On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Marco Michna
Aloha,
Sorry, but it's actually an important topic.
No it is not!
I went through this when I was tasked several years ago with managing an instructor program for a software company. The number of inactive members of the program was detracting from the value of the program for those who were active, so we decided to institute an expiration policy that had a very simple way to get back into the program.
So for my part, I'm speaking from direct experience about increasing the value to the active part of the membership of a program or group.
You still don't get it ... I do ... we do ... they do! And just because there has been no vote someone decides that being a member also means that you have to vote! If I decide not to vote then I do not vote. EOD! You can't force me to do stuff I do not wan't ... if you try to force me then fsck yourself and think about what you did wrong!
This more or less demonstrates *why* membership needs to have a perceived value. If there isn't a perceived value, then the member has no incentive to take steps to ensure they remain a member.
You didn't get the point! If there will be autmated mails they will end up in some spam rules ... I'm not responsible for your configuration but if I get a mail from a unknow sender it will end in my spam folder. This folder might be checked when I have time to do so. It may be that it will take months to check this because I have a lot of things to do and even if I'm bored to death, I would rather play a funny game than to look trough spam.
Which also feeds into people feeling (a) that voting for the board is an important responsibility of membership, and (b) that there is a reason to become a member and to support the project's guiding principles in a concrete way.
Back to square one. What does my contribution to the project have to do with my opinion to vote or not? Did I ver got asked why I didn't vote? Has there been a possibility to say "I don't vote because ..."
Again, that's a problem that ties back to perceived value. If the member perceives value in the membership, then they'll make sure they're contactable and their contact information is up to date.
As I said before ... never travel, never be in a hospital, never go to a country where you are not sure to recieve mails at all.
And if youre hoster has a technical problem ... sue em! Because it's their fault that you lost all your rights to be a fscking openSUSE member.
It sounds like you want the status, but why?
You don't get it - do you? I seriously give a shit about being a member or not!
I definitely do not have to be a member of a exclusive club to do what I do.
What value do YOU see in membership?
Back in the times where we did this there was a reason! First thing was: on IRC you will be seen as promoter/supporter of openSUSE Second: either if it is cool to have such an address or not - it made a statement to have a valid opensuse mail address.
And why is that value insufficient for you to make sure your contact information is current?
Why should it have changed? If it had/has changed then it would be my responsibility to change the information! Sure ... as we could see today - even people employed there have not been able to get their shit done
--8<-- 22:10 -!- dragotin [~kf@pD9E52351.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #opensuse-project 22:11 < dragotin> hi 22:11 < dragotin> can somebody help me with the mail settings in connect? My opensuse.org address is not longer working -->8--
Hah ... maybe you killed Klaas already because he didn't contribute in the way of your simple minded ideas!
Those activities contribute to community growth, certainly - being in the community doesn't necessarily translate to being a member involved in shaping the distribution and the project.
Something you just made up! Being a member never had anything to do with "shaping" anything! I don't force or as you call it "shape" to anyone!
OSS is and always has been about merit (it is a meritocracy). If I wanted to contribute to the Linux kernel, I have to prove that I know what I'm doing by submitting patches. I don't just automatically get an equal voice to what someone like Greg K-H has when it comes to kernel enhancements.
Yeeeeeehaaaw ... just because I'm not that know as Greg makes me less important. Nice statement! Do a little research an you might find out that I have been involved in S.u.S.E., SuSE, openSUSE. You find my name in books and on many articles ... But hell yeah ... I only wrote code if the community wanted me to! I stepped back from being a operator on all IRC channels when I had been told that I am to agressive with enforcing the rules.
The same is true for the openSUSE project. One has to earn their voice through contributions. One isn't *granted* a voice in project decisions because they *use* the distribution. They have to start with something small - reporting problems, using pre-release versions and submitting bugs, etc.
More howling ... Are you actually sure what you are talking about? Do a little research an you might find out that I have been involved in S.u.S.E., SuSE and openSUSE. Please - do a little research before you blame someone!
*Nobody* starts at the top in a meritocracy. Project membership is a step on the meritocracy ladder, and the project leadership absolutely has the authority and ability to decide what constitutes a valuable contribution. They've earned it.
They have not! There have been "examples" and if you start to change the "rules" then simply fsck U. And beside of that - talking about "earned" - none of em earned it! At the last OsC I met only one person who earned a little respect!
That's also why voting for the board is important. While that's not *entirely* merit-based, those who achieve the most credibility in the community may not want that responsibility for a variety of reasons.
