-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 06/14/2015 03:35 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
On 14 June 2015 at 21:20, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
YasT also appears to be in the hands of SUSE. The xen stuff also seem to be mostly handled by SUSE staff.
Add to that bugzilla triage. Kernel stuff. The recent push of version 43. systemd. I usually spend my time on internals stuff, which is where I see SUSE staff. I should go check by bugzilla list and see how many issues have solutions provided by people without a @suse.{com,de,cz} address.
We're talking about 'control' here..are SUSE 'in charge'? Does SUSE hinder 'the ability for the community to do stuff'.
You are listing a number of examples where SUSE are doing a great deal of work, yes, but you're misrepresenting the situation if you are implying that just because SUSE are doing it, then ONLY SUSE are the ones who are allowed or able to do it.
Taking for example Yast
YaST has it's own website, with its own guide on how to contribute: http://yast.github.io/
The source is in Github
The entire team use #yast in Freenode as their day-to-day communication medium and do NOT use any internal SUSE IRC server
They could not be _more_ open If people want to contribute to YaST, they can, they just need to!
Bugzilla triage - likewise, nothing is preventing non-SUSE people from contributing. Bugzilla is there, the openSUSE bugs are listed, they can be triaged. There's no barriers, policies, or ACL's in the way.
openSUSE:42 - the whole discussion so far, whichever side of the debate you're on, ultimately boils down to an invitation to *anyone* to either work on the new way of doing regular releases, or to pickup the work on the old way of doing regular releases (because the people who used to do it are announcing their intention to work on the new idea)
I am not certain I would call it an "invitation" but in principal that is the way its is. The release manager that we have and that happens to get paid by SUSE is now going to build a distribution around SLES sources. As a contributor he has every right, just like everyone else, to work on what ever is interesting to him or whatever his employer feels like he should be working on. Why is it that we in the openSUSE community would expect this stuff should work differently for us than it does in any other open source project? How many contributions are there in the kernel from @intel.com e-mail addresses that fix issues on ARM? I bet very few if any. SUSE thinks that there is benefit to have a release based around the SLES sources. Lengthy and reasonable arguments have been made that this also happens to be a benefit to the openSUSE project. I agree there is benefit. Yes, you can look up every response I wrote in those threads and in case it is not obvious I think this is not a good idea. Well, the concept of :42 has it's target audience, and in and of itself is a good idea. But from my perspective we are vacating the middle of the spectrum by not having the current release model continue and I do not like it! However, I stated my case, the decision has been made and I cannot and do not expect that anyone else will do my bidding. It is now time to put up or shut up. If a yearly Factory snapshot based release is so important to me, and others, I/we can learn what it takes to build a release in OBS and do the work, or I can decide to get over it and use :42, or I can choose to use something else entirely. No one is being forced to do anything they don't want to just because the release manager decided that he would rather spend his time building something new. Equal rights for all contributors no matter who their employer is. Do the work and decide. Personally at this point I will contribute the packages that handle guest initialization in the cloud to :42 that I maintain and will contribute to building cloud guest images and getting them published. I don't think I will contribute the command line tool packages to :42. Anyone else is of course free to do so. :42 will certainly be enabled as a build target in all project where I have sufficient standing to do so. It is each maintainers choice what and how much they are willing to contribute to :42. There is no one standing on a podium shouting "do it or else". Neither will there be anyone that says "You cannot do it" if a team does form to produce a yearly release based on Factory snapshots.
systemd - There are contributors like Jan Englehart working on it in addition to the SUSE employed maintainers
Yes, and I would say that systemd has actually turned into a perfect example about how things can/should work. People were not happy about sitting on an old upstream version with tons of patches applied. Thus, they went and did something about it. Now we have a recent upstream tarball in Factory and fewer patches. It took a while, as those that were getting involved had a learning curve to go through but there was no one from SUSE or other that said, "no you cannot do that"
Kernel - even our kenel package has changelogs from this year from non @suse.com email addresses
So, please, stop perpetuating the myth that SUSE are somehow in control and preventing the community from doing stuff as part of the openSUSE Project. It's wrong, and it's not helpful.
Agreed. One thing that interests me in this direction is however, why people, even people that have been involved in openSUSE for a long time, still have the perception/feeling that if they do something they have to compete/fight with people that have @suse.com e-mail addresses? Why is it so hard to ignore who signs people's paycheck? Yes, as Richard outlined, in the early goings of the project it was very important, but have the actions over the past 10 years, the opening of the project, the reduction of barriers to entry,.... not shown that openSUSE is an open project where all contributions are welcome and appreciated? At some point we have to let the stuff that happened 6,7,8, years ago be water under the bridge and focus on the state of the project now. The state is that our guiding principles are very much the way we can and should be working together and that there is no over-lord that is going to make absolute decisions. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVfwVkAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkXAYH/2pu32XXafrzIGUMzNFcBPMS vvnfOULCC61bnjLk65lTfWnC296THL9xwLoc8uuhhWb9bfm5p/VINmPMxT/HLPer v3NC7V0c/A79V5Do/SDymdDFXn0eD+SdJGc20lMNaSB861Y9I2Yr7z4FwpZMjm1u K0U7UcHTjY0y6EEs2zl6fwX+wlIHwO1WZXgxom0Arz75uSaaLmw3kPn5P4UexFNN rqoXuYjcVt954C8YYipVnoewvIHCwOfT1ymmhi/JW5/SRhK3EXWRg16d1mpAN5ds BaVO/mtss78JLUMANGonQTL9SpOlIPvzdBbSFBaZCFzS4gcKu8m7Y5tOn2pUOBY= =KWGN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org