Hi all!!!
With some delay, the rename has been decided upon and I wrote a draft announcement. Part of it has to be added still (the paragraph on the bottom and the quotes from other parties) but otherwise it is ready for your input.
SUSE will do a simultaneous announcement on the rename but focussed more on the fact they'll start to provide support for OBS from the 2.3 release onwards.
Reminder: you promised to fix the wiki & help fix the OBS website. Adrian has set up a new site: http://www.suse.de/~adrian/open-build-service.org/
There is a placeholder text which needs your input! Send a replacement text or use an etherpad to work on one?!? ;-)
Cheers, Jos
openSUSE renames OBS
The openSUSE Build Service team has decided to rename its cutting-edge packaging- and distribution build technology to Open Build Service. The new name, while maintaining the well-known OBS acronym, signals its open and cross-distribution nature.
The history The openSUSE Buildservice started out as an internal SUSE technology. In XXXX it was decided to open its source code and development process. From that point on, the scope of the openSUSE Build Service started to widen. First, with the additions of the XXXX build targets, later expanding to the current 21 build targets on 6 architectures. Support for more linux distributions is coming and Windows support being experimented with. But while 'OBS' is meant for a much wider audience than openSUSE, being used by projects and companies like VLC, MeeGo, Dell and many others, its name signals still a distribution-specific purpose.
OBS is an unique piece of technology and certainly deserves to be known and used by a wide audience. Its features like integration with Source Code Management systems including GIT and Subversion and powerful collaboration features make the public instance on build.opensuse.org the preferred build technology for well over 27,000 users.
Communication In communication about OBS its apparently openSUSE-specific nature can be a deterrent. It clearly takes additional effort to convince a potential user that despite the name, the openSUSE Build Service is not <em>just</em> for openSUSE but a distribution-independent technology. This effect is very apparent in face to face communication as you'll almost immediately hear others saying "No, I'm a Fedora user, sorry" when they hear about OBS. But the same effect leads to less people reading articles or visiting talks.
As our openSUSE ambassadors around the world have been stepping up our communication and promotion around OBS, they have noticed this effect. After some discussion on the international marketing mailing list it was decided to recommend the OBS team to rename their technology to Open Build Service. This would retain the OBS acronym and excellent search engine position at the slight expense of a weakened link between the openSUSE community, where OBS originated, and the Build Service.
But it would clearly signal the open and collaborative nature of OBS and allow OBS to spread its wings and reach an even wider audience, benefiting all of Free Software.
Decision So after ample deliberation and discussion with all the major stakeholders, the OBS team has decided to rename the openSUSE Build Service to Open Build Service. It is and will remain an openSUSE project, with significant contributions from SUSE and openSUSE community members as well as many others from communities like MeeGo and VLC but also be more clear about its cross-distribution, cross-project goals and ambitions.
The branding part of OBS will be adapted to make it easy for projects deploying their own OBS to name their OBS while staying connected with the OBS project. We suggest to name a project-specific OBS instance "XXX Open Build Service", like "VLC Open Build Service".
<insert "we love OBS and the rename" quotes from MeeGo, VLC etc here>
Enterprise support Meanwhile, SUSE Linux Products GmbH has announced SUSE OBS Developer Support, xxxxxxx
On Thursday 19 May 2011 17:42:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all!!!
With some delay, the rename has been decided upon and I wrote a draft announcement. Part of it has to be added still (the paragraph on the bottom and the quotes from other parties) but otherwise it is ready for your input.
SUSE will do a simultaneous announcement on the rename but focussed more on the fact they'll start to provide support for OBS from the 2.3 release onwards.
Reminder: you promised to fix the wiki & help fix the OBS website. Adrian has set up a new site: http://www.suse.de/~adrian/open-build-service.org/
There is a placeholder text which needs your input! Send a replacement text or use an etherpad to work on one?!? ;-)
Hint on where text to cut-paste & improve could come from: https://build.opensuse.org/ (duh) http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_comparison http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Build_Service
Cheers, Jos
On Thursday 19 May 2011 17:42:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all!!!
With some delay, the rename has been decided upon and I wrote a draft announcement. Part of it has to be added still (the paragraph on the bottom and the quotes from other parties) but otherwise it is ready for your input.
SUSE will do a simultaneous announcement on the rename but focussed more on the fact they'll start to provide support for OBS from the 2.3 release onwards.
Reminder: you promised to fix the wiki & help fix the OBS website. Adrian has set up a new site: http://www.suse.de/~adrian/open-build-service.org/
There is a placeholder text which needs your input! Send a replacement text or use an etherpad to work on one?!? ;-)
Cheers, Jos
Ping?
