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On 06/09/2015 03:08 PM, Chuck Payne wrote:
I can't reply to the email because it bonuses all my e-mail, what sucks is it only openSUSE mailing, I am on 40 linux/user group mailing list, but I wanted to input this
Please to we really have to regurgitate this:
http://email.about.com/od/gmailtips/qt/How-To-Send-A-Message-In-Plain-Te xt-From-Gmail.htm
Set gmail to send text messages instead of html and voila all is well.
Everyone,
I am still active,
Thanks
and I didn't vote because of time.
Fair enough, but I'd like to understand the time factor in more detail. Let me make some rough estimates and assumptions to start the conversation and then people can elaborate where my estimations are off the wall. Hopefully we can learn from this process how we can make the voting and campaigning process more time friendly.
On average we have lets maybe 3 or 4 people running for positions on the board. However to tend more towards the higher end lets assume we have 10 candidates for this rough estimation. Given that one wants to make an educated decision it is probably fair to say that a voter wants to read the information candidates make available about themselves, e-mail and platform page. For the most part this is usually relatively short, thus lets estimate that it will take about 15 minutes to read through the information.
With 10 candidates that would be a time investment of 2.5 hours. For arguments sake one could say that it takes 1/2 hour to read about each candidate which then amount to a 5 hour time investment. From beginning to end our campaigning plus voting time period is probably on the order of 4 weeks or more.
With the basic assumptions above it is reasonably straight forward to calculate that the time investment is roughly 5 to 6 minutes a day over the voting/campaigning period, or double that if we assume it takes 30 minutes to read about each candidate. The voting process itself is also no more than a 5 minute affair.
Thus my question is, is it too much for members to spend 5 or 10 minutes a day over a period of 4 weeks to figure out who the member thinks should be on the board?
So, lets see how this estimation holds up. Maybe I am way off and trying to decide turns out to be a big time sink for people. That would possibly warrant a change in approach. Maybe candidates need to have a podcast as their platform so people can listen to it in the cars or whenever reading and typing is not an option.
I don't like this
What do you mean with "this"?
You do not like - - the idea of monitoring general activity - - checking who votes - - sending automated e-mails to perceived inactive members
because I think you are going to remove some people that are working but not vocal like me.
Well the original proposal from Michal has a very simple "we made a mistake" reinstatement option, thus getting back into the pool of voters is a short e-mail away.
I take care of the Facebook pages and I go around Atlanta, GA talking about openSUSE.
Thanks you for your efforts.
Later, Robert
- -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
Le 10/06/2015 02:04, Robert Schweikert a écrit :
With the basic assumptions above it is reasonably straight forward to calculate that the time investment is roughly 5 to 6 minutes a day
may be when you don't previously know the candidate, you have to make a bit more than reading the platform to learn about it?
un derstanding who is who is not trivial. but this is what voting is: not always easy.
but anyway, if the vote would become mandatory, adding a "blank" option solve the problem
jdd
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On 2015-06-10 08:58, jdd wrote:
may be when you don't previously know the candidate, you have to make a bit more than reading the platform to learn about it?
un derstanding who is who is not trivial. but this is what voting is: not always easy.
There is no press, no media coverage and commentaries. We can't go read the morning paper and read the last achievements and scandals :-P
LOL ;-)
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 06/09/2015 03:08 PM, Chuck Payne wrote:
and I didn't vote because of time.
Fair enough, but I'd like to understand the time factor in more detail. Let me make some rough estimates and assumptions to start the conversation and then people can elaborate where my estimations are off the wall. Hopefully we can learn from this process how we can make the voting and campaigning process more time friendly.
On average we have lets maybe 3 or 4 people running for positions on the board. However to tend more towards the higher end lets assume we have 10 candidates for this rough estimation. Given that one wants to make an educated decision it is probably fair to say that a voter wants to read the information candidates make available about themselves, e-mail and platform page. For the most part this is usually relatively short, thus lets estimate that it will take about 15 minutes to read through the information.
Too long. How about the (in)famous 3minute "elevator pitch" ? 15minutes is too much about someone I ought to have a minimum impression of already. If I don't know the person at all, I'm highly unlikely to vote for him/her anyway. ("know" = have seen/met on the mailing list several times over the years).
Thus my question is, is it too much for members to spend 5 or 10 minutes a day over a period of 4 weeks to figure out who the member thinks should be on the board?
Yes, it probably is. The openSUSE board election is not important enough for me to schedule a daily 10min in my calendar :-)
The voting process should be over in 30 minutes - I look at the candidates, ignore the ones I don't know, read the profiles of those I do know, and by then I will have an idea how I will vote.
On 10.06.2015 09:46, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 06/09/2015 03:08 PM, Chuck Payne wrote:
and I didn't vote because of time.
Fair enough, but I'd like to understand the time factor in more detail. Let me make some rough estimates and assumptions to start the conversation and then people can elaborate where my estimations are off the wall. Hopefully we can learn from this process how we can make the voting and campaigning process more time friendly.
