The actual question to be discussed below is slightly different then the "Why are we here" in the title, but as philosophical and possibly even more important to us.
In this talk https://events.opensuse.org/conference/osc15/proposal/650 it was discussed, that communication is important and that more important than _what_ we are doing and _how_ we are doing it, is _why_ we are doing it. And it is important to put this "why" answer first. All the other stuff is just minor details which follows.
Which brings us back to the important question: Why are we here, or more precisely
_Why are we contributing to free/libre/open source software_ (the openSUSE project and upstream software in our case)
I already asked a few people and got several good reasons:
1) Because I want to help FLOSS to make the world a better place. (related: Because it makes me proud, knowing that many people using it for all kinds of tasks)
2) Because software should be free (since I have already written it, distributing it is free, it is useful to other people and they are even contibuting (ideas and some patches) back)
3) Because I want to use the best (in some of the dimensions of best) software (related: because I do not want to use proprietary software crap)
4) Because I can make it to do what I want.
5) Because there is a Challenge (while doing something that is useful and cool)
6) Because it is Fun
Note: The numbering above is meant to help reference the items and not as a ranking.
Feel free to add other good reasons or tell which ones you like best or add other thoughts on the topic (If you dont feel comfortable discussing this in public, just mail me and I might add it to a later summary)
Ciao Bernhard M.
Le 02/05/2015 11:44, Bernhard M. Wiedemann a écrit :
Feel free to add other good reasons
because I want to repay what open source software gave me...
I'm often said: "I thank you for your help, how can I help you?". Long time ago we discussed a foundation to allow individuals to give money.
My idea is than at the beginning nobody was a Linux user, as no (or nearly no) computer have Linux when sold.
So everybody using and being to use Linux have to begin at some moment. The question is "how can we make it use openSUSE?".
at the question "why should I use Linux" the answer is in the basics, and the most common answers are:
* first you *can* use Linux because it simply works * second using Linux is "friendly": you can share yours applications to your friends, you can prevent your chils from downloading illegally
and why openSUSE? because It's the simpler Linux version available, and because it's the one I can help you the best... because I know it.
people like also the fact that main developers of applications are answering on mailing lists: better speak to god than to the saints...
speaking to parents these two are important jdd
On Samstag, 2. Mai 2015, 11:44:13 wrote Bernhard M. Wiedemann: ...
I already asked a few people and got several good reasons:
...
7) Open Source Operating Systems are the only solution that you can trust your own computer.
8) Only Open Source Development model guarantees that the group or company will keep a fair buisness model in future.
=> 10) Open Source Systems are the minimal requirement for any kind of democracy in future when more and more private data and decisions are processed by computers.
The human society can not survive without open source anymore.
On 2015-05-02 11:44, Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
The actual question to be discussed below is slightly different then the "Why are we here" in the title, but as philosophical and possibly even more important to us.
In this talk https://events.opensuse.org/conference/osc15/proposal/650 it was discussed, that communication is important and that more important than _what_ we are doing and _how_ we are doing it, is _why_ we are doing it. And it is important to put this "why" answer first. All the other stuff is just minor details which follows.
Which brings us back to the important question: Why are we here, or more precisely
_Why are we contributing to free/libre/open source software_ (the openSUSE project and upstream software in our case)
I already asked a few people and got several good reasons:
Because I want to help FLOSS to make the world a better place. (related: Because it makes me proud, knowing that many people using it for all kinds of tasks)
Because software should be free (since I have already written it, distributing it is free, it is useful to other people and they are even contibuting (ideas and some patches) back)
Because I want to use the best (in some of the dimensions of best) software (related: because I do not want to use proprietary software crap)
Because I can make it to do what I want.
Because there is a Challenge (while doing something that is useful and cool)
Because it is Fun
Open Source Operating Systems are the only solution that you can trust your own computer.
Only Open Source Development model guarantees that the group or company will keep a fair buisness model in future.
=> 10) Open Source Systems are the minimal requirement for any kind of democracy in future when more and more private data and decisions are processed by computers.
The human society can not survive without open source anymore.
Because I can look inside, understand and modify it.
Because it gives me Privacy and Safety
Because it is interesting for the choice of tools and language.
Because it is empowering
Because I want Continuity: Software stays around and can not be discontinued
Because you get respect from people reading your code
Because of the ability to build upon - standing on the shoulders of giants.
Because I want to repay what open source software gave me. (same: Because I want to give back.)
