Dear All,
We going to have our next meeting tomorrow August 13, 2021 at 6pm UTC on https://meet.opensuse.org/docs where we will have the following topics on our agenda:
- Wiki migration and communications
- Issue #27 (https://github.com/openSUSE/openSUSE-docs-revamped-temp/issues/27)
- Video project
If you can and feel like it drop by, happy to have you. Although we do have an agenda would gladly take your suggestions, your concerns and your questions and we can always have as many of these as needed if it catches on ;)
Br,
A.
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On Thursday, August 12th, 2021 at 12:04 PM, Attila Pinter
Thank you Gerald and Nenad.
Great pointing this out for all of us and it also made me think to address a few things from the previous mails which I sort of did in a reply to Per here: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/project@lists.opensuse.org/message/...
Sorry about the long mail, but please read if this thread is important to you.
Before we move any forward lets do a courtesy round if you don't mind: My name is Attila Pinter, and I've been using openSUSE on and off since 11.2 or so, in the past 5-6years I moved all of my servers to Leap and been a member since 2019 after the openSUSE Asia Summit in Bali. By now almost all of my servers are running TW or MicroOS. I have 3 young children, in $DayJob I'm labeled as a DevOps engineer and I also have a small FOSS business on the side of things. The reason why I personally got into focusing on the docs because of the great benefit it can bring to the entire project. It can help new and veteran users equally from which new users can become contributors and provide a helping hand to the project, it can help with marketing the project, and it is a great way to transfer knowledge.
Disrespecting anybody with this thread was never our intention and if we hurt feelings with our way of communication I honestly and sincerely apologies. I gladly own my mistakes and make amends. We're all humans, non of us are perfect, but we have to be able to forgive mistakes and move forward. IMO The reason for the strong emotional reactions on all sides is directly coming from our passion for FOSS and for openSUSE which is something of a common ground for all of us to stand on. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
The reasons we're asking for your support in the migration is not that we're lazy to write our own from scratch, but to honor your work you put into maintaining your wiki entry that could live on in the docs where it is reviewed and maintained periodically by you or others. This is not a small task. In this last bit we hope to seek support from projects to make sure we're not putting out anything that is factually not sound or what would cause issues between projects and users. Richard pointed out the importance of this already which I'm thankful for. Now to be absolutely 100% clear on this: We don't want to get rid of the wiki! We should seek a way to collaborate not demolish each others efforts and projects. If you don't want to do it our way, hey, that is all good just let us know when we ask if the migration is ok with you. If the migration is ok with you, but don't want to maintain it on our end that is also perfectly fine. And if by any chance you change your mind that is also great. I fail to see or believe that this could leave to a "competition" between projects. doc-o-o has been around longer than our little project and no major bad came from that to my knowledge :)
Anyhow our goal is simple: provide a unified, up-to-date, reviewed and maintained documentation for new and old users of openSUSE. If this means that we need to write docs from man pages or notes scratched on a tissue, we will do that. If this means that you send your docs in plain text in a mail, we do that. If this means testing out docs on live systems, well we're already doing that :) One thing I guarantee is that attributions will be always present and not because of some legalities or because of a license, but because it is a common courtesy and it is morally the right thing to do.
We're also planning to create short videos out of some topics that are in sync with the docs. Nothing fancy, just a screen capture, but we're still working out the details on this (too).
I took the liberty and started an etherpad to collect questions, and concerns so we can answer them a little better as this thread grew fairly big already and hard to track things: https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/docs-ama
On to a more personal note: Adrien and I been doing the docs since last year. When I say "I" that is mostly Adrien due to the limited amount of time I have. When you allow yourself to get to know him better you will see that he is a great guy, with a good heart and he is far from being an arrogant conqueror and not deserving of the storm that came at him. If anything he is eager, so am I, to get this project moving, together, with you to better the project. There are a great many of us in this project who we could be and do called out on occasions for their behavior from time to time, but that doesn't mean that they're bad eggs or that they're wrong, they are just different people. We're all different and we all share the contents of our mind's differently or even speak different languages. Tolerance is key, but pointing out issues in communication in a calm manner is just as important.
I learnt that when emotions are high it is better to rage write up and e-mail then not send it, step away a bit and read it again after you're a bit more calm. If you still think it is ok, press send. This last bit is true for all of us on this thread :)
With that I wish you all a wonderful day and a happy Thursday!
Looking forward to your comments and thoughts.
-- Br, A.
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
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On Thursday, August 12th, 2021 at 4:38 AM, Gerald Pfeifer gp@suse.com wrote:
On Wed 2021-08-11, Nenad Latinović wrote:
23.08 mark
Or directly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu-2Zrt2gHI&t=23m8s
(This is a neat trick, to simply add "&t=23m8s" to the URL, or
another number of minutes and second of course. :-)
HTH,
Gerald