This list came up with the idea to rename, I'd hope the people here are also willing to help DO it... Remember, ideas are cheap, anyone can come up with them. Spending an hour sending mails here doesn't really get us further. Spending 10 minutes writing text for a website - now THAT is useful as tens of thousands read that and the mails are only read by 20 people or so ;-)
Le 23/05/2011 10:17, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
This list came up with the idea to rename
renaming is really necessary. It's incredibly difficult to explain to visitors what is OBS, when it's one of the best idea ever! OBS don't even translate (in french at least).
Can somebody explain in, may be, two lines, what exactly the OBS is? I remember a discussion 5 years ago :-) that never could give an answer, but now that many are used with it, we could have one definition.
From this we could try finding a name
hints:
"The OpenSUSE Build Service is a place where programmers can drop they code and have it automatically prepared for use in most Linux distribution and offer the result to the end users"
and name: LinuxStockExchange (LSE?)
thanks jdd
On Monday 23 May 2011 10:27:46 jdd wrote:
Le 23/05/2011 10:17, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
This list came up with the idea to rename
renaming is really necessary. It's incredibly difficult to explain to visitors what is OBS, when it's one of the best idea ever! OBS don't even translate (in french at least).
Well, as you can read, it has been decided to follow the proposal of the marketing team and rename openSUSE Build Service to Open Build Service.
IOW we just DID a rename, which we discussed 2 months ago. We now need to implement it and the first request is to provide a good description for openbuilservice.org.
Can somebody explain in, may be, two lines, what exactly the OBS is? I remember a discussion 5 years ago :-) that never could give an answer, but now that many are used with it, we could have one definition.
From this we could try finding a name
hints:
"The OpenSUSE Build Service is a place where programmers can drop they code and have it automatically prepared for use in most Linux distribution and offer the result to the end users"
and name: LinuxStockExchange (LSE?)
thanks jdd
Am Montag 23 Mai 2011, 10:27:46 schrieb jdd:
Le 23/05/2011 10:17, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
This list came up with the idea to rename
renaming is really necessary. It's incredibly difficult to explain to visitors what is OBS, when it's one of the best idea ever! OBS don't even translate (in french at least).
Can somebody explain in, may be, two lines, what exactly the OBS is?
"The openSUSE Build Service (OBS) is an open and complete distribution development platform. It provides the infrastructure to easily create and release open source software for openSUSE and other Linux distributions on different hardware architectures." [1]
You know, a distribution is a whole bunch of packages that go onto your harddisk in an organized way. These packages (often) contain so called binary files that make sense for computers, not for a human. Software, however is (still) written by humans so they use a computer language that makes sense to humans. To make it consumeable for the computer, this must be translated to binary and put into packages, which is what the buildservice helps nicely.
I remember a discussion 5 years ago :-) that never could give an answer, but now that many are used with it, we could have one definition.
From this we could try finding a name
This discussion is finished AFAIK
hints:
"The OpenSUSE Build Service is a place where programmers can drop they code and have it automatically prepared for use in most Linux distribution and offer the result to the end users"
This is simply wrong. The process is unfortunately not automatic but a lot of work, that is why the project has many people doing work as packagers. The Buildservice is their tool which turns a whole hell lot of work to a lot of work (only).
Klaas
[1] http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Build_Service
On Monday, May 23, 2011 8:05:03 AM Klaas Freitag wrote:
Am Montag 23 Mai 2011, 10:27:46 schrieb jdd:
Le 23/05/2011 10:17, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
This list came up with the idea to rename
renaming is really necessary. It's incredibly difficult to explain to visitors what is OBS, when it's one of the best idea ever! OBS don't even translate (in french at least).
We spent a lot of time renaming it a few months ago. And this acronym (OBS) was a neutral distro recognized as openBuild Service was too.There are several articles on magazines, blogs and websites mention it. We should not spend more time with the name. What I think we need for OBS is a good content explaining what it is able to do for other Linux distros and FOSS Projects.
Can somebody explain in, may be, two lines, what exactly the OBS is?
"The openSUSE Build Service (OBS) is an open and complete distribution development platform. It provides the infrastructure to easily create and release open source software for openSUSE and other Linux distributions on different hardware architectures." [1]
I think it needs to include a wider vision about what the OBS is. Correct me if am I wrong. AFAIK the statement above is true, and OBS pretends to go beyond. You can even build a single package and make it avalable for different operating systems (openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Mageia, including some Windows).So we can look at it as Universal Packager Distributor (UPD) as mature as it becomes to be. Some kind of Software Development Accelerator (SDA)
You know, a distribution is a whole bunch of packages that go onto your harddisk in an organized way. These packages (often) contain so called binary files that make sense for computers, not for a human. Software, however is (still) written by humans so they use a computer language that makes sense to humans. To make it consumeable for the computer, this must be translated to binary and put into packages, which is what the buildservice helps nicely.