On average we have lets maybe 3 or 4 people running for positions on the board. However to tend more towards the higher end lets assume we have 10 candidates for this rough estimation. Given that one wants to make an educated decision it is probably fair to say that a voter wants to read the information candidates make available about themselves, e-mail and platform page. For the most part this is usually relatively short, thus lets estimate that it will take about 15 minutes to read through the information.
Too long. How about the (in)famous 3minute "elevator pitch" ?
3 minute elevators? What building is that? :)
Greetings, Stephan
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Robert Schweikert rjschwei@suse.com wrote:
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On 06/09/2015 03:08 PM, Chuck Payne wrote:
I can't reply to the email because it bonuses all my e-mail, what sucks is it only openSUSE mailing, I am on 40 linux/user group mailing list, but I wanted to input this
Please to we really have to regurgitate this:
http://email.about.com/od/gmailtips/qt/How-To-Send-A-Message-In-Plain-Te xt-From-Gmail.htm
Set gmail to send text messages instead of html and voila all is well.
Ok, I think I got that fixed.
Everyone,
I am still active,
Thanks
and I didn't vote because of time.
I just got divorce and I am the only computer guy at my company. Because of that my title is Infrastructure Engineer. We are going at a rate that I will have to clone myself. We are redesigning our network because we have grow so quick. I
When the election came up, I saw the e-mails, because of everything going on, I looked up and they are over.
Because of the issue with mail, I never could voice my opinion about who was running, trust me I think there a few better people, but that is for next time. But I haven't stop going around talking about openSUSE linux.
I almost quit the Southeast Linux Fest because I want to give more time to openSUSE. Lucky because I been with the guys as an openSUSE advocate/ambassador and community manager they were will to work with me. I got a table for free and out of my own pocket I have bought a couple of Dell optiplex 755 SM that I can take to show and set up, instead of my laptop. I also bought usb drives to give away with KDE Live disc on it, and burn DVD.
Fair enough, but I'd like to understand the time factor in more detail. Let me make some rough estimates and assumptions to start the conversation and then people can elaborate where my estimations are off the wall. Hopefully we can learn from this process how we can make the voting and campaigning process more time friendly.
On average we have lets maybe 3 or 4 people running for positions on the board. However to tend more towards the higher end lets assume we have 10 candidates for this rough estimation. Given that one wants to make an educated decision it is probably fair to say that a voter wants to read the information candidates make available about themselves, e-mail and platform page. For the most part this is usually relatively short, thus lets estimate that it will take about 15 minutes to read through the information.
With 10 candidates that would be a time investment of 2.5 hours. For arguments sake one could say that it takes 1/2 hour to read about each candidate which then amount to a 5 hour time investment. From beginning to end our campaigning plus voting time period is probably on the order of 4 weeks or more.
With the basic assumptions above it is reasonably straight forward to calculate that the time investment is roughly 5 to 6 minutes a day over the voting/campaigning period, or double that if we assume it takes 30 minutes to read about each candidate. The voting process itself is also no more than a 5 minute affair.
Thus my question is, is it too much for members to spend 5 or 10 minutes a day over a period of 4 weeks to figure out who the member thinks should be on the board?
So, lets see how this estimation holds up. Maybe I am way off and trying to decide turns out to be a big time sink for people. That would possibly warrant a change in approach. Maybe candidates need to have a podcast as their platform so people can listen to it in the cars or whenever reading and typing is not an option.
I don't like this
What do you mean with "this"?
I don't like this because someone like me who has been working but can't voice it would have gotten drop. It bad enough for the past seven years I been fighting a good fight here in Atlanta, GA for openSUSE with no love. I have changed a lot of minds here. My friends know that I am very serious about openSUSE. I have change so maybe people, that where I work people are using it over Ubuntu. I am now the community manager of ALE-NW group because they know from talking about openSUSE. People no longer come up to me and tell, I hate openSUSE. Now I get, "Hey, I tried openSUSE from that live disc you gave me. I like it. KDE so great with it." Or "I tried it but I am having issues with X, can you help me." Jim Henderson love me for this, I point them to our forums. So I don't think a member should monitor by voting.
I do try to come on irc when I have my hotspot with me and my person laptop. I love to come to the meeting but they are always at time we are having meeting.
You do not like
- the idea of monitoring general activity
- checking who votes
- sending automated e-mails to perceived inactive members
because I think you are going to remove some people that are working but not vocal like me.
Well the original proposal from Michal has a very simple "we made a mistake" reinstatement option, thus getting back into the pool of voters is a short e-mail away.
Ok, mistake are made but to some it like a slap in the face when you are trying. Again goes to my point above.
I take care of the Facebook pages and I go around Atlanta, GA talking about openSUSE.
Thanks you for your efforts.
By the way, Robert I feel from you snub by you. A couple of years ago when I help out with openSUSE summit and got key note speaker, and never saw anything on the list for a thanks or a note to me for help. I ask for a shirt, was told there weren't any, even then you didn't say thanks. If you did say something or send a note, I am sorry. I was going to raise this a vote against you for the board, because that was a slap to me. I am very close to Mykel Alvis when out on a limb to ask him to speak. He told me he had a great time. I was sad to see there wasn't one after that, because I would have helped out again.
