Le 24/05/2011 13:12, Okuro Okiawa a écrit :

Hence, openSUSE has to be presented as an easy and comfortable solution for your work to take away the "fear" of some people of "damaging" anything when they touch their OS...

be warned that openSUSE is *not* designed for dummies (no Linux is). It's nice to be installed to your friend that can ask you for help. I real newbie will not use openSUSE if not preinstalled and configured. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Le 24/05/2011 15:38, Okuro Okiawa a écrit : cannot really decide between the two options... For me personally,

(2) is the best option, but (1) would make openSUSE more competitive in the OS-market. (In this regard, Ubuntu is a step ahead.)

but unless the strategy discussion change a bit, it's not the present openSUSE situation. And I don't think ubuntu is best on this respect, it should be a very hard work to reach such a goal (for example finding way to have all legal drivers on board, and a team to make any gadget work right out of the box - extremely unlikely) so out of this thread scope! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Le 28/05/2011 10:33, Stuart Tanner a écrit : I fear you miss completely the point. Most computer users (large public ones) are completely computer illiterate; Most do not know that the monitor (screen) is not the computer, don't know what is a programm or an application. I made windows to linux migration, in fact mostly word to openoffice and the only thing the users wanted to know was 'where is my "icon"'. Once they understood that openoffice icon was slightly different from the word one and know the new one, they where satisfied. (but here was a sysadmin to configure they computer) Most dont even know what version of windows they run.

Buffalo, Apple, TomTom to name but a few.

Do you think you will make Apple change?? the only location we can go is professional systems; Once people know Linux run on they professional computer, they can use it at home (an can ask the company admin in case od problem). On the public, we can only gain the computer addicts that are not also game addicts (and most of they friends) the problem is not ease of use, but habit and comercial power jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Am 24.05.2011 15:38, schrieb Okuro Okiawa:

Well, and exactly that's the reason, why openSUSE and Linux in general is mostly common in nerds or IT freaks (besides the Linux Servers). The question for openSUSE now is, which direction should be chosen: (1) reach more users or (2) let away all the "user-friendly" stuff and keep the distro clean of mostly useless stuff.

I cannot really decide between the two options... For me personally, (2) is the best option, but (1) would make openSUSE more competitive in the OS-market. (In this regard, Ubuntu is a step ahead.)

This is one of the reasons why I would prefer two openSUSE releases. One "Personal" release for the users, who aren´t so savvy at all, and one "Professional" release for the users, who say, that they don´t need such stuff for help and user friendly apps, but more devel-stuff or network-software. But I think, the disadvantage of this bi-released-openSUSE is the fact, that maintaining and care about the two releases is more more difficult then "just" maintaining *one* single DVD-version and the KDE/GNOME live CD. But I think this doesn´t belong to this thread actually, and if anyone´s interesting in continue such discussion, just open another thread or mail me privacy. -kdl PS: By the way, what´s on with the strategy discussion? Is there any result, or any things that needs to achive? Afaik it´s in freeze-mode till the foundation is founded, is that right? -- Kim-Dennis Leyendecker openSUSE Ambassador / openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org | http://www.suse.de Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Good morning, On Thursday 26 May 2011 13:33:51 wrote Jos Poortvliet:

On Wednesday 25 May 2011 17:26:48 Kim Leyendecker wrote:

...

Am 24.05.2011 15:38, schrieb Okuro Okiawa:

...

Well, and exactly that's the reason, why openSUSE and Linux in general is mostly common in nerds or IT freaks (besides the Linux Servers). The question for openSUSE now is, which direction should be chosen: (1) reach more users or (2) let away all the "user-friendly" stuff and keep the distro clean of mostly useless stuff.

I cannot really decide between the two options... For me personally, (2) is the best option, but (1) would make openSUSE more competitive in the OS-market. (In this regard, Ubuntu is a step ahead.)

This is one of the reasons why I would prefer two openSUSE releases. One "Personal" release for the users, who aren´t so savvy at all, and one "Professional" release for the users, who say, that they don´t need such stuff for help and user friendly apps, but more devel-stuff or network-software.

But I think, the disadvantage of this bi-released-openSUSE is the fact, that maintaining and care about the two releases is more more difficult then "just" maintaining *one* single DVD-version and the KDE/GNOME live CD.

But I think this doesn´t belong to this thread actually, and if anyone´s interesting in continue such discussion, just open another thread or mail me privacy.

