-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/14/2015 02:41 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
On Thu, 2015-06-11 at 20:45 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Françoise Wybrecht wrote:
Sharing and communicating on a mailing list ... is a non-sense when we do nothing else then giving different points of vue.
Slow & slow, most ppl go back to their priorities and shut up.
I cannot change that ...and I honnestly don't know who can or could.
As said ... when we just go on talking and in fact, nothing change, everybody will logically just contribuate to the distribution, and forget the community (project). Yes, it was the fun ...
To maintain a living, thriving community, the community has to be in charge, completely. The community has to have complete ownership of their "baby". In my opinion, that is not situation at openSUSE. I am deliberately not judging whether that is good or bad, I am just observing.
Sorry about my late response, on the weekend my priorities are different :-)
In which parts is this not the case?
All the admin for instance. Is anyone in the community running bugzilla for instance?
No, does anyone care to? Now I wish I had not deleted the response I had written up to jdd's message that went in the same direction over the weekend. Thus, I get to type it again, and I will send it this time ;) Maintaining infrastructure does not only cost money for the hardware, it also takes people to maintain it. If you find a sponsor that is willing to host all the machines and hand over the keys to the data center I doubt there would be a big revolt at SUSE. SUSE as the primary sponsor is not willing to hand over the keys to the data center and that is their prerogative. OBS is reasonably easy to move, it could also run in AWS, or GCE, all it takes is to find someone who is willing to pay the bill. However, consider that we do not have enough people to maintain core packages, be release managers, administer the few infrastructure pieces that we do have, openSUSE Planet, openSUSE Connect.... including stuff that was turned off and no one complained about it being gone ;) There is not a board meeting I can remember where we have not talked about turning off things that are not maintained at the administration level. There are guidelines where anyone can run stuff for opensuse.org and get root access to a VM. Lars has given talks about this at oSC over the last couple of years. Yet, no one has stepped up to actually do the work. Despite this we get people complaining about "we don't control bugzilla", "we don't control the infrastructure", blah blah blah. The fact is that we as the community do not have enough fingers on the keyboard to do all the things that it would actually take to keep the ship afloat. Take a look at the wiki.... I know what I am saying is not going to be very popular, but those are the facts. Thus, rather than complain we should every now and then say THANK YOU for all the services that our primary sponsor provides, that are not measured in dollar signs, rather then complain about the work that is being done that we do not have anyone in the community to do in the first place.
YasT also appears to be in the hands of SUSE.
How so? https://github.com/yast/yast-yast2 Anyone can contribute. SUSE reserve the right to decide what goes into the Enterprise distribution, of course, just as SUSE reserves the right to decide whether to ship code from project A or B in the enterprise distribution. There was a concerted effort by the YaST team over the last couple of years to eliminate the barriers to entry. YCP was pretty much, or by now completely, eliminated. Much of the core pars were re-written to decouple the code and make it more modular all in an effort to make it possible for people to contribute more easily and lower the burden of entry. If SUSE would have wanted to "hold on" to YaST non of these efforts would have been necessary. Just keeping YCP around would have been enough to scare anyone off. It would be nice to get rid off these misconceptions somehow. YaST is just like every other open source project, of course in order to contribute you have to get your pull requests past the committers, but how is that different than for glibc, gcc, any given Perl, Python you name it module?
The xen stuff also seem to be mostly handled by SUSE staff.
I am certain that the people working on Xen and maintaining the openSUSE Xen stuff will not complain if someone with a non @suse.com e-mail address steps in and helps out or does it all for that matter. There is a concerted effort to push all the SUSE patches we carry for Xen upstream. Jump right in and I bet you the people that are working on this will not scream bloody murder. Some of the patches we carry have actually been taken by people in the upstream Xen community modified and pushed upstream. Low and behold there was no yelling or complaining from anyone with an@suse.com address about this.
The only SUSE appointed role is the chairman of the board. Everything else is up for take by any volunteer and in case of conflicting views, where 'non-suse' feels 'suse' is pushing beyond reason, we have the freight train https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Freight_Train
And for sure, openSUSE project have many forces and quality, but not communication & welcoming. That's it.
We have a distinct lack of leadership. Anarchy is not great for communication & being welcoming.
As above you state the community has to be in control: do you want to assume the role?
No, I don't want to own the project as a whole, but I'd be happy to assume ownership and dedicate my time to those bits where I feel qualified.
Great, step right in, there are plenty of holes to fill if you need help finding the holes let me know and I'll be happy to help you identify them. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVftt1AAoJEE4FgL32d2UkkfAIAJr4ipMqGzY1tIMQfNmb8Uvj tvZ06657Mr8cmtytyGxXN1KemSjFjRTi7J6wFTa6wWXNR25IJLhR5JxYlisNGpCD ntuCVIIPg46RLvNMEMmmlQRczoyPOsY714lzqG33F5zxEo1Nm9l/OlQhKC4aezoD Dlk9LOh/jUgkNBHjhQp75cbc1KkAJ+LC2ByA5jObvlaOvDkrXi/ObiVqV796pn/Q 1Zl2fz+hFuLG3oHg5YOf8tRlL69lcZuEDHHzELczvMKtneF5AlpvYN+mnXO+FmwW AZH0b9r3KVX+FrH3mY0/VMaJsBFacj20Ga3fcLoBVyeiml391M5gzU6ts8h14zE= =tQ16 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org