I remember a discussion 5 years ago :-) that never could give an answer, but now that many are used with it, we could have one definition.
From this we could try finding a name
This discussion is finished AFAIK
As I mention it above despite a good name could be important is not more essential than a good exponation about what it is capable to do or help to do. Said so, what's the OBS, what can we do with OBS, and who can do it, benefits and advantages for other FOSS and Linux communities.
hints:
"The OpenSUSE Build Service is a place where programmers can drop they code and have it automatically prepared for use in most Linux distribution and offer the result to the end users"
This is simply wrong. The process is unfortunately not automatic but a lot of work, that is why the project has many people doing work as packagers. The Buildservice is their tool which turns a whole hell lot of work to a lot of work (only).
Klaas
Best,
On Monday 23 May 2011 15:59:02 Ricardo Chung wrote:
On Monday, May 23, 2011 8:05:03 AM Klaas Freitag wrote:
Am Montag 23 Mai 2011, 10:27:46 schrieb jdd:
Le 23/05/2011 10:17, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
This list came up with the idea to rename
renaming is really necessary. It's incredibly difficult to explain to visitors what is OBS, when it's one of the best idea ever! OBS don't even translate (in french at least).
We spent a lot of time renaming it a few months ago. And this acronym (OBS) was a neutral distro recognized as openBuild Service was too.There are several articles on magazines, blogs and websites mention it. We should not spend more time with the name. What I think we need for OBS is a good content explaining what it is able to do for other Linux distros and FOSS Projects.
Can somebody explain in, may be, two lines, what exactly the OBS is?
"The openSUSE Build Service (OBS) is an open and complete distribution development platform. It provides the infrastructure to easily create and release open source software for openSUSE and other Linux distributions on different hardware architectures." [1]
I think it needs to include a wider vision about what the OBS is. Correct me if am I wrong. AFAIK the statement above is true, and OBS pretends to go beyond. You can even build a single package and make it avalable for different operating systems (openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Mageia, including some Windows).So we can look at it as Universal Packager Distributor (UPD) as mature as it becomes to be. Some kind of Software Development Accelerator (SDA)
You know, a distribution is a whole bunch of packages that go onto your harddisk in an organized way. These packages (often) contain so called binary files that make sense for computers, not for a human. Software, however is (still) written by humans so they use a computer language that makes sense to humans. To make it consumeable for the computer, this must be translated to binary and put into packages, which is what the buildservice helps nicely.
I remember a discussion 5 years ago :-) that never could give an answer, but now that many are used with it, we could have one definition.
From this we could try finding a name
This discussion is finished AFAIK
As I mention it above despite a good name could be important is not more essential than a good exponation about what it is capable to do or help to do. Said so, what's the OBS, what can we do with OBS, and who can do it, benefits and advantages for other FOSS and Linux communities.
So, we know what OBS is. How to explain that properly is our next step.
I created a piratepad, please go in and help describe OBS for the tens of thousands of users who visit build.opensuse.org and openbuildservice.org!!!
http://piratepad.net/teolsuX2Op
hints:
"The OpenSUSE Build Service is a place where programmers can drop they code and have it automatically prepared for use in most Linux distribution and offer the result to the end users"
This is simply wrong. The process is unfortunately not automatic but a lot of work, that is why the project has many people doing work as packagers. The Buildservice is their tool which turns a whole hell lot of work to a lot of work (only).
Klaas
Best,
This discussion is finished AFAIK
sorry, I was misleaded byt the subject
I created a piratepad, please go in and help describe OBS for the tens of thousands of users who visit build.opensuse.org and openbuildservice.org!!!
I don't know how to insert what I think there.
There are two point of view importants (at least)
1) the programmer point of view. I'm noit a programmer, so I let this to your appreciation
2) the user pont of view. For the user tha OBS is a library of programs ready to install and run. The problem so far is that one have to know the exact program name to ba able to search for it (AFAIK). So the work flow for an user is to search google for the application that fits his needs then search OBS to find it's distribution version
jdd
On Monday 23 May 2011 19:36:30 jdd wrote:
This discussion is finished AFAIK
sorry, I was misleaded byt the subject
I created a piratepad, please go in and help describe OBS for the tens of thousands of users who visit build.opensuse.org and openbuildservice.org!!!
I don't know how to insert what I think there.