-kdl

PS: By the way, what´s on with the strategy discussion? Is there any result, or any things that needs to achive? Afaik it´s in freeze-mode till the foundation is founded, is that right? Nah, there was a blog by Thomas Thym, who has been involved with that. He wanted to push it forward. I'm not sure exactly what his plan is there, so I CC'ed him and he can tell you if he wants :D

I have put the draft of the strategy on the wiki. http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Strategy_draft There is a section about the user as well so it might help you with your question. The strategy is not official yet, but there were many people from the community involved and it is reviewed by the board. So I think the big direction will not change anymore. I hope we can vote on the strategy before the creation of the foundation. Cheers, Thomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 27 May 2011 06:58:53 jdd wrote:

Le 27/05/2011 06:30, Thomas Thym a écrit :

...

I have put the draft of the strategy on the wiki. http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Strategy_draft

may be we couls quote evergreen and tumbleweed? specially in the last paragraph? (openSUSE does not...)

jdd

I quoted Evergreen in my advert but I didn't quote Tumbleweed partly because it slipped my mind, partly because of limited space, and partly because I would like customers to purchase longer term support and then get into tumbleweed. -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux Delivering openSUSE Retail to the UK 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44-1204-410474 Mob: +44-7868-028028 www.bolin.org.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

2011/5/24 jdd

Le 24/05/2011 13:12, Okuro Okiawa a écrit :

...

Hence, openSUSE has to be presented as an easy and comfortable solution for your work to take away the "fear" of some people of "damaging" anything when they touch their OS...

be warned that openSUSE is *not* designed for dummies (no Linux is). It's nice to be installed to your friend that can ask you for help. I real newbie will not use openSUSE if not preinstalled and configured.

jdd

Hi jdd, I strongly disagree with your words or better saying quote! If is not for dummies how can we explain the success case in elementary schools or in digital inclusion projects? If we still defending that linux is not for everyone we always will live like now with bunch of people with closed mind or worst thinking that are superior just because run linux or whatever in their own pc. It's time to change our minds and if you need a close case I can show you a school full of newbies that make TV, Radio, Publicity and much more using linux as their base. We all should think about it... or at least write in a different way ;-) Izabel

-- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

2011/5/24 Jos Poortvliet :

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 16:23:20 Izabel Valverde wrote:

...

2011/5/24 jdd

...

Le 24/05/2011 13:12, Okuro Okiawa a écrit :

...

Hence, openSUSE has to be presented as an easy and comfortable solution for your work to take away the "fear" of some people of "damaging" anything when they touch their OS...

be warned that openSUSE is *not* designed for dummies (no Linux is). It's nice to be installed to your friend that can ask you for help. I real newbie will not use openSUSE if not preinstalled and configured.

jdd

Hi jdd,

I strongly disagree with your words or better saying quote! If is not for dummies how can we explain the success case in elementary schools or in digital inclusion projects?

If we still defending that linux is not for everyone we always will live like now with bunch of people with closed mind or worst thinking that are superior just because run linux or whatever in their own pc.

It's time to change our minds and if you need a close case I can show you a school full of newbies that make TV, Radio, Publicity and much more using linux as their base.

We all should think about it... or at least write in a different way ;-)

The thing that is limiting us is not Linux itself. openSUSE is not per-se harder than Windows. But it doesn't have the vendor support, it doesn't have the neighboor-next-door who can help and it is unfamiliar. And you can't easily buy a PC with it. And it is seen as 'different' so if something goes wrong, you blame linux (while if something goes wrong with Windows most ppl blame themselves).

So I must consider myself really luck to never had a vendor support or a neighboor-next-door to work with kids in digital inclusion projects. I do believe ... the best case. Again... if we don't change our minds or believes we'll still in the same path! In Brazil we can easily buy a PC with linux, sometimes a terrible distro inside, and you are right about the buyers soon change for windows and again the words come from them: "- We are not genius to use linux!" That is exactly what I think we should change and our words or advertise could for sure help a lot. In time I'm not a genius either and I use linux!!! (BTW the best one ;-)

It is more of a cultural issue, not a technical one. But that doesn't change the fact that JDD is indeed right. If linux is to have a chance, it's gonna be with professionals (the ones we target!) and on dumbed-down devices like tablets (which the openSLX/KDE/Plasma Active team is targeting).

Certainly cultural... as people say we brazilians have more hope than others ;-) BUT If we are targeting professionals I'm definitely in the wrong community! Really sorry. cause as volunteer I'm looking to spread and show the best technical option to everyone and leaving professionals to big companies to do. Something to think... Maybe better now... Izabel

Just my 2 cents on this issue :D

...