Because it looks good on my CV and makes it easier to get a good job.
Because it feels good to collaborate to get something done
Because it is good to share things
Because OSS projects are more efficient (with many reviews to get rid of bugs)
Because I like socialism (because solving a problem once is more economic) related: Because I do not want effort to be wasted on developing software twice.
Because I feel part of it and I can interact with people.
Because it allows to learn from each other
Many good reasons I would like to see on a future www.opensuse.org site.
Ciao Bernhard M.
On Tuesday 02 June 2015 13:00:38 Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
Many good reasons I would like to see on a future www.opensuse.org site.
These are indeed a lot of good reasons to work on open source software. But I would also like to ask, what is the why behind openSUSE, which is specific to openSUSE and can't be done by contributing to any other of the many projects which are out there? The answers to this question is what I think should be in the center of what we present on the web site as the purpose of the project.
On Tuesday, June 02, 2015 02:27:02 PM Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
what is the why behind openSUSE, which is specific to openSUSE and can't be done by contributing to any other of the many projects which are out there?
OK, this is my reason: in 2015 I find openSUSE a sweet spot between freedom, easy to contribute (thanks to OBS), quality (thanks to the skills and knowledge of current contributors and openQA) and blending edge (thanks to the new Factory/Tumbleweed)
This equilibrium is per se quite an achievement, and I choose free source because Bernhard's reason, and openSUSE because this achievement.
On Tuesday 2015-06-02 14:37, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Tuesday, June 02, 2015 02:27:02 PM Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
what is the why behind openSUSE, which is specific to openSUSE and can't be done by contributing to any other of the many projects which are out there?
OK, this is my reason: in 2015 I find openSUSE a sweet spot between freedom, easy to contribute (thanks to OBS) [...]
Moreover, openSUSE is not so "uptight". A new user can register, immediately submit a package and even maintain it. No lengthy process like becoming a Debian developer first, or the Bugzilla forth-and-back typical of new Fedora packages. :)
Maybe this can be attributed to the larger modus operandi where maintainers accept nonideal submissions anyway and just quickly fix issues up rather asking to re-spin a submission just because The Bikeshed Standard was oversought in some place (the latter is a problem which the upstream Linux kernel project suffers a lot from).
On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Alberto Planas aplanas@suse.de wrote:
On Tuesday, June 02, 2015 02:27:02 PM Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
what is the why behind openSUSE, which is specific to openSUSE and can't be done by contributing to any other of the many projects which are out there?
OK, this is my reason: in 2015 I find openSUSE a sweet spot between freedom, easy to contribute (thanks to OBS), quality (thanks to the skills and knowledge of current contributors and openQA) and blending edge (thanks to the new Factory/Tumbleweed)
This equilibrium is per se quite an achievement, and I choose free source because Bernhard's reason, and openSUSE because this achievement.
I agree very much with the above except for me the "blending edge" is something achieved by OBS and the myriad of devel repositories. I very much like the concept of the new Tumbleweed, but I am not yet a Tumbleweed user and I don't know if I ever will be. It depends on what the future holds for the formal releases and for Tumbleweed's stability.
For me OBS and the contribution mechanisms supported by OBS is 2 legs of the 3-legged stool. Quality (current contributors and openQA) is the third leg.
Greg
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On 2015-06-02 14:27, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
On Tuesday 02 June 2015 13:00:38 Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
Many good reasons I would like to see on a future www.opensuse.org site.
These are indeed a lot of good reasons to work on open source software. But I would also like to ask, what is the why behind openSUSE, which is specific to openSUSE and can't be done by contributing to any other of the many projects which are out there? The answers to this question is what I think should be in the center of what we present on the web site as the purpose of the project.
Somehow I feel that ~90% of the worth of what we ship in the openSUSE distribution comes from upstream code which sort of makes all those many upstream developers contributors to openSUSE, even without them knowing it.
Thus I do not think we need to limit us to "unique selling points" (German: Alleinstellungsmerkmale) (which IMHO is an awful concept from sales people) of openSUSE.
We should tell the people why we are good not why we are better (than X).
Let's tell the world, that we do this because it is easy and fun to contribute to openSUSE, even though it might also be fun with Archlinux or whatever else.
have a lot of phun Bernhard M.
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On 06/05/2015 09:07 AM, Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
On 2015-06-02 14:27, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
On Tuesday 02 June 2015 13:00:38 Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
Many good reasons I would like to see on a future www.opensuse.org site.
