On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:14:52 +0200, Stephan Kleine wrote:
So you are proposing that some experienced forum users do a filter/proxy and start sending bug reports from other forum users? And everything you need is that we treat those bugs as we treat any other bug? OK, you have it.
My read of your reply here is that you're frustrated. Is that a fair reading of what you wrote?
Probably, IMHO reporting bugs "as a proxy" simply makes no sense because "you" (the proxy) will never be able to answer any follow up questions.
The proxy can facilitate the dialog with the user. The proxy also (at least in some cases) will have duplicated the issue, so that provides some validation that it's not user error or some other issue (configuration perhaps).
From a dev standpoint, I'd think that that sort of filtering would be seen as a good thing, not something to be frustrated by.
What I've proposed is just that - a proposal.
I personally don't need everyone who answers bugs to say "yes, we'll accept bugs from forum users", but a general feeling that such bugs will be accepted and worked on - and that the devs will work *with* the users/ reporters to identify and resolve bugs.
IMHO it is plain ridiculous that you suggest that bugs from "forum users" are treated differently from bugs reported by $otherPeople. The point simply being is that one has to be able to get answers to following questions, which wont happen it they get reported by proxies.
Perhaps they're not treated differently, but for many (not all) forum users, the interaction with a developer tends to be abrasive or harsh. Part of the reason for that is just personality - many developers (and I've spent a fair amount of my life working with devs) are very direct; that directness can be seen by non-technical people as rudeness.
Which means providing some feedback rather than just saying "WORKSFORME" and immediately closing the bug when there isn't enough information presented.
It will first get set on NEEDINFO and if the reporter can't be arsed to provide any information (answering some "How am I supposed to provide the answers you need?" will always get some "how to do it" as an answer which is sounds fair to me IMHO) but you can't really blame ppl for closing bugs if the reporter can't be arsed to provide any information.
That makes perfect sense to me; where the rubber hits the road, though, is in understanding that if a proxy is in fact acting as a go-between, the "normal" times for something to stay as NEEDINFO before being closed might need to be adjusted. It depends on whether successful duplication happens or not (though ideally, only something that was duplicated would get reported, so the proxy should be able to answer most of the questions that pertain to "what". They may not be able to answer the questions pertaining to "why does the user want to do this").
If a user takes the time to say "hey, something's broken here and not working properly for me" but an insufficient amount of information is presented, even if the bug is posted by an intermediary (because not everyone can know what a developer is going to need to fix a bug), the flow needs to be smooth enough that people feel it's worth their time to even report the bug.
1. It totally makes NO sense to me to report bugs as a proxy since you wont be able to answer any follow up questions.
I think I've addressed that concern with my comments above - but if I haven't, let me know what questions/concerns you have and I'll give it some thought and if necessary talk with some of the people who might report issues in this way to get their thoughts and ideas.
2. If someone encounters anything "broken" and then files a bug he / she should also be willing to answer any following up questions. There is NO knowledge needed since ppl will ask for the information and normally will happily tell how to get the needed output so there is nothing required but being able to answer questions and providing the requested output.
OTOH if people aren't willing to do that it makes no sense reporting a bug in the first place.
I actually agree with that - and if the proxy isn't able to answer the questions or get the answers from the original poster, then closing the bug makes perfect sense. I think we can work together to come up with a reasonable workflow that would work for this type of reporting - THANK YOU for taking the time to discuss it and express your concerns. This is the type of dialog that needs to happen so we can be successful. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org