Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 06/16/2015 02:51 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
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On 06/14/2015 02:41 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
On Thu, 2015-06-11 at 20:45 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
To maintain a living, thriving community, the community has to be in charge, completely. The community has to have complete ownership of their "baby". In my opinion, that is not situation at openSUSE. I am deliberately not judging whether that is good or bad, I am just observing.
Sorry about my late response, on the weekend my priorities are different :-)
In which parts is this not the case?
All the admin for instance. Is anyone in the community running bugzilla for instance?
No, does anyone care to?
Over the years, I am pretty certain I have offered to do admin a number at least twice. Not bugzilla specifically, anything really. I have also proposed donating hardware to e.g. OBS, but that's not acceptable either unless it comes delivered by truck or in the form of a cheque.
Yes, a "drop it off" arrangement would be difficult, but I am pretty certain we could cover the shipping cost with "local reimbursement" money, then the hardware would get delivered with a truck ;)
I understand that the "local reimbursement" program was suspended for a while, but it is back and it should be used for things that benefit the project.
AFAIR, it's been quite a while since I made that proposal. I think my main initial intention/suggestion was to donate cycles, but when that wasn't possible/accepted, I suggested donating some physical servers that were being decommissioned. The cost in commercially shipping 500kg of 2nd hand computer hardware across an EU/non-EU border just didn't make it feasible at the time. I think the suggested alternative was "buy us some new servers instead" :-)
Maintaining infrastructure does not only cost money for the hardware, it also takes people to maintain it. If you find a sponsor that is willing to host all the machines and hand over the keys to the data center I doubt there would be a big revolt at SUSE.
We know "it also takes people to maintain it", yet volunteers from the community are not accepted.
Yes, for certain levels this is correct. Again, no one should expect that SUSE will hand over the keys to the data center.
Completely appreciated and understood. Now, how about the other levels?
There is not a board meeting I can remember where we have not talked about turning off things that are not maintained at the administration level.
TBH, I don't recall seeing that in the minutes ever. My mistake, I'll have to reread them.
- From the meeting minutes of the board face to face meeting last year:
"""" 6. Meeting with Lars
I have to comment - I see those minutes were posted to https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_meeting, but I don't see them posted to the opensuse-project mailing list where project meeting minutes usually go. Maybe my mistake, but I honestly can't be bothered to go polling miscellaneous websites to find stuff to do. Just as I don't go looking for opensuse "announcements" on people's personal blogs. --> openSUSE communication issue. [snip - totally relevant]
+ It is perceived by Lars that one problem of the lack of infrastructure maintainership is the lack of experience/knowledge
Plus a complete lack of call for help.
Lars and his team are available to mentor people that are interested in maintaining an openSUSE infrastructure service """""
Sorry the cut and past is ugly, I did try to make it little more readabl e.
No worries. I detest web design/work, but a part from that, I could probably have helped with some of those issues. Quite honestly, it sounds like a classic example of inept openSUSE communication. No calls for help, no request for a new maintainer, minutes only posted to a website. --> openSUSE communication issue.
There are guidelines where anyone can run stuff for opensuse.org and get root access to a VM. Lars has given talks about this at oSC over the last couple of years. Yet, no one has stepped up to actually do the work.
Where is the todo-list where one can sign up? As I said, I am pretty certain I have offered my help more than once.
I'll hook you up with Lars and team in a separate e-mail. Thank you.
I'm looking forward to that, we'll see if there's anything I can do.
Things have changed, as I said, we need to let water under the bridge be exactly that.
You're probably right, but a few "no thanks" are, well, difficult to just shake off.
We cannot conjure up non SUSE contributors to YaST. All the YaST team/SUSE can do is lower the barriers to entry. I would claim this has been done, very successfully from my point of view.
I agree completely. Unfortunately, I don't speak ruby. Had ycp been converted to C instead, you would quite likely have seen a few patches (instead of bugreports) from me.
There have also been numerous announcements on the YaST list, sorry for not digging those up right now, about modules that will no longer be maintained by the YaST team and that need new owners, similar to the "packages for sale" announcements that happen on -packages from time to time.
Yes, I have seen those - I remember ISDN/ADSL/PPPoe support going for instance. 5-6-7 years ago I would have been happy to work those, but both technologies are being phased out. I moved off ADSL 3 years ago, ISDN is scheduled for decommissioning end of 2017. I have the hardware, both ADSL and ISDN interface cards available if anyone is interested.
It would be nice to get rid off these misconceptions somehow.
More openness and transparency would be probably help a lot, but that's a broken record if I've ever heard one.
Agreed it is a broken record, but apparently what ever is being done, that is perceived by some to provide more transparency and openness is not helping, and not received as such. Or the information is not being made available in a timely sufficiently loud messaging campaign. Thus, my suggestion would be to provide concrete examples and not just say "more transparency", rather say, "it would be nice if we could get more information about why YaST is SUSE owned as far as commits and maintenance is concerned". Someone can respond to that question with detailed answers and hopefully provide the transparency needed.
It's getting to be a bit late in the day here, I'd like to get back to that one tomorrow. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org