These are indeed a lot of good reasons to work on open source software. But I would also like to ask, what is the why behind openSUSE, which is specific to openSUSE and can't be done by contributing to any other of the many projects which are out there? The answers to this question is what I think should be in the center of what we present on the web site as the purpose of the project.
Somehow I feel that ~90% of the worth of what we ship in the openSUSE distribution comes from upstream code which sort of makes all those many upstream developers contributors to openSUSE, even without them knowing it.
Thus I do not think we need to limit us to "unique selling points" (German: Alleinstellungsmerkmale) (which IMHO is an awful concept from sales people) of openSUSE.
We should tell the people why we are good not why we are better (than X).
Let's tell the world, that we do this because it is easy and fun to contribute to openSUSE, even though it might also be fun with Archlinux or whatever else.
Agreed
- -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
On Friday 05 June 2015 15:07:23 Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
We should tell the people why we are good not why we are better (than X).
This is not about telling people why we are better, but about distilling what is our specific purpose. What really drives us is not a random choice of openSUSE as one project where you can do free software, but the things others have said in this thread, like the right balance between open contribution model, quality, and freshness, the spirit of tools such as OBS and openQA, etc.
A why needs to be specific, otherwise it doesn't give purpose, direction, and motivation, and that's what this "starting with why" thing is all about.
Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
On 2015-05-02 11:44, Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
The actual question to be discussed below is slightly different then the "Why are we here" in the title, but as philosophical and possibly even more important to us.
In this talk https://events.opensuse.org/conference/osc15/proposal/650 it was discussed, that communication is important and that more important than _what_ we are doing and _how_ we are doing it, is _why_ we are doing it. And it is important to put this "why" answer first. All the other stuff is just minor details which follows.
Which brings us back to the important question: Why are we here, or more precisely
_Why are we contributing to free/libre/open source software_ (the openSUSE project and upstream software in our case)
I already asked a few people and got several good reasons:
Because I want to help FLOSS to make the world a better place. (related: Because it makes me proud, knowing that many people using it for all kinds of tasks)
Because software should be free (since I have already written it, distributing it is free, it is useful to other people and they are even contibuting (ideas and some patches) back)
Because I want to use the best (in some of the dimensions of best) software (related: because I do not want to use proprietary software crap)
Because I can make it to do what I want.
Because there is a Challenge (while doing something that is useful and cool)
Because it is Fun
- Open Source Operating Systems are the only solution that you can
trust your own computer.
- Only Open Source Development model guarantees that the group or
company will keep a fair buisness model in future.
=> 10) Open Source Systems are the minimal requirement for any kind of democracy in future when more and more private data and decisions are processed by computers.
The human society can not survive without open source anymore.Because I can look inside, understand and modify it.
Because it gives me Privacy and Safety
Because it is interesting for the choice of tools and language.
Because it is empowering
Because I want Continuity: Software stays around and can not be discontinued
Because you get respect from people reading your code
Because of the ability to build upon - standing on the shoulders of giants.
Because I want to repay what open source software gave me. (same: Because I want to give back.)
Because it looks good on my CV and makes it easier to get a good job.
Because it feels good to collaborate to get something done
Because it is good to share things
Because OSS projects are more efficient (with many reviews to get rid of bugs)
Because I like socialism (because solving a problem once is more economic) related: Because I do not want effort to be wasted on developing software twice.
Because I feel part of it and I can interact with people.
Because it allows to learn from each other
I did read your list when you posted it a week ago, and I thought - "yep, that's pretty good stuff".
Having re-read your list after one or two other postings referring me back here, I have to say - those are good reasons for participating in _any_ open source project. It could be apache, dosemu, postfix, hercules/390 or etherboot.
However, the context clearly implies "here" == "opensuse", and why we are building openSUSE is a different question. For instance, about 15 years ago, I wrote a pile of floating point code for hercules/390. IIRC, my reasons were:
* need - because I wanted to run java on os/390. * ability - because I could and had the expertise * availability - because nobody else had done it. * vanity - because I wanted recognition as a contributor
With openSUSE, I see it differently. Here I am merely a small cog in a large machine that produces openSUSE. I am here because openSUSE is my distribution of choice. I don't mind being just a small cog doing my bit, but it's a significant difference.
-
Adrian Schröter -
Alberto Planas -
Bernhard M. Wiedemann -
Cornelius Schumacher -
Greg Freemyer -
Jan Engelhardt -
jdd -
Per Jessen -
Robert Schweikert