Hello, Am Sonntag, 21. April 2019, 01:02:09 CEST schrieb Stasiek Michalski:
On sob, Apr 20, 2019 at 8:30 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 at 00:24, Stasiek Michalski wrote: ... The Heroes are a few, and exceptionally good at what they do, working in difficult circumstances. I said, I don't want openSUSE to be dependant on such exceptional few.
In other words: The Heroes are always happy to welcome more helping hands ;-)
worst of all, they don't have access to some critical stuff, like bugzilla-o-o, forums-o-o, www-o-o, instead relying on Micro Focus to manage that properly.
Indeed, but all the incidents tracked since at least December on status.opensuse.org involve systems that don't rely on MicroFocus.
Yes, but that doesn't show the whole story. First of all, status.o.o gets updated manually, which means it's incomplete and/or not always up to date. Typically we first try to fix things, and only if it turns out that the problem is serious and there will be a longer downtime, we add a note to status.o.o. In some cases we even forget to add such a note - worst thing that can happen in this case is that we can get a few additional tickets about the broken service ;-) Second, and that is an example that confirms my first point, I sent a nice "URGENT: forums.opensuse.org down" mail to the MF admins in february ;-) - luckily they acted faster than usual. I could list some more things from my mail archive that didn't make it to status.o.o. Third, there are some longstanding issues that are not too user-visible (and therefore not listed on status.o.o), but still annoying. For example, since (AFAIK) a load balancer in Provo got replaced, *.o.o services hosted in Provo (www, bugzilla, forums, news, lizards) send out an "evil cookie" for *.o.o with a name strange enough to let some safety checks in other services bail out. This broke paste.o.o (which got the check removed in the meantime as a "fix") and still breaks some heroes- internal services, which means we have to use in a private browser window as a workaround. I'd have to look up when the "evil cookies" started, but I'm sure they already celebrated their first birthday. Of course there are open tickets with MF-IT for that and some other things I didn't mention, but in many cases, these tickets are in bitrotting mode for a *very* long time :-( On the positive side, I've seen a few surprisingly fast responses for small issues recently (like re-applying the fix for the news.o.o RSS feed which breaks after every wordpress update), but the overall picture is still far from what I'd like to see - and that's the diplomatic way of saying it ;-)
I know it's always tempting to point fingers at a more distant, less communicative, less involved supporter than SUSE who we all work
Indeed. I have to admit that I enjoyed writing the above ;-))
with closer, but MicroFocus have done a very good job of keeping openSUSE's lights on. We suffered next to no disruption during the transition of SUSE's ownership from MF, which really should be considered positively.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but technically the services in Provo still run on the same servers as before AFAIK. Therefore I'd be surprised if the ownership change would cause any breakage ;-)
That was not my point, I just wanted to point out that even if they wanted to, Heroes are not capable of doing everything in the openSUSE infra.
Right, running after the admins in Provo often takes more time than doing the actual work would take :-(
No it doesn't - something built in OBS for Fedora or Ubuntu isn't magically suddenly available for openSUSE. Other distributions have other standards (I would argue lesser ones), and we shouldn't compromise openSUSE's quality needlessly.
Nobody stops us from bringing our high standards to other distributions ;-)
About openSUSE quality, I would on the other hand argue that applications should go to /usr directory and not /srv, which should be reserved for user's websites instead. It's a neat structure, which this packaging (of OBS, Nextcloud etc.) needlessly complicates.
<shameless plug> You mean, like PostfixAdmin, which lives in /usr/ (+ /var/ + /etc/) since a while? ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- »Microsoft Outlook Express - Designed to enable Virus replication.« [http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/office/2001/virus_alert.asp] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org