On 21 September 2012 14:37, Jos Poortvliet <jos@opensuse.org> wrote:
(pretending this was send to the list :D)
Hope it will make it this time :-)
Thanks for that, it clarifies things.
The original objective is, as underlined by Florian, to make the french community more coherent. I say french here for simplicity, but that's a bit broader because this forum is used by french speaking people, not only french. The french community is quite parceled out. Participation to the broader, international project, does not suffer from any problem. There are people participating to packaging, IRC and other parts of the project from both forums. Fortunately. That would be a real shame otherwise.
Agreed. Note that when we like to get things on openSUSE infrastructure, that is NOT against alionet or anything - we just happen to think that less fragmentation is better, just like you want. People who search for openSUSE are most likely to end up on openSUSE.org - and thus on the french stuff there, and miss alionet. So, having everything on openSUSE.org is better.
I never felt it that was against Alionet, don't worry. I wouldn't be here otherwise. I'd rather be writing some book about plot theory... :(p
Nah, it is understandable. That's why planet.opensuse.org is multi-language. News.opensuse.org is not but we're actually currently looking for a solution for that - as you see, the announcement of openSUSE 12.2 was translated but we put links to the wiki page on news.o.o as a work-around...
Nice to hear that. As french speakers, readers, writers, we need this kind of infrastructure. That is one of our most important source of newcomers, I think. Notified by some external news, they come on our website and eventually subscribe.
First, I wouldn't call Alionet a competitor, rather a family member. on the Alionet association: that is absolutely awesome, and that should be kept. Heck, it should be mentioned on the openSUSE side. I do prefer to keep things centralized where it makes sense but of course having Alionet for planning booths and handling money is really cool!
Thanks. Working with openSUSE mates has been proved to ba a source of awesomeness, too. And currently, one of our main goals is to increase the opportunities to work together. That's sometimes hard... but when we can, that's really good.
From your post I take it we agree that fragmentation is bad. Two things: - first of all, the French community has to make the final decision, not the global one. I think it's your work and your community. I think we all agree on that, I just want to say it out loud.
Thanks.
- Second, IF you decide to stay on alionet.org - I'd rather remove the openSUSE french pages and forums and link them to alionet.org than keep the fragmentation.
As explained before, what we hope currently is a bit different. There are too many places to maintain, too much work to do. It would be really nice to let the wiki in fr.opensuse.org. It's the best maintained wiki in french. And it's easy too find, with an URL that is easy to remember. On the other hand, the forums would live on Alionet servers. This point is not only linked to the forums frequentation. As explained, we've created an association in France. Clearly, the identity of our association, the identity of our community, is built around our websites. Without the forum, Alionet would loose its identity, at least currently. That means people would just go away disappointed. Some of them would certainly stay in the openSUSE community. Many of them would not, because they feel attached to the Alionet community. I don't want to loose these people. Without them, there won't be any association anymore... and we would loose some of our strength. That is for the short term considerations. For the long term ones... well... On a local side, I think it is meaningful to have an structure that is easily recognized by people. I think Alionet can be this structure in France (even if a lot of work will have to be done to achieve such a status). That means the association must keep some identity, some values. If we want to merge the Alionet structure in openSUSE structure, we'll have to find the way to keep this identity, first. I hope that, as a member of the openSUSE family, Alionet can become, at least locally, a real strength.
But. I really think it's better if we manage to move everything to openSUSE servers. That would mean you guys benefit from our sysadmin work (and maybe our sysadmins can get help from you, too). And it is easier for people to find. And if you have ideas for improvements, we can do that together and it benefits everyone using our stuff! And if something goes wrong (fights or a forgotten renewal of a domain) it is easier to fix/safer in openSUSE. Together stronger and all that.
We don't want too loose anything (or as little as possible, so we could for example import the posts from alionet.org to forums.opensuse.org. If that is possible of course. And if there are other things you guys miss, we should be able to run that on our systems - too. Or fix our systems, with your help of course.
And we can do this step-wise. So you guys run a bunch of things - we can start moving those one by one, have a multi-year plan for all I care. Take the time to do it right. But have consolidation as a long term goal!
"Consolidation" sounds right.
Just something you have to decide on. I think the others in the thread made clear: we'd like to have stuff on openSUSE.org, preferably running the same way and in the same software as the rest. But it is your call - you're doing awesome and we'd much prefer to keep you doing that than discourage you. So, think about it, talk to our sysadmins maybe, yell at us if our infrastructure can't do things you need (because that would be something we have to fix) etcetera, and pick what works best please!
In the end, the french community will decide. We'll make some votes, on the two sides. The good news is that the discussion has not turned int oflame war. I really, really hope we'll succeed. Even if it's still not the best solution, well... It would be far better, and closer from the best. Regards, Agemen. -- OrbisGIS supporter. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org