On Wednesday 22 September 2010 09:39:46 Will Stephenson wrote:
On Friday 17 September 2010 18:28:59 Charles Wight wrote:
On 09/17/2010 10:08 AM, Trifle Menot wrote:
Some Novell employees are insecure and defensive, and can't tolerate criticism or dissent. This project will never attract wide support while such attitudes prevail. Get over yourselves.
As the brits like to say ..... here, here!
That would be "hear, hear", old fruit.
Not that I agree with "Trifle"'s assertion that any dissent should be tolerated. Criticism that comes from armchair project leaders who only pop up when there's a flamewar can safely be ignored.
At the same time they can do damage (eg people who don't know them don't know how to weight their input or by being an ass towards good contributors). So, while as long as they obey the reasonable rules of behaviour we have they can surely hang around, there is no reason at all why we can't point out that it's all talk and no work. Talk is cheap, ideas are easy - work is what counts; that's the Free Software culture, it has gotten us this far; and we should make that clear to everyone. Anyone saying "ah bah, I don't like this attitude of openSUSE" should have a look at the biggest (and arguably most successful) FOSS community - the Linux Kernel. The ultimate "show me the code or fuck off" attitude you'll ever see. Not that I advocate mimicking it, it ain't a very friendly place - but it DOES get work done. openSUSE is, like all Free Software communities, a meritocracy. You EARN the right to speak up (influence) by proving yourself valuable. If you don't contribute, who the f*** are you that we should listen? We're not a company - where managers get appointed to a position because they had the right papers and contacts and get paid well - here, those who actually KNOW what they are talking about are in charge. When we need input from others (like users) we ask for it (eg see the openSUSE users survey). -project is a development list. So those who speak here are contributors - or rather, should be. If you answer questions on the forums, write articles for news.o.o, are an artist for openSUSE, packager, developer - it doesn't matter WHAT you do, you're part of those who make decisions. Nothing, however, is not enough. And opinions we have plenty, so no, giving those is not a contribution, sorry. I don't want to be harsh but in my opinion this thread is going in the wrong direction and I want to make clear where I stand when it comes to those talking on this list. While being friendly is good, we should also be clear. I KNOW there are people here who contribute far more than some of the noisy people here, yet are too humble to speak up. I want to hear THEIR voices instead of some "armchair project leaders", as Will calls 'em. Cheers, Jos
Will