There are two point of view importants (at least)
- the programmer point of view. I'm noit a programmer, so I let this
to your appreciation
- the user pont of view. For the user tha OBS is a library of
programs ready to install and run. The problem so far is that one have to know the exact program name to ba able to search for it (AFAIK). So the work flow for an user is to search google for the application that fits his needs then search OBS to find it's distribution version
Yup, that is an issue. And until that is fixed, I don't think we should write the text towards users... which solves the problem, for now ;-)
The site can be changed anytime later on. Once OBS gets a good way of searching and downloading packages, we can update the text.
jdd
On Monday, May 23, 2011 01:25:19 PM Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 23 May 2011 19:36:30 jdd wrote:
This discussion is finished AFAIK
sorry, I was misleaded byt the subject
I created a piratepad, please go in and help describe OBS for the tens of thousands of users who visit build.opensuse.org and openbuildservice.org!!!
I don't know how to insert what I think there.
There are two point of view importants (at least)
- the programmer point of view. I'm noit a programmer, so I let this
to your appreciation
- the user pont of view. For the user tha OBS is a library of
programs ready to install and run. The problem so far is that one have to know the exact program name to ba able to search for it (AFAIK). So the work flow for an user is to search google for the application that fits his needs then search OBS to find it's distribution version
Yup, that is an issue. And until that is fixed, I don't think we should write the text towards users... which solves the problem, for now ;-)
The site can be changed anytime later on. Once OBS gets a good way of searching and downloading packages, we can update the text.
jdd
The current workflow seriously needs to be fixed.
On Monday 23 May 2011 23:35:04 Roger Luedecke wrote:
On Monday, May 23, 2011 01:25:19 PM Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 23 May 2011 19:36:30 jdd wrote:
This discussion is finished AFAIK
sorry, I was misleaded byt the subject
I created a piratepad, please go in and help describe OBS for the tens of thousands of users who visit build.opensuse.org and openbuildservice.org!!!
I don't know how to insert what I think there.
There are two point of view importants (at least)
- the programmer point of view. I'm noit a programmer, so I let this
to your appreciation
- the user pont of view. For the user tha OBS is a library of
programs ready to install and run. The problem so far is that one have to know the exact program name to ba able to search for it (AFAIK). So the work flow for an user is to search google for the application that fits his needs then search OBS to find it's distribution version
Yup, that is an issue. And until that is fixed, I don't think we should write the text towards users... which solves the problem, for now ;-)
The site can be changed anytime later on. Once OBS gets a good way of searching and downloading packages, we can update the text.
jdd
The current workflow seriously needs to be fixed.
true or not, not really on-topic here, we (as in the marketing team) won't be fixing it ;-)
On Tuesday 24 May 2011 00:07:14 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 23 May 2011 23:35:04 Roger Luedecke wrote:
On Monday, May 23, 2011 01:25:19 PM Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 23 May 2011 19:36:30 jdd wrote:
> This discussion is finished AFAIK
sorry, I was misleaded byt the subject
I created a piratepad, please go in and help describe OBS for the tens of thousands of users who visit build.opensuse.org and openbuildservice.org!!!
I don't know how to insert what I think there.
There are two point of view importants (at least)
- the programmer point of view. I'm noit a programmer, so I let this
to your appreciation
- the user pont of view. For the user tha OBS is a library of
programs ready to install and run. The problem so far is that one have to know the exact program name to ba able to search for it (AFAIK). So the work flow for an user is to search google for the application that fits his needs then search OBS to find it's distribution version
Yup, that is an issue. And until that is fixed, I don't think we should write the text towards users... which solves the problem, for now ;-)
The site can be changed anytime later on. Once OBS gets a good way of searching and downloading packages, we can update the text.
jdd
The current workflow seriously needs to be fixed.
true or not, not really on-topic here, we (as in the marketing team) won't be fixing it ;-)
PS feel free to kick adrian in the balls if you have issues, but if you take that litterally I recommend you kick hard to make sure he can't come after you ;-)
Serious, workflow things need fixing indeed, but what he needs is CONCRETE SUGGESTIONS. Not of the type "fix it" or even "this and this doesn't make sense" but "this works like this now. It makes more sense if it would work like this. See a mock up I made".
The coding doesn't take much time - it is the thinking about what the best solution is that takes a lot of time. And that exactly is what people could help with if they were willing to put in a little more thought.
;-)
Le 24/05/2011 00:09, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
The coding doesn't take much time - it is the thinking about what the best solution is that takes a lot of time. And that exactly is what people could help with if they were willing to put in a little more thought.
