At Wed, 20 May 2009 09:41:49 +0900, Satoru Matsumoto wrote:

Takashi Iwai wrote:

...

I created packages for IPA fonts on OBS M17N:Devel repo (it's also a new sub-project) for testing.

It's based on the new IPA fonts with a new, better license. The major differences are: - JIS X 0213:2004 compliant - All fonts are OTF instead of TTF - IPAUIGothic is dropped

It seems working fine on my systems, but any further tests would be appreciated.

Suppose the packages work fine, any objections to replace the package on FACTORY with this?

Thanks, Iwai-san.

The *new* IPA fonts have a known problem: in Qt applications, alphabets are displayed as Zenkaku - full-width characters. I installed these packages on my openSUSE 11.1 x86_64 box and confirmed the problem on KDE4 desktop.

Thanks for the follow up! Is it Qt4 or Qt3?

Here are some examples:

http://geeko.homelinux.org:20080/opensuse/m17n/yast2.jpg http://geeko.homelinux.org:20080/opensuse/m17n/kpowersave.jpg http://geeko.homelinux.org:20080/opensuse/m17n/thunderbird_pgp_signature_pro...

Interesting that you have the normal font widths in the window title.

AFAIK, this problem has been reported to the upstream - IPA - already. However, should we report this problem to our bugzilla ?

I don't think it's for bugzilla because it's not in the SUSE Factory or any official package yet.

In addition, you can find some other informations related this new IPA fonts in the blog entry, which written by one of Ubuntu Japanese Team members. (Sorry, the article is only in Japanese.) http://blog.goo.ne.jp/ikunya/e/798dabe5e4c85a9806530e4280694ac1

Thanks for the pointer. It sounds like we should postpone to replace the old one... Let's keep it just in M17N:Devel. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Takashi Iwai wrote:

...

...

The *new* IPA fonts have a known problem: in Qt applications, alphabets are displayed as Zenkaku - full-width characters. I installed these packages on my openSUSE 11.1 x86_64 box and confirmed the problem on KDE4 desktop. Thanks for the follow up! Is it Qt4 or Qt3?

OK, I could reproduce it on my machine, too. It looks like a known problem of Qt3 regarding OTF. A workaround is simply convert from OTF to TTF.

Now the IPA font package on M17N:Devel repo does the conversion via fontforge. Could you give it at try again?

I installed newly updated packages and as far as I can see, they work fine now. However, there are descriptions below in "IPA Font License Agreement": Article 3 (Restriction) 1. If a Derived Program is Redistributed pursuant to Paragraph 4 and 7 of the preceding Article, the following conditions must be met : [snip] (4)No one may use or include the name of the Licensed Program as a program name, font name or file name of the Derived Program. [snip] http://ossipedia.ipa.go.jp/ipafont/#LicenseEng Do you think there shouldn't be any problems if we use 'IPA*' for names of the packages, that include converted ttf files ? Best, - -- _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto - openSUSE Member - Japan _/_/ _/_/ Marketing/Weekly News/openFATE Screening Team _/_/ _/_/ mail: helios_reds_at_gmx.net / irc: HeliosReds _/_/ _/_/ http://blog.geeko.jp/author/heliosreds _/_/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpA9ekACgkQXnHIfHE6+z0rHACfRJDIuynHz2cr4sG8wCP2gI74 1FUAnAlnB6oyCcZ1PrtZ32fjNsDFuiLS =lSGi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

The best solution is, of course, to fix Qt3. But I guess no one has a guts to challenge it...

I don't think Qt3 will be ever fixed to support .otf. I made bug reports about the lack of .otf support in Qt3 years ago. Qt4 supports it now but I doubt that this will be backported to Qt3. -- Mike FABIAN 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

At Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:18:40 +0200, I wrote:

Hi Mike,

good to hear back from you!

At Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:20:11 +0200, Mike FABIAN wrote:

...

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

...

The best solution is, of course, to fix Qt3. But I guess no one has a guts to challenge it...

I don't think Qt3 will be ever fixed to support .otf.

I made bug reports about the lack of .otf support in Qt3 years ago.

Qt4 supports it now but I doubt that this will be backported to Qt3.

That's my expectation, too.

If the conversion in the package is a problem, at most, we can provide a conversion script in the package so that the user can do it manually if needed. But I'd like to avoid this either, obviously.

Do you still remember what was exactly the problem in Qt3? I have only a vague memory that we talked about this before a lunch :) Is it about qt3 taking the bi-width or zero-width or...?

I pursued this problem a bit more. A bad news is that it's actually no Qt3-issue but rather about fontconfig / freetype. A good news is that there is already a workaround for such a problem. Simply setting globaladvance to false for these fonts should suffice. I changed the spec file again to package OTF files and added a config file to override that attribute. The packages were checked into M17N:Devel again now. Please let me know if you see the similar problems again even with the new packages. thanks, Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

At Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:13:23 +0900, Satoru Matsumoto wrote:

Takashi Iwai wrote:

...

At Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:18:40 +0200,

...

I pursued this problem a bit more. A bad news is that it's actually no Qt3-issue but rather about fontconfig / freetype. A good news is that there is already a workaround for such a problem. Simply setting globaladvance to false for these fonts should suffice.

I changed the spec file again to package OTF files and added a config file to override that attribute. The packages were checked into M17N:Devel again now.

Please let me know if you see the similar problems again even with the new packages.

As far as I can see, the problem has been solved with IPA*-003.01-65.1 packages.

So, I think issues that remains to be reviewed for the next release are:

- Are there any adverse effects that caused by setting globaladvance to false for these fonts ?

The question is whether this influences on the real mono-space behavior. Are IPAGothic (not PGothic) and Mincho shown with the right, fixed pitch as before?