Izabel

...

-- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

and if the advertisement project is made effective, there is a way to know if it works: add a coupon for 3 pound rebate on it and see how many come... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 23:22:31 Izabel Valverde wrote:

2011/5/24 Jos Poortvliet :

...

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 16:23:20 Izabel Valverde wrote:

...

2011/5/24 jdd

...

Le 24/05/2011 13:12, Okuro Okiawa a écrit :

...

Hence, openSUSE has to be presented as an easy and comfortable solution for your work to take away the "fear" of some people of "damaging" anything when they touch their OS...

be warned that openSUSE is *not* designed for dummies (no Linux is). It's nice to be installed to your friend that can ask you for help. I real newbie will not use openSUSE if not preinstalled and configured.

jdd

Hi jdd,

I strongly disagree with your words or better saying quote! If is not for dummies how can we explain the success case in elementary schools or in digital inclusion projects?

If we still defending that linux is not for everyone we always will live like now with bunch of people with closed mind or worst thinking that are superior just because run linux or whatever in their own pc.

It's time to change our minds and if you need a close case I can show you a school full of newbies that make TV, Radio, Publicity and much more using linux as their base.

We all should think about it... or at least write in a different way ;-)

The thing that is limiting us is not Linux itself. openSUSE is not per-se harder than Windows. But it doesn't have the vendor support, it doesn't have the neighboor-next-door who can help and it is unfamiliar. And you can't easily buy a PC with it. And it is seen as 'different' so if something goes wrong, you blame linux (while if something goes wrong with Windows most ppl blame themselves).

So I must consider myself really luck to never had a vendor support or a neighboor-next-door to work with kids in digital inclusion projects. I do believe ... the best case.

Again... if we don't change our minds or believes we'll still in the same path!

In Brazil we can easily buy a PC with linux, sometimes a terrible distro inside, and you are right about the buyers soon change for windows and again the words come from them: "- We are not genius to use linux!" That is exactly what I think we should change and our words or advertise could for sure help a lot. In time I'm not a genius either and I use linux!!! (BTW the best one ;-)

...

It is more of a cultural issue, not a technical one. But that doesn't change the fact that JDD is indeed right. If linux is to have a chance, it's gonna be with professionals (the ones we target!) and on dumbed-down devices like tablets (which the openSLX/KDE/Plasma Active team is targeting).

Certainly cultural... as people say we brazilians have more hope than others ;-)

BUT If we are targeting professionals I'm definitely in the wrong community! Really sorry. cause as volunteer I'm looking to spread and show the best technical option to everyone and leaving professionals to big companies to do. Something to think... Maybe better now...

Izabel

+1 Izabel again totally agree and I am working to launch a range of PC's which are openSUSE Pre Installed and looking to increase the range of Linux powered devices included. I would like to know the biggest hardware gripes we have and then we can advise people to keep away from them, and also what we know works really well and again we can do this also. -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux Delivering openSUSE Retail to the UK 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44-1204-410474 Mob: +44-7868-028028 www.bolin.org.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 15:23:20 Izabel Valverde wrote:

2011/5/24 jdd

...

Le 24/05/2011 13:12, Okuro Okiawa a écrit :

...

Hence, openSUSE has to be presented as an easy and comfortable solution for your work to take away the "fear" of some people of "damaging" anything when they touch their OS...

be warned that openSUSE is *not* designed for dummies (no Linux is). It's nice to be installed to your friend that can ask you for help. I real newbie will not use openSUSE if not preinstalled and configured.

jdd

Hi jdd,

I strongly disagree with your words or better saying quote! If is not for dummies how can we explain the success case in elementary schools or in digital inclusion projects?

If we still defending that linux is not for everyone we always will live like now with bunch of people with closed mind or worst thinking that are superior just because run linux or whatever in their own pc.

It's time to change our minds and if you need a close case I can show you a school full of newbies that make TV, Radio, Publicity and much more using linux as their base.

We all should think about it... or at least write in a different way ;-)

Izabel

...

-- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Hi Izabel I agree with you entirely I am promoting the Education Li F E project, the Medical Project as well as Evergreen and standard projects. I truley and honestly believe that openSUSE is fit for purpose i recommend it to everybody and those that use it love it. Its ready to go and I am ready to take it to the masses, I have covered the costs through my own family support, lets just see what happens when the newspaper hits the stands on the 6th of June. -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux Delivering openSUSE Retail to the UK 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44-1204-410474 Mob: +44-7868-028028 www.bolin.org.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

2011/5/28 Stuart Tanner

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 15:23:20 Izabel Valverde wrote:

...