;-)
we could think of "best OBS for users", but probably on an other thread?
jdd
Hi,
Am Dienstag 24 Mai 2011, 00:09:32 schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
The current workflow seriously needs to be fixed.
true or not, not really on-topic here, we (as in the marketing team) won't be fixing it ;-)
PS feel free to kick adrian in the balls if you have issues, but if you take that litterally I recommend you kick hard to make sure he can't come after you ;-)
In this case it will be me and others coming after you, believe me. Is that btw the kind of speach and behaviour you're appreciating here in the marketing group, smiley or not?
Serious, workflow things need fixing indeed, but what he needs is CONCRETE SUGGESTIONS. Not of the type "fix it" or even "this and this doesn't make sense" but "this works like this now. It makes more sense if it would work like this. See a mock up I made".
Very true. As being a developer I can tell you that people stepping up with the message "Your software would be great if feature ABC would be there and I can tell you how to do it but will not do it!" are more demotivating to fix something than you would expect.
The coding doesn't take much time
Nice dreams of marketing ;-)
- it is the thinking about what the best solution is that takes a lot
of time. And that exactly is what people could help with if they were willing to put in a little more thought.
Hmm, I disagree, sorry to contradict. Better do what the FOSS world moves forever: Write patches, either on code or marketing material, does not matter. Convert ideas to code or texts or artwork, whatever, but do not post them purely on MLs hoping that others will pick up. People who really do things usually have enough ideas of what they want to do. They never wait for others posting an idea to make them doing something.
regards,
Klaas
On Tuesday 24 May 2011 10:20:05 Klaas Freitag wrote:
Hi,
Am Dienstag 24 Mai 2011, 00:09:32 schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
The current workflow seriously needs to be fixed.
true or not, not really on-topic here, we (as in the marketing team) won't be fixing it ;-)
PS feel free to kick adrian in the balls if you have issues, but if you take that litterally I recommend you kick hard to make sure he can't come after you ;-)
In this case it will be me and others coming after you, believe me.
sweet :D
Is that btw the kind of speach and behaviour you're appreciating here in the marketing group, smiley or not?
Ok, it is a joke, maybe a weird one... Appologies, I'll try and better my life & watch my language.
Serious, workflow things need fixing indeed, but what he needs is CONCRETE SUGGESTIONS. Not of the type "fix it" or even "this and this doesn't make sense" but "this works like this now. It makes more sense if it would work like this. See a mock up I made".
Very true. As being a developer I can tell you that people stepping up with the message "Your software would be great if feature ABC would be there and I can tell you how to do it but will not do it!" are more demotivating to fix something than you would expect.
The coding doesn't take much time
Nice dreams of marketing ;-)
Well, I'm exaggerating, I know the coding takes serious time...
- it is the thinking about what the best solution is that takes a lot
of time. And that exactly is what people could help with if they were willing to put in a little more thought.
Hmm, I disagree, sorry to contradict. Better do what the FOSS world moves forever: Write patches, either on code or marketing material, does not matter. Convert ideas to code or texts or artwork, whatever, but do not post them purely on MLs hoping that others will pick up. People who really do things usually have enough ideas of what they want to do. They never wait for others posting an idea to make them doing something.
Of course. But notice most ppl here really are no coders :D
From most devs I talk to I often hear that thinking about workflow, about UI, can take a lot of time. Especially if you want to get it really right, and Adrian is a perfectionist as I've heard... So a concrete suggestion for a workflow improvement is very valuable esp compared to a vague "make it more logical" kind of statement... Especially considering what might be logical to a developer is not to a packager or an user :D
regards,
Klaas
On Thursday 19 May 2011 17:42:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all!!!
With some delay, the rename has been decided upon and I wrote a draft announcement. Part of it has to be added still (the paragraph on the bottom and the quotes from other parties) but otherwise it is ready for your input.
SUSE will do a simultaneous announcement on the rename but focussed more on the fact they'll start to provide support for OBS from the 2.3 release onwards.
Reminder: you promised to fix the wiki & help fix the OBS website. Adrian has set up a new site: http://www.suse.de/~adrian/open-build-service.org/
There is a placeholder text which needs your input! Send a replacement text or use an etherpad to work on one?!? ;-)
Cheers, Jos
Hi all,
After some deliberation AJ and me thought it'd be a pretty good idea to delay the announcement of the rename a bit... We still need some quotes for the announcement and on the SUSE side the announcement of support isn't done yet either. It'll be Thursday.
CHeers, Jos
-
jdd -
Jos Poortvliet -
Jos Poortvliet -
Klaas Freitag -
Ricardo Chung -
Roger Luedecke