I repeat my answer. Have I been asked if I'm happy with the board or the candidates? Did you check that I voted? If you checked that I voted - I would blame you for changing the results!
If you use your opensuse.org e-mail address, then chances are you're contactable. Problem solved.
You don't get it? I don't use it ... on trades/fairs and other events I hand it to people to have a contact! If ... should be any of the "new" rules be applied ... this will be deleted! So if one of my (old) contacts want to send me a mail - it won't work! Just because you decided that I have to "contribute"!
Valid point, and maybe something you should bring up to the election committee for the next election.
Been there, done that, bored with doing it again! Maybe thats one reason why I don't want to vote for them?
But that you have something that I consider a valid point to be raised doesn't mean the election is or should be invalidated. You (presumably) saw the same e-mails everyone else did about the election committee and had the opportunity to raise that issue (or volunteer for the committee if you had the time - perhaps you didn't, though, I don't know) so it could be dealt with rather than coming in after the fact and criticizing what was done.
This topic has nothing to do with the election of any board! Except that some people think that subscribed members should vote. In every constitution it is granted also not to vote! So leave me alone!
Critizising is different topic! I have been working for SuSE for almost 10 years and they tried to kick me out of the company because I raised my voice against a crappy community manager. Joe "Zonker" Brokmeier was the worst thing that could happen to openSUSE - some of things that he did are still in place and still hurt us! Novell lost ... I got a shitload of money.
So please ... never, never ever tell me about criticizing in public!
You should become a member because you perceive value in membership. If you don't perceive value in membership, then please leave membership for those of us who *do* value it and either think it has meaning or would like to see it have an increased value.
You still don't get it ... we are members already! We don't want to be bothered with stupid mails about "renew you subscription" You are not our bosses and we won't send you work reports! If we decide not to vote for anything - it is our decission! You can't force us to vote!
It would be far better rather than just being pissed off that the discussion was raised if you contributed something to the solution. IMHO, that also plays into the 'merit' discussion - pissy rants have little merit. Contributing something (even if it's constructive negative criticism that can be used to improve things to some degree) rates more merit.
Yeah - as I said before ... instead of having this stupid discussions I would offer help on e.g. get more members So lets stop this stupid discussion and focus on more important things!
Give me one "PING" but only one, daemon criticizing -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I think this is a topic that going to only cause a lot of pain for everyone. There are a lot people that might be busy with life, want to contribute but can't. Have personal conflict with other members and don't contribute, because what work they have contribute is only stole by others without as much a thank you, or they have idea they present, to stole or jumped on by others who want to be in the spot light all the time take and try to make it their. Volunteer to help but get kicked to the side. Try take care of events by only to have fight now stop with everyone because they think they are the one that should be taking care of it. I know a few people like this, they aren't active because they feel that what they do, doesn't count because there are going to be a group of members to chime and make or try to take over, and leaving them behind. It might be nice to also to talk to some people in the community to see why they are not active. You would probably see that some of the stuff I have talked will be there. I have notice, it make me a bit mad, that why I keep harping on this, but there is a group of members that think that you are only active if you are in the chat room. I have seen it first hand. They will not reach out to see if another members are active and working on things. There are another means to reach members, chat, message, e-mail. What was the point of putting all wiki/connect if not ones going to use it. I think agree that it would be nice to clean up a list, but be careful, reach out to everyone ask them to chirp in before they get removed. Just as many inactive members we have listed, we have just that many ambassadors. I can't see on the project/marketing/art list, because I am not very active on those. I can only speak that, I am still very active, I am trying to take care of sites I was asked to help with, tweeting when I can, and doing other stuff that can't be seen. Before this because so long e-mail with the same group of people that always have 2 cents to give when it not need. Send a mass e-mail to every member. Ask them to update they wiki page. If they don't do say by May 30th, they get dropped, end of story. They come back after that, have them re-apply. No need to drag this out. Because it always seems to be the same people take about put stuff into place or doing things without checking. This shouldn't be for everyone to talk about, it should be for the people that were ask to work on the membership team and the board. All this e-mail going to do, which it has get opinions from other and upset a lot people. Good example, I am suppose to be on the membership team. I have asked about 5 times in the last years, where to go, what to do, never got an answer. But if I am saying I am working on event, sudden I got 10 people behind me working on the same thing without once e-mail, im'ing me to see what I have done. I value my membership and openSUSE and would love it, if people would reach out to check on things, instead just talking on irc. You might be suprise, you might find that a lot of those inactive members, are really active. -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- en.opensuse.org/User:Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org