tumbleweed will be a true rolling release like Arch and Gentoo offering, but build on top of an easy to use distro. Which means that while I will surely recommend it to more technical users, we WILL get a larger share of not-so- technical users on Tumbleweed than Arch or Gentoo have. We'll therefor also have a bit more of an obligation to make sure it doesn't break in horrible ways, imho.
Greg F
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:56 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 01/02/2011 15:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :
After the branchpoint there is only Tumbleweed and not Tumbleweed-11.4 and later Tumbleweed-11.5 and so on.
I hope I got this correct, Greg ;-)
it's like this I understood :-). Tumbelweed will be in sync with openSUSE at (openSUSE) release time only :-)
And maybe not even then. Factory goes into freeze for a couple months prior to a release. If a package goes stable in that time, I assume
The freeze could be avoided by branching the release earlier though. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Tirsdag den 1. februar 2011 09:37:27 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution
Hence it is "interesting" that the openSUSE community manager wants to promote it >:-) I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore. </rant> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 04:43:01PM +0100, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 1. februar 2011 09:37:27 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution
Hence it is "interesting" that the openSUSE community manager wants to promote it >:-)
I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore.
</rant>
For all that dont write here? Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 01 February 2011 16:43:01 Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 1. februar 2011 09:37:27 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution
Hence it is "interesting" that the openSUSE community manager wants to promote it >:-)
I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore.
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE - and if we manage to use Factory's packages wise and do not divert the developers I don't have a problem with it - far from it. And it may also get us more testing of factory packages in time - just as projects like KDE:Distro:Factory are very popular and bring us early feedback for factory development even though it's used on 11.3 and below. There are of course many challenges ahead for Tumbleweed and I can't help other than giving advise. Greetings, Stephan -- Sent from openSUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE full ack. I´m using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I´m really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.
Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No! I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE. But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn´t_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!) kind regards kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE Kernel-desktop 2.6.34-12& using Tumbleweed This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
To promote Tumbleweed, I think, a live-CD is a the best way. I tried to build one with SUSE Studio. My version: - Based on openSUSE 11.3 with GNOME (I was tired of using KDE only, so I used GNOME.) But I couldn´t include the tumbleweed-repos. Maybe someone other will have more luck..... kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE Kernel-desktop 2.6.34-12& using Tumbleweed This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 07:49:44PM +0100, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
To promote Tumbleweed, I think, a live-CD is a the best way. I tried to build one with SUSE Studio.
My version: - Based on openSUSE 11.3 with GNOME (I was tired of using KDE only, so I used GNOME.)
But I couldn´t include the tumbleweed-repos. Maybe someone other will have more luck.....
You should just have to add them at initial boot time, like other images add them. But that's not really a live-cd at all, tumbleweed is to be installed, not run as a snapshot. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Le mardi 01 février 2011 à 19:49 +0100, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
To promote Tumbleweed, I think, a live-CD is a the best way. I tried to build one with SUSE Studio.
My version: - Based on openSUSE 11.3 with GNOME (I was tired of using KDE only, so I used GNOME.)
But I couldn´t include the tumbleweed-repos. Maybe someone other will have more luck.....
Well, not really Thumbleweed but you can revive the GNOME:Medias gnome-reloaded image, if you want. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@novell.com> Novell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Kim Leyendecker <kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE
full ack. I惴 using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I惴 really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.
Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No!
I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE.
But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn愒_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!)
I believe the goal of Tumbleweed is to be an independent "release". Not an independent "distro". Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now. Greg F -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Le 01/02/2011 20:14, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.
yes, and all the people that don't want the very last product wont have to be bored by other people asking for it. I'm glad Tumbleweed existe *because* I don't need it :-)) no more "I want Gnome 3, delay the distro" troll jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 01 February 2011 22:40:38 jdd wrote:
Le 01/02/2011 20:14, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.
yes, and all the people that don't want the very last product wont have to be bored by other people asking for it.
I'm glad Tumbleweed existe *because* I don't need it :-))
no more "I want Gnome 3, delay the distro" troll
Another good argument why Tumbleweed is awesome :D So it'll be mentioned in the release announcement as a 'feature'.
jdd
Le mardi 01 février 2011 à 22:40 +0100, jdd a écrit :
Le 01/02/2011 20:14, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.
yes, and all the people that don't want the very last product wont have to be bored by other people asking for it.
