Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 06/16/2015 02:51 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
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On 06/14/2015 02:41 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
> On Thu, 2015-06-11 at 20:45 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
>> To maintain a living, thriving community, the community has
>> to be in charge, completely. The community has to have
>> complete ownership of their "baby". In my opinion, that is
>> not situation at openSUSE. I am deliberately not judging
>> whether that is good or bad, I am just observing.
Sorry about my late response, on the weekend my priorities are
> In which parts is this not the case?
All the admin for instance. Is anyone in the community
running bugzilla for instance?
No, does anyone care to?
Over the years, I am pretty certain I have offered to do admin a
number at least twice. Not bugzilla specifically, anything really.
I have also proposed donating hardware to e.g. OBS, but that's not
acceptable either unless it comes delivered by truck or in the form
of a cheque.
Yes, a "drop it off" arrangement would be difficult, but I am pretty
certain we could cover the shipping cost with "local reimbursement"
money, then the hardware would get delivered with a truck ;)
I understand that the "local reimbursement" program was suspended for
a while, but it is back and it should be used for things that benefit
AFAIR, it's been quite a while since I made that proposal. I think my
main initial intention/suggestion was to donate cycles, but when that
wasn't possible/accepted, I suggested donating some physical servers
that were being decommissioned. The cost in commercially shipping
500kg of 2nd hand computer hardware across an EU/non-EU border just
didn't make it feasible at the time. I think the suggested alternative
was "buy us some new servers instead" :-)
Maintaining infrastructure does not only cost money
hardware, it also takes people to maintain it. If you find a
sponsor that is willing to host all the machines and hand over
the keys to the data center I doubt there would be a big revolt
We know "it also takes people to maintain it", yet volunteers from
the community are not accepted.
Yes, for certain levels this is correct. Again, no one should expect
that SUSE will hand over the keys to the data center.
Completely appreciated and understood. Now, how about the other levels?
There is not a board meeting I can remember where we
talked about turning off things that are not maintained at the
TBH, I don't recall seeing that in the minutes ever. My mistake,
I'll have to reread them.
- From the meeting minutes of the board face to face meeting last
6. Meeting with Lars
I have to comment - I see those minutes were posted to
, but I don't see them
posted to the opensuse-project mailing list where project meeting
minutes usually go. Maybe my mistake, but I honestly can't be bothered
to go polling miscellaneous websites to find stuff to do. Just as I
don't go looking for opensuse "announcements" on people's personal
--> openSUSE communication issue.
[snip - totally relevant]
+ It is perceived by Lars that one problem of the lack
infrastructure maintainership is the lack of experience/knowledge
Plus a complete lack of call for help.
Lars and his team are available to mentor people that
in maintaining an openSUSE infrastructure service
Sorry the cut and past is ugly, I did try to make it little more
I detest web design/work, but a part from that, I could probably have
helped with some of those issues. Quite honestly, it sounds like a
classic example of inept openSUSE communication. No calls for help, no
request for a new maintainer, minutes only posted to a website.
--> openSUSE communication issue.
There are guidelines where anyone can run stuff for
and get root access to a VM. Lars has given talks about this at
oSC over the last couple of years. Yet, no one has stepped up to
actually do the work.
Where is the todo-list where one can sign up? As I said, I am
pretty certain I have offered my help more than once.
I'll hook you up with Lars and team in a separate e-mail. Thank you.
I'm looking forward to that, we'll see if there's anything I can do.
Things have changed, as I said, we need to let water
under the bridge
be exactly that.
You're probably right, but a few "no thanks" are, well, difficult to
just shake off.
We cannot conjure up non SUSE contributors to YaST.
All the YaST team/SUSE can do is lower the barriers to entry. I would
claim this has been done, very successfully from my point of view.
I agree completely. Unfortunately, I don't speak ruby. Had ycp been
converted to C instead, you would quite likely have seen a few patches
(instead of bugreports) from me.
There have also been numerous announcements on the
YaST list, sorry
for not digging those up right now, about modules that will no longer
be maintained by the YaST team and that need new owners, similar to
the "packages for sale" announcements that happen on -packages from
time to time.
Yes, I have seen those - I remember ISDN/ADSL/PPPoe support going for
instance. 5-6-7 years ago I would have been happy to work those, but
both technologies are being phased out. I moved off ADSL 3 years ago,
ISDN is scheduled for decommissioning end of 2017. I have the
hardware, both ADSL and ISDN interface cards available if anyone is
It would be nice to get rid off these misconceptions
More openness and transparency would be probably help a lot, but
that's a broken record if I've ever heard one.
Agreed it is a broken record, but apparently what ever is being done,
that is perceived by some to provide more transparency and openness is
not helping, and not received as such. Or the information is not being
made available in a timely sufficiently loud messaging campaign. Thus,
my suggestion would be to provide concrete examples and not just say
"more transparency", rather say, "it would be nice if we could get
more information about why YaST is SUSE owned as far as commits and
maintenance is concerned". Someone can respond to that question with
detailed answers and hopefully provide the transparency needed.
It's getting to be a bit late in the day here, I'd like to get back to
that one tomorrow.
Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C)
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