Later, Robert
Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2
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On 06/10/2015 08:49 AM, Chuck Payne wrote: <snip>
By the way, Robert I feel from you snub by you. A couple of years ago when I help out with openSUSE summit and got key note speaker, and never saw anything on the list for a thanks or a note to me for help. I ask for a shirt, was told there weren't any, even then you didn't say thanks. If you did say something or send a note, I am sorry. I was going to raise this a vote against you for the board, because that was a slap to me. I am very close to Mykel Alvis when out on a limb to ask him to speak. He told me he had a great time. I was sad to see there wasn't one after that, because I would have helped out again.
OK since this is now becoming personal let me just say this, I guess I feel the need to defend myself and so I will. But I will not get into a contest here of who did what....
1.) If I truly forgot to thank you for your efforts, I AM SORRY. - having forgotten would be out of character and is unlikely, but let me apologize anyway
A bit of e-mail history:
"""" On 06/10/2013 05:18 PM, Chuck Payne wrote:
I spoke with Mykel Alvis. I will get you his talk and company. The talk that he does is great, he has spoke at SELF and Puppet Camp.
Great. Thanks Robert """"
In an e-mail sent to the summit list on 06/11/2013 """" ....
Chuck may have found us a Keynote speaker :)
.... """"
I guess I should have capitalized the "THANKS" and should have mentioned your effort about getting the keynote speaker more often. SORR Y
2.) THANKS YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO FOR openSUSE, including helping with the openSUSE Summit in Orlando a couple of years ago.
3.) We did not print any shirts, no one received a shirt, none could be purchase a shirt simply because there were none. However, if it is very important to you to receive a material reward for your efforts I will figure something out and get it to you. Please send me your address in a private e-mail.
Later, Robert
- -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
Le 10/06/2015 14:49, Chuck Payne a écrit :
I don't like this because someone like me who has been working but can't voice it would have gotten drop.
It's why I ask people to fill the personal wiki page, at least with a link to a blog or anything showing what you do.
If we have to verify any people work as first membership of any other, we have to find something.
As a member of the membership team, I now it's very difficult to have let only a small idea of the work somebody do.
I know of a friend of me that have booth from more than ten years now for suse/openSUSE and his membership was refused because this was not internet visible... so, chuck, you are not alone :-(
jdd
On Wednesday, June 10, 2015 04:22:43 PM jdd wrote:
Le 10/06/2015 14:49, Chuck Payne a écrit :
I don't like this because someone like me who has been working but can't voice it would have gotten drop.
It's why I ask people to fill the personal wiki page, at least with a link to a blog or anything showing what you do.
If we have to verify any people work as first membership of any other, we have to find something.
As a member of the membership team, I now it's very difficult to have let only a small idea of the work somebody do.
I know of a friend of me that have booth from more than ten years now for suse/openSUSE and his membership was refused because this was not internet visible... so, chuck, you are not alone :-(
We need to make differences between membership and collaborating. You could be a volunteer, collaborative person, or leader with no membership, right?
What does make you a member? It goes a little bit further. It is some kind of spiritual commitment to openSUSE Project guiding principles https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles
It could be said, evolving from collaborative acts to the renewed commitment to defend the openSUSE Projects by clarifying or promoting facts ( wide interpretation ).
Why is so important to dismiss people from membership? Do you think having an alias for your irc or mail is a strong motivation to keep attached to openSUSE Project? Dismissing people will bring new volunteers, collaborators, leaders? Do we need to release a space on membership database?
I am sure there are plenty people who works with no recognition or rewards. There is another face on the coin, people who need rewards to act. They are not always on one side or another. The side they move depends on the tasks they perform and the resources they bring on. How we will be able to identify what we need and what they need, when and where?
Regards,
Hello,
Am Dienstag, 9. Juni 2015 schrieb Robert Schweikert:
With 10 candidates that would be a time investment of 2.5 hours. For arguments sake one could say that it takes 1/2 hour to read about each candidate which then amount to a 5 hour time investment.
Agreed so far.
From beginning to end our campaigning plus voting time period is probably on the order of 4 weeks or more.
With the basic assumptions above it is reasonably straight forward to calculate that the time investment is roughly 5 to 6 minutes a day over the voting/campaigning period,
Your calculation is technically correct, but it doesn't work this way - at least for me ;-)
I read the wiki pages / blog articles / whatever of all candidates _in one go_ (usually with a browser tab per candidate). When I've read everything, I decide and vote.
That means I need some hours in one go, not 5 minutes a day. It also means I need a day with some hours of free time. (And yes, I found that time and did vote. ;-)
I'd say you can compare this to programming or fixing a bug - if you work on it 5 minutes a day, you basically can start your editor and maybe fix a typo.
If you sum up those daily 5 minutes for a month, you have 2.5 hours - and in that time you actually get some work done.
Regards,
Christian Boltz
-
Carlos E. R. -
Christian Boltz -
Chuck Payne -
jdd -
Per Jessen -
Rick Chung -
Robert Schweikert -
Stephan Kulow