I'm glad Tumbleweed existe *because* I don't need it :-))
no more "I want Gnome 3, delay the distro" troll
Well, you don't need 11.4 either for GNOME 3, see http://blog.crozat.net/2011/01/gnome-3-live-cd-usb-test-image.html (powered by openSUSE and kiwi / OBS ;) -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@novell.com> Novell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 02:14:04PM -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Kim Leyendecker <kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE
full ack. I惴 using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I惴 really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.
Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No!
I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE.
But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn愒_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!)
I believe the goal of Tumbleweed is to be an independent "release". Not an independent "distro".
It's not a "release" at all, as it's a moving target, constantly changing.
Thus once it is fully rolled, I could upgrade to Tumbleweed once, then just get my rolling upgrades every now and then and not have to change my repositories every 8 months like I do now.
Well, you might still have to change your repo every major release, but that should be pretty trivial overall :) thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 07:46:31PM +0100, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE full ack. I´m using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I´m really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.
Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No!
I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE.
But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn´t_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!)
No, it's not "independant" at all. Neither as a release, or as a distro. Think of it like any other openSUSE repo that you can install on top of a release, it just happens to have a large majority of the other repos already in it. make more sense? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 02/01/2011 07:22 PM, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 07:46:31PM +0100, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 01.02.2011 19:42, schrieb Stephan Kulow:
I think Tumbleweed can bring a new class of users to openSUSE full ack. I´m using Tumbleweed a little bit (see my signature) and I´m really proud that openSUSE have Tumbleweed.
Has Ubuntu a rolling release? No! Has Fedora a rolling release? No! Has Mandriva a rolling release? No!
I think, if Greg and the others manage the project carefully, it will become an important part of openSUSE.
But how says, that Tumbleweed is a _independent_ distro? I ever thought, that it _isn´t_ an independent distro?! (Greg?!)
No, it's not "independant" at all. Neither as a release, or as a distro.
Think of it like any other openSUSE repo that you can install on top of a release, it just happens to have a large majority of the other repos already in it.
So in this spirit, it goes back to my suggestion/request to list the Tumbleweed repo alongside the other community repositories in YaST. Thanks I feel a bit better now that it looks like I am not quite so far out in left field ;) Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Am 02.02.2011 01:22, schrieb Greg KH:
make more sense? Yes! So I understood it times before too. Now is clear....
thanks too kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE Kernel-desktop 2.6.34-12& using Tumbleweed This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 04:43:01PM +0100, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 1. februar 2011 09:37:27 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Tumbleweed is not yet another repo, but an independent distribution
Hence it is "interesting" that the openSUSE community manager wants to promote it >:-)
I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore.
WTF? Are you kidding me? {sigh} Coolo's work is _invaluable_ and essential and with it, there would not be any openSUSE releases. Tumbleweed will build on top of his work, and I hope I can live up to a tiny portion of the skill and determination and persistence that he puts into openSUSE. Without his guidance, and releases, there would not be something called Tumbleweed at all, it just would not be possible. Remember, Tumbleweed is something you install ON TOP OF an openSUSE release. And, in doing some more work with testing today, I think I'm going to have to roll back from my idea of "link the whole thing" and just do it as we have been doing it today, as a project that only includes a few packages to start with on top of the openSUSE released base, and it will grow with time. That's the easiest on the build servers, download mirrors, and most importantly, ease for users to recover if something bad happens. Yes, it will cause more work for me, but overall, that's a much better use of resources. Has anyone who has had questions actually looked at the Tumbleweed entry in the wiki? If so, is it not properly described there? If not, please let me know what questions you have and I will be glad to flesh it out. And lay off the bashing of Coolo, that's just plain rude. You really should be ashamed of yourself. greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Onsdag den 2. februar 2011 01:21:40 skrev Greg KH:
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 04:43:01PM +0100, Martin Schlander wrote:
I wonder if the actual official distribution is top priority for anyone other than coolo in this community anymore.
And lay off the bashing of Coolo, that's just plain rude. You really should be ashamed of yourself.
I was actually bashing just about everyone _except_ coolo - though mostly you and Jos >:-) I _want_ people to have the official distro as the top priority. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (17)
-
Frederic Crozat -
Greg Freemyer -
Greg KH -
jdd -
Jos Poortvliet -
Jos Poortvliet -
Kim Leyendecker -
Ludwig Nussel -
Marcus Meissner -
Martin Schlander -
Matt Hayes -
Richard (MQ) -
Robert Schweikert -
Sankar P -
Stephan Kulow -
Stephan Kulow -
Wolfgang Rosenauer