2011/5/24 jdd

...

Le 24/05/2011 13:12, Okuro Okiawa a écrit :

...

Hence, openSUSE has to be presented as an easy and comfortable solution for your work to take away the "fear" of some people of "damaging" anything when they touch their OS...

be warned that openSUSE is *not* designed for dummies (no Linux is). It's nice to be installed to your friend that can ask you for help. I real newbie will not use openSUSE if not preinstalled and configured.

jdd

Hi jdd,

I strongly disagree with your words or better saying quote! If is not for dummies how can we explain the success case in elementary schools or in digital inclusion projects?

If we still defending that linux is not for everyone we always will live like now with bunch of people with closed mind or worst thinking that are superior just because run linux or whatever in their own pc.

It's time to change our minds and if you need a close case I can show you a school full of newbies that make TV, Radio, Publicity and much more using linux as their base.

We all should think about it... or at least write in a different way ;-)

Izabel

...

-- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Hi Izabel

I agree with you entirely I am promoting the Education Li F E project, the Medical Project as well as Evergreen and standard projects.

I truley and honestly believe that openSUSE is fit for purpose i recommend it to everybody and those that use it love it.

Its ready to go and I am ready to take it to the masses, I have covered the costs through my own family support, lets just see what happens when the newspaper hits the stands on the 6th of June.

-- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner

Bolton Linux Delivering openSUSE Retail to the UK

24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA

Tel: +44-1204-410474 Mob: +44-7868-028028

www.bolin.org.uk

Dear Stuart, I just can say that I wish you luck and I  hope this gift that you are giving for the noble unknown as to the most incredulous members of openSUSE Community can soon give a great return both personally and financially. I spent some time in London and I can tell you I was a fan of newspapers distributed in the streets. Who knows there are many other curious like me willing to try something new. Believe in your bet! I do!

From here I will keep doing what I always did.

And please let us know what happened today... :-) Best wishes, Izabel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 12:12:54 Okuro Okiawa wrote:

On 24.05.2011 12:46, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 12:32:25 Okuro Okiawa wrote:

...

On 24.05.2011 09:04, jdd wrote:

...

Le 24/05/2011 01:18, Stuart Tanner a écrit : [...]

...

But it's true that esp for the openSUSE box, which comes with phone support, it is important to reach the 'general public'.

Yea, reaching the "general" public seems most important to me especially for Linux as a whole. If you consider the development of Windows, you will see that they have reached this turn-over because it is preinstalled on most PCs.

Hence, openSUSE has to be presented as an easy and comfortable solution for your work to take away the "fear" of some people of "damaging" anything when they touch their OS...

Exactly my point and the point being made by the Advertisement against this very point. "to overcome your fear we offer several levels of support, telephone and email support from myself, forum (my own or the general one), telephone and e-mail support from open-slx), and the community in general which of course i try to participate in as much as possible. This is targeting Non-IT people not IT people. If they know about Linux chances are they are using Ubuntu.. I am targeting people who are dissatisfied with windows but no of nothing else or are concerned to give it a try. -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux Delivering openSUSE Retail to the UK 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44-1204-410474 Mob: +44-7868-028028 www.bolin.org.uk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 13:15:51 Okuro Okiawa wrote:

On 24.05.2011 12:46, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 12:32:25 Okuro Okiawa wrote:

...

On 24.05.2011 09:04, jdd wrote:

...

Le 24/05/2011 01:18, Stuart Tanner a écrit : [...]

By the way: Are there any predesigned ads for openSUSE for download? afaik, no. But creating something would be a good idea...

On Friday 27 May 2011 22:44:13 Stuart Tanner wrote:

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 13:19:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 13:15:51 Okuro Okiawa wrote:

...

On 24.05.2011 12:46, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

On Tuesday 24 May 2011 12:32:25 Okuro Okiawa wrote:

...

On 24.05.2011 09:04, jdd wrote:

...

Le 24/05/2011 01:18, Stuart Tanner a écrit : [...]

By the way: Are there any predesigned ads for openSUSE for download?

afaik, no. But creating something would be a good idea...

If anybody would like to see the final newspaper when its published next week I will send links over for the documents.

This magazine is available in and around London, it will also be available in every branch of HMV in London and Diesel Nationwide.

There are other more local newsagents and general stores where it is also available. I have now received a formal invoice and my family have loaned me the money to cover the advert plus I used my Bursary to cover it.

Cool, I'd love to see the end result. I hope you'll recoup the money, dude...