Thanks for the quick replies. Yes, Simon, I know that 15.2 is at eol. But I want to delay the move a bit, because I expect additional problems in other areas after the update to 15.3... So, is there actually a solution possible?

On 9/7/21 17:12, Ben Greiner wrote:

Am 07.09.21 um 00:41 schrieb Michael Kasimir:

...

Hi all, within this e-mail I'd like to inquire why the actual available package:       python-pip-10.0.1-lp152.4.6.1.src.rpm

is completely outdated. An update fails with the message: You are using pip version 10.0.1, however version 21.2.4 is available.

I could not find out under https://build.opensuse.org/search?search_text=python3-pip, any available update.

You could try:

https://software.opensuse.org/package/python3-pip --> Show python3-pip for other distributions -> show experimental packages -> devel:languages:python:backports -> https://build.opensuse.org/package/binaries/devel:languages:python:backports...

There you find a pyhton3-pip-20.2.4 package.

OTOH, the (rude) general recommendation for Python on Leap 15.X is: Use venvs, pip --user, or get lost. The fact that you are trying to use pip indicates that you are on the path to do something to this effect anyway. So why not update pip over pip first?

Commands (untested, I don't have a Leap 15.2 with old pip lying around):

$ python3 -m venv myenv $ source myenv/bin/activate (myenv) $ pip -U pip

...

Incomprehensible is also for me, why there is such a high difference in the release number (10.0.1 ---> 21.2.4), nor who is current maintainer for this package.

Constant source of confusion. The python stack on Leap is basically left as is and only sees marginal updates where absolutely necessary. If you want up to date packages, use Tumbleweed.

No this is even more confusing because someone has explicitly touched it to make it older then what we are shipping everywhere else. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On 9/7/21 19:22, Michael Kasimir wrote:

On 9/7/21 17:12, Ben Greiner wrote:

OTOH, the (rude) general recommendation for Python on Leap 15.X is: Use venvs, pip --user, or get lost. The fact that you are trying to use pip indicates that you are on the path to do something to this effect anyway. So why not update pip over pip first?

Ben, thank you very much for your hint to the recommendation to use a virtual environment, which I finally found at: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/venv.html

I've upgraded pip with: $ python3 -m pip install --upgrade pip

I then checked out what is actually installed on my Leap 15.2 system:

$ python3 --version Python 3.6.12

$ pip3 --version pip 21.2.4 from /usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/pip (python 3.6)

$ rpm -qi python3-pip Name : python3-pip Version : 10.0.1 Release : lp152.4.6.1 Architecture: noarch Install Date: So 06 Dez 2020 17:50:05 CET Group : Development/Languages/Python Size : 9447014 License : MIT Signature : RSA/SHA256, Mo 30 Nov 2020 23:27:33 CET, Key ID b88b2fd43dbdc284 Source RPM : python-pip-10.0.1-lp152.4.6.1.src.rpm Build Date : Mo 30 Nov 2020 23:26:33 CET Build Host : build73 Relocations : (not relocatable) Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org Vendor : openSUSE URL : http://www.pip-installer.org Summary : Pip installs packages. Python packages. An easy_install replacement Description : Pip is a replacement for easy_install. It uses mostly the same techniques for finding packages, so packages that were made easy_installable should be pip-installable as well. Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.2 $ So result is apparently that python3-pip in version 10.0.1 systemwide, and pip3 is installed locally.

Then in general I checked out which different python versions are installed and where:

$ ls -al /usr/bin/pytho* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 13. Mär 17:29 /usr/bin/python -> python2.7 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 13. Mär 17:29 /usr/bin/python2 -> python2.7 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 6304 13. Mär 17:29 /usr/bin/python2.7 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 19. Feb 2021 /usr/bin/python3 -> python3.6 -rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 10472 19. Feb 2021 /usr/bin/python3.6 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 19. Feb 2021 /usr/bin/python3.6-config -> python3.6m-config -rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 10472 19. Feb 2021 /usr/bin/python3.6m -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3440 19. Feb 2021 /usr/bin/python3.6m-config lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 19. Feb 2021 /usr/bin/python3-config -> python3.6-config lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 45 9. Jun 2020 /usr/bin/pythontex -> ../share/texmf/scripts/pythontex/pythontex.py $

Confusing! Maybe it is the best to simply follow Bens proposal to surround all possible problems and use a venv...

