On 4/17/24 1:17 PM, Attila Pinter wrote:
On Wednesday, April 17th, 2024 at 9:33 AM, Attila Pinter <adathor@protonmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 17th, 2024 at 8:50 AM, Simon Lees sflees@suse.de wrote:
On 4/17/24 10:50 AM, Richard Brown wrote:
On 2024-04-17 02:56, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
The minutes made it clear, the Board decided to not act on the reports of the endless nonsense in IRC
I am not aware of such a decision, and I do not see this in the minutes.
From “= Board Meeting Monday 2024-04-08 13:00 CEST =“
https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/BoardMeeting
All Board Members were present
“== Moderation == * IRC bridged to matrix, but not discord * Simon has been monitoring ... and found not need for moderation for the time being.”
The board had already chosen to act in the previous meeting by adding Shawn as an additional moderator to resolve this topic. This was a short follow up discussion as it was still on the agenda from the previous meeting. Where I simply stated I had not seen anything which was factually correct as due to technical reasons my laptop was offline over the weekend when the issues happened.
Shawn only raised the fact there was issues related to one of the moderators with the board via a reply to the meeting minutes which obviously happened After this meeting.
Once we were made aware of the details I started acting on this straight away in my capacity as a long term moderator informing the board in case they wanted to take further different behavior knowing that I could act straight away in this capacity whilst I knew members of the board were still sleeping.
In practice the moderator in question was removed from the position and therefore i'm presuming the rest of the board saw the issue as resolved before they had any chance to reach a consensus on whether different action should happen. To date no one on the board has suggested the removal of moderation status from the individual in question should be over turned and they should be re instated.
Could you please help me with setting the timeframes? Was this before/after/during the conversation under "Board meeting minutes 2024-02-26"?
Just to clarify, things are a bit unclear for me in terms of order. So first the board was receiving reports about the lack of moderation on IRC. Simon started to monitor IRC as minuted under "Board meeting minutes 2024-02-26" (which was released over a month late, but that is beside the point...). What further confuses me is that Simon has been a "long term moderator on IRC", yet they had no idea about these problems.
There are two factors here, firstly I had been having issues with my IRC client which meant I hadn't personally been active on IRC for a round a month prior. Secondly unlike our other platforms where we have moderator teams per platform traditionally on irc going back 15+ years we have per channel moderation. So while I was appointed a moderator on #opensuse I never had my client setup to join #opensuse-chat, i'd join at times to discuss issues with people but as far as i'm aware since the updated CoC was added no one was actively moderating #opensuse-chat, in fact one thing we seemed to miss was that in the migration from freenode to libera.chat the people who used to have moderator permissions there did not have this restored. I did join #opensuse-chat again once complaints were raised about it specifically I don't know when that was but certainly the initial discussion didn't mention that channel specifically. One of the reasons I didn't rush to fix my laptop's irc client is that as irc has got quieter the number of people we've had issues with on #opensuse irc channel atleast had dropped to near zero. I don't believe i've had to take moderator action there for atleast a few years.
The Board then appointed Shawn to moderate IRC (2024-03-11?) ? This would further clarify the quality of moderation on IRC prior.
Unfortunately I missed that meeting for personal reasons so I can't comment on that directly.
With that we reach last week's conversation under "Board meeting minutes 2024-02-26" where Simon suggested that after monitoring the channels moderation is not required on IRC. Shawn voiced their disagreement with that statement pretty clearly...
https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/project@lists.opensuse.org/message/... https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/project@lists.opensuse.org/message/...
This is a miss understanding, I said "Minimal Moderation" not "No Moderation" those two things are vastly different. My point here was that unlike many other communication channels within the project it is a space where "Some Nonsense" has always been present and allowed. But if someone is violating the CoC then clearly action should be taken.
From “= Board Meeting Monday 2024-04-08 13:00 CEST =“
https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/BoardMeeting
All Board Members were present
“== Moderation == * IRC bridged to matrix, but not discord * Simon has been monitoring ... and found not need for moderation for the time being.”
Just help me understand what is the point of having a mods-team if the Board wouldn't even listen to the one person who got appointed by them and instead side with someone who is part of the problem? And when the lid blows half of the Board publicly rolls all their support back, then one resigns, the other half is either sitting idly by, or try and defend their poor position...
I also don't think this is fair, as someone who has also been on the board you'd understand that often we deal with these issues in private rather then public. Once more details were provided to board@ action was taken quickly. Before that point the only details we as a board and I as an IRC moderator had were "#openSUSE has been relatively quiet and well-behaved the last week or two, #openSUSE-chat is still much of the same, partially due to one of the perpetrators still being a ChanOp, so it's a little hard to moderate." As you hopefully understand this on its own is not enough detail for the board to take action on, but it is enough for us to follow up further. I asked for specific details as part of the thread and once these were provided as previously mentioned I took action as a fellow IRC moderator before the board had time to collectively take action. As a final note, had I seen what Shawn had seen, my response in https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/project@lists.opensuse.org/message/... Would have been vastly different. It is now clear that Shawn had seen clear CoC violations that I had not and I can only presume that he believed I already had seen them and was suggesting they weren't worth moderation action. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B