-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 [sent later] On 2010-06-28 18:38, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:42:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Sure, let's discuss the options. If we can come up with a better structure than what we currently have, I believe that would be seen universally as a good thing. We may not agree on the final breakdown, but if we can make it easier for potential repliers to find topics of interest and make it easier for users to self-classify their issues by picking the right forum, that should make everyone's job easier.
To me, list user, the number of forums (I try to read them sometimes, via nntp only) and their names is disconcerting. I can't relate them to the mail list names, I don't know which to read.
We try to move threads into the appropriate forum when they're misposed; that does create issues for the NNTP gateway, but for new threads, we do try to take care of this. If someone finds a thread in the wrong place¸ it can be reported with a suggestion as to where it should be located instead. If it's been around for a while, we generally don't move it, but if it's a new thread, we do try to ensure they're moved to the right forum.
I personally prefer to redirect the user rather than do the move for them - that way the user learns *and* has to take extra steps (which to me means they will try harder the next time they post so they don't have to do *more* work).
:-) I would have no idea on how to move a thread using NNTP; I would have to repost.
For example, there is "opensuse.org.help.prerelease-beta". Is that equivalent to opensuse-factory? If so, why not have it named "...factory"?
They are roughly equivalent; I don't honestly know why 'factory' wasn't used, I *think* because to the average end user, 'factory' doesn't have the same connotation as it does to those who have been around the project longer.
Yes, ßeta has an easier to guess at meaning. I think. Perhaps what is needed is a read-only nntp group with quick help tips such as what is appropriate on each forum/group, how to post, etc. I think I saw some tips (I'm talking out of year-old memories) on the web interface, but I don't see them on NNTP. Ah... I discovered another problem. My problem, I mean. I was just checking the "howto" group, to see if what I said above is already there. At the moment I'm off-line on my laptop, but earlier I made thunderbird to download contents, limited to 60 days old messages... meaning that the howto group is almost empty. I have to define individual settings for some groups
Or "opensuse.org.help.install-boot-login". I see threads like "Software update apparently replaced Firefox 3.6.4 with 3.5.9", "bundle-lang-gnome 2233 update fails", "Graphics Card Driver for GMA HD Please". I fail to see the relation to the group name... :-? Boot or login problems? I don't really know what that group is for from reading the title.
Looks like a few threads that should've been moved that weren't. It happens; in general, it shouldn't, but there will always be people who post to the wrong place. We've tried very hard to keep people from posting support questions to the "Forums Feedback" section, by labeling the support sections as "Get Help Here" and moving those feedback forums to the bottom of the list (so they have to go past the "Get Help Here" group of forums and we still get people asking support questions there.
I understand. It happens in mail lists, so it will happen on forums, which are perhaps more fragmented. But I think that accessing via nntp those labels or tips are missing. Mmm... I just had a look via http on a colleague computer with inet, and the index with tips is nice.
Then, there is, for example, opensuse.org.news.security-announcements. I'm reading via news interface, often off-line. But all posts I try, instead of containing the security information, contains the link to the info somewhere else... thus, useless to me. The equivalent mail list does contain all the info "inside".
opensuse.org.news.tech-news has a similar problem.
That particular group is fed from an RSS feed - that's why the information is linked rather than posted; we post just what's in the RSS feed information.
Perhaps the announcements should be gated from the mail list posts.
Then, a post or a thread I understand can be moved from a group to another. This is very disconcerting via nntp.
Yes - the gateway doesn't handle moves very gracefully. As I mentioned in a post to Rajko on (I think) Friday, the NNTP gateway imposes some limitations; we have one guy who has done some development work on it and has improved it significantly, but he hasn't had the time (he's a volunteer) to make any additional enhancements recently.
I saw that later.
Perhaps all this seems silly to a person used to forums, but then, maybe, they help keep some of us listers away from the forums.
No, those are perfectly valid issues to raise. The question becomes how to address them, or how to mitigate them.
How about a guide for mail list users attempting to participate in the forums? Maybe it exists already?
I haven't seen a guide like this myself - what do you think would be useful topics to include in such a guide?
Dunno - I'm an absolute novice on forums. I've never posted there, as far as I recall. And via nntp, not yet. When I have spare time I'm off-line, which means that, even if I know the answer for something, it will reach very late. I suppose that many of the points we are talking here would be interesting for that guide. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iF4EAREIAAYFAkwpp28ACgkQja8UbcUWM1wgPAD+I5t0G5oaKME/KI3lY09BDQuy vcpm1QeDrr7ClRLRH1EBAImEUoF18fSLMBuOCvYHxSEGk0Egf/VoK19T6J/7sf8a =O4gZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org