Yeah, using a venv is always a good idea if your not using system packages having said that we might be able to fix it by adding the SLE package to Leap if that isn't likely to break too many other things at the same time if the old package is unusable because its too old then that should be resolved. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Am 07.09.21 um 11:11 schrieb Simon Lees:

...

Constant source of confusion. The python stack on Leap is basically left as is and only sees marginal updates where absolutely necessary. If you want up to date packages, use Tumbleweed. No this is even more confusing because someone has explicitly touched it to make it older then what we are shipping everywhere else.

What do you mean by "everywhere else"? Leap 15.1 and 15.2 have always shipped pip 10 and no maintenance update did change that. Didn't only Leap 15.3 start to reuse binary packages from SLE15?

Am 07.09.21 um 12:59 schrieb Simon Lees:

SLE got an update from 10.X to 20.X during 15-SP1 with a couple of updates since one was in 15-SP2, it shouldn't be too hard to take the sources for that package and ship them as an update for Leap unless there is a really good reason not to have a newer version like it would break lots of things for lots of people, but it already seems broken.

I have no insight into why SLE15-SP1 got that update, but I would not consider pip broken for Leap <= 15.2 If you use pip, you have already decided to populate either a user site or a virtual environment. If that is the case, you can always use the system pip 10 to install a more recent pip into the user site or venv. Never use pip as root. System packages normally don't need pip on runtime. If there was one in Leap, which does not work with pip10, it would have been broken from the beginning. Ben

For the recommended installation of the python virtual environment I could find the openSUSE package: python-virtualenv-16.1.0-lp152.2.4.src.rpm and installed it. It is now working! @Ben Thank you so much for the essential hints. Kind Regards M.

@Ben Thank you again so much for the additional hints. With the https://packaging.python.org/guides/installing-using-pip-and-virtual-environ... up to now it has NOT come clear to me, that for building the virtual environment there is a substancial diff: venv (= Python 3) and virtualenv (= Python 2) Such a clarification could not be found on the openSUSE page https://software.opensuse.org/package/python3-virtualenv It has not been my intention to still work with python2... Unfortunately in the openSUSE wiki is no information page regarding the python virtual environment subject.

On 9/7/21 23:25, Ben Greiner wrote:

Am 07.09.21 um 12:59 schrieb Simon Lees:

...

SLE got an update from 10.X to 20.X during 15-SP1 with a couple of updates since one was in 15-SP2, it shouldn't be too hard to take the sources for that package and ship them as an update for Leap unless there is a really good reason not to have a newer version like it would break lots of things for lots of people, but it already seems broken.

I have no insight into why SLE15-SP1 got that update, but I would not consider pip broken for Leap <= 15.2

If you use pip, you have already decided to populate either a user site or a virtual environment. If that is the case, you can always use the system pip 10 to install a more recent pip into the user site or venv.

Yes but if most people are required to use pip to update to a newer pip because the old one doesn't work with many libraries anymore I'd consider that broken and certainly worth upgrading, at an extreme point if pip 10 could no longer update to the latest version this would be very very broken. Being broken in such a way as described above would be more then enough reason to ship a maintenance update to a newer version. On the other hand if almost all pypi packages still work with pip10 then it might not be worth updating because of the risk of it breaking something.

System packages normally don't need pip on runtime. If there was one in Leap, which does not work with pip10, it would have been broken from the beginning.

Yeah this I am well aware of, I was more thinking of the risk that if we upgrade from pip10 to pip20 there is a chance that it will break a users setup or workflow that was created with pip10. Again if we believe the risk of a pip10->pip20 update breaking existing pip setups is really low then it would make sense to do the update because it will obviously benefit some users. While for many things we are very conservative on our update policy with leap if something is pretty much at the point of no longer functioning properly we do have scope to update it, especially in cases like this where the package isn't using the sources from SLE. Cheers -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B