- How should we handle IPAUIGothic font that is not distributed under new license ?

Unless IPA provides it again, we can't include it in the new package. At most, create another package just for IAPUIGothic from the old font tarball. We could provide it on M17N repo, but not necessarily on FACTORY, IMO. thanks, Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

At Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:08:43 +0200, Mike FABIAN wrote:

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

...

I pursued this problem a bit more. A bad news is that it's actually no Qt3-issue but rather about fontconfig / freetype. A good news is that there is already a workaround for such a problem. Simply setting globaladvance to false for these fonts should suffice.

I didn't yet have time to check the new fonts. But I did already set globaladvance to false for all CJK dual-width fonts in /etc/fonts/suse-pre-user.conf:

<!-- The dual-width Asian fonts (spacing=dual) are not rendered correctly, apparently Xft forces all widths to match. Trying to disable the width forcing code by setting globaladvance=false alone doesn't help. As a brute force workaround, also set spacing=proportional, i.e. handle them as proportional fonts: -->

<match target="font"> <test name="lang" compare="contains"> <string>ja</string> <string>zh</string> <string>ko</string> </test> <test name="spacing" compare="eq"> <const>dual</const> </test> <edit name="spacing"> <const>proportional</const> </edit> <edit name="globaladvance" binding="strong"> <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>

Wasn't this enough?

Apparently not.

Don't the new fonts match the "dual"?

Doesn't look so. fc-list gives no fonts with dual spacing. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

At Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:19:03 +0200, Mike FABIAN wrote:

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

...

...

Wasn't this enough?

Apparently not.

...

Don't the new fonts match the "dual"?

Doesn't look so. fc-list gives no fonts with dual spacing.

Strange, on my openSUSE 11.0 system fc-list lists tons of fonts with dual spacing:

mike@kawasemi:~$ fc-list :spacing=90 | wc 42 53 2151 mike@kawasemi:~$

My bad, yes, there are those. (I checked the result with a space after colon...) Actually, IPAGothic and IPAMincho are such ones. The problem was, however, about IPAP*. These are not with dual spacing. As they are usually used for normal fonts, but it lacks globaladvance=false. Maybe if IPAPGothic wasn't installed, it has worked because IPAGochic would be used instead. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

At Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:49:40 +0200, Mike FABIAN wrote:

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

...

The problem was, however, about IPAP*. These are not with dual spacing. As they are usually used for normal fonts, but it lacks globaladvance=false. Maybe if IPAPGothic wasn't installed, it has worked because IPAGochic would be used instead.

I always had them both installed and IPAPGothic had higher priority in /etc/fonts/suse-post-user.conf.

So this looks like a newly introduced bug in the new fonts. Looks like the font has the flag for fixed with fonts set:

mike@kawasemi:/tmp/ttt$ ttx -d . /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ipagp.otf Dumping "/usr/share/fonts/truetype/ipagp.otf" to "./ipagp.ttx"... Dumping 'GlyphOrder' table... Dumping 'head' table... Dumping 'hhea' table... Dumping 'maxp' table... Dumping 'OS/2' table... Dumping 'hmtx' table... Dumping 'cmap' table... Dumping 'prep' table... Dumping 'loca' table... Dumping 'glyf' table... Dumping 'name' table... Dumping 'post' table... Dumping 'gasp' table... Dumping 'GDEF' table... Dumping 'GPOS' table... Dumping 'GSUB' table... Dumping 'vhea' table... Dumping 'vmtx' table... mike@kawasemi:/tmp/ttt$ grep isFixed ipagp.ttx <isFixedPitch value="1"/> mike@kawasemi:/tmp/ttt$

Indeed... BTW, what program is ttx? Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

Mike FABIAN さんは書きました:

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

...

The problem was, however, about IPAP*. These are not with dual spacing. As they are usually used for normal fonts, but it lacks globaladvance=false. Maybe if IPAPGothic wasn't installed, it has worked because IPAGochic would be used instead.

The workaround of setting globaladvance=false somehow doesn’t seem to work for skype 2.0. No idea why not at the moment. -- Mike FABIAN 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

...

The workaround of setting globaladvance=false somehow doesn’t seem to work for skype 2.0. No idea why not at the moment.

Hm, I can't reproduce the problem. It works fine on my machine...

I still don’t have any idea why, I remember that I used to be able to influence the fonts used by skype with /usr/bin/qtconfig. But somehow that doesn’t work now, it always uses ipagp.otf: mike@kawasemi:~$ grep fonts /proc/$(pidof skype)/maps f71e0000-f7557000 r-xp 00000000 08:03 2629651 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ipagp.otf mike@kawasemi:~$ Maybe it doesn’t work because I am using a statically built skype on a 64bit system. The only workaround I found so far is starting it in a different locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 skype Usually I use ja_JP.UTF-8 and fc-match gives ipagp.otf on my system in Japanese locale: mike@kawasemi:~$ fc-match ipagp.otf: "IPAPGothic" "Regular" mike@kawasemi:~$ -- Mike FABIAN 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

Do you still remember what was exactly the problem in Qt3? I have only a vague memory that we talked about this before a lunch :) Is it about qt3 taking the bi-width or zero-width or...?

It cannot print. I.e. if you look at a webpage in konqueror3 using .otf fonts and try to print, they cannot be embedded, which usually means you get a garbled printout. -- Mike FABIAN 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org

Takashi Iwai さんは書きました:

Ah, yes. Printing CJK with Qt3 is problematic...

Though, Qt3 apps will be really less on FACTORY (and 11.2), so maybe this won't be a pretty critical issue. It couldn't work with TTC, anyway :)

Yes, it only worked with .ttf. -- Mike FABIAN 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+help@opensuse.org