Missing rpm2 in KDE-3.4s SuSE-8.2 folder?
Hi, I already send the following question to kde-linux@mail.kde.org, but I got no answer at this moment: After updating my system at home (running with SuSE 9.2) to KDE-3.4 and being happy about the very nice new version I tried to update my system at work to the new version. Don't blame me: This system is a 8.2-SuSE system (yes, I know it's VERY out-of-date), but it works solid, and I didn't find the time to update it! Now I'm wondering: Under ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.4/SuSE/ix86/8.2 I see only 58 files (147 MB), but under ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.4/SuSE/ix86/9.2 there are 100 files (238 MB). Many rpms that I would expect (such as kdebase-3.4.* ) could not be found within the SuSE-8.2-directory. What's wrong with the 8.2-binarys? Could an open ear found at suse-kde@lists.suse.com? Any help would be appreciated :-)!! Regards, Thomas -- Thomas Stieler <stieler@schlund.de> Entwicklung Unix/Linux Schlund + Partner AG http://www.schlund.de Brauerstraße 48 Tel. +49 721 91374-0 76135 Karlsruhe Fax. +49 721 91374-212
Thomas, El Lun 21 Mar 2005 11:39, Thomas Stieler escribió:
Many rpms that I would expect (such as kdebase-3.4.* ) could not be found within the SuSE-8.2-directory.
What's wrong with the 8.2-binarys?
Well, I last week posted the same question, without getting any answers. I am also still running 8.2 systems, which are stable and doing their job very well. This isn't MS Windows, so why should there be blame if you decide not to upgrade? Very soon 9.3 will be out, and I believe 8.2 will then not longer be maintained by SuSE. That is, no more security updates for their rpm packages, no more precompiled KDE or Gnome packages, etc. Maybe SuSE in the coming days and weeks will complete the packages for KDE 3.4, but I suspect that may rather no be the case. I decided to compile from source, using the Konstruct tool set which can be downloaded from the KDE website. Many libraries on my systems had been updated by compiling the respective source packages before, as the rpm packages offered by SuSE for 8.2 are versions two years old, and many times I had to update libraries to be able to compile and use recent versions of software like GIMP. Maybe there are some dependencies for KDE which must be provided for in SuSE 8.2, rather than providing simply KDE packages on top of all the rest - an obvious one is cyrus-sasl, which needs to be newer than the 2.0.12 version distributed with 8.2. I would have preferred if SuSE had simply announced that KDE 3.4 will not be provided any more on 8.2. Putting on their servers some packages and not others is simply confusing. Without the kdebase3 packages, the 'base' system of KDE, including Konqueror, will not be updated. I don't know which problems that may cause, as I decided to try and see how it can be done from source, as very soon this will be the only method left to us who opt to not upgrade stable machines in which many hours of tweaking and configuration work have been invested. Try it out - you even can install KDE from source in a directory different from that where the current version lives, so the risk is minimal. Regards, -- Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com
Am Montag, 21. März 2005 18:15 schrieb Andreas Philipp:
Thomas,
El Lun 21 Mar 2005 11:39, Thomas Stieler escribió:
Many rpms that I would expect (such as kdebase-3.4.* ) could not be found within the SuSE-8.2-directory.
What's wrong with the 8.2-binarys?
Well, I last week posted the same question, without getting any answers. I am also still running 8.2 systems, which are stable and doing their job very well. This isn't MS Windows, so why should there be blame if you decide not to upgrade?
Well, see it this way: If you bought Windows 98 many years ago, it will work on the same machine with the same power and the same features. If you bought SuSE 8.2 it had the KDE which was actual at that time. It will still have all this functionality in 100 years. But if you need new features and really new versions of a program (not bugfixes), then you have to upgrade. Often a new version of one program relies on 20-30 newer versions of other programs but then there are 30-40 versions of programs which needs the old version of the other packages and would need an upgrade, too. And then there are another 50 programs......... You get the point. So at a certain point, updating KDE on a box would mean to release 400 or 500 new packages to this system. And all of them might introduce serious unknown bugs, so they would need further testing by SuSE. You just can make that by yourself if you have enough time and knowledge, but SuSE cannot efford to make this incredible work for every release they ever made and then give you the DVD iso of all these versions for free, too. If they would do that, then SuSE would not be availiable for free download, but would cost 400 Euros.... I don't want to offend you, I just want to state my private opinion on this subject. Best, Daniel
Daniel, El Lun 21 Mar 2005 14:23, Daniel Eckl escribió:
You just can make that by yourself if you have enough time and knowledge, but SuSE cannot efford to make this incredible work for every release they ever made and then give you the DVD iso of all these versions for free, too. If they would do that, then SuSE would not be availiable for free download, but would cost 400 Euros....
You see, that is exactly what I am doing. I acquired and installed a Linux distro two years ago, and configured and tweaked everything I needed so it might work as I want it to work. I update the packages I regularly use or those for which security issues have been publiziced, but I see no pressing requirement to update the whole distribution on those stable machines. In my previous post I never implied that SuSE was in any obligation to provide updated packages for this new KDE release. I even mentioned that 8.2 is nearing its end of support deadline. But if your reasoning is what prevents SuSE to provide a full set of KDE 3.4 packages for 8.2, SuSE should make that clear to its users. Users just want to know what's up. I had no problems compiling KDE from source, and those dependencies that showed up could be resolved. What I wouldn't like to do is to upgrade part of my KDE system, while the base packages remain in the previous version, because SuSE felt it wasn't worth the effort to provide those packages, as well. Simply be clear about the issue, that is what I was asking for.
I don't want to offend you, I just want to state my private opinion on this subject.
You didn't offend me, and I never understood your contribution as anything other than your private opinion.
Best, Daniel
Regards, -- Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com
Op maandag 21 maart 2005 21:05, schreef Andreas Philipp:
But if your reasoning is what prevents SuSE to provide a full set of KDE 3.4 packages for 8.2, SuSE should make that clear to its users. Users just want to know what's up.
Andreas, kde is provided by SUSE via the supplementary directory. This is an additional thing for suse users, without garantee or support. It may be there or not.... From this you know already that kde may not be there :(( -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Richard, El Lun 21 Mar 2005 15:09, Richard Bos escribió:
kde is provided by SUSE via the supplementary directory. This is an additional thing for suse users, without garantee or support. It may be there or not.... From this you know already that kde may not be there :((
If you look into the SuSE server's supplementary directory for SuSE 8.2 you will find that the update is partly there. Several people have been posting questions on this and other lists and boards about this situation. It's confusing. It invites to partly update your KDE, and possibly those parts for which the effort seemed worthwhile to SuSE. I don't like this update policy. On the KDE update page on the SuSE/Novell website there are links to the supposed updates for 8.2 to 9.2. For 9.0 to 9.2 these updates seem to be complete, for 8.2 it is not. If SuSE decides to provide an update, let it be complete, including the kdebase3 packages. If not, fine. But let your users know, don't just provide quietly a confusing partial update. BTW, never did I ask for or demand any support or guarantee. -- Andreas Philipp Noema Ltda. Bogotá, D.C. - Colombia http://www.noemasol.com
Op maandag 21 maart 2005 21:24, schreef Andreas Philipp:
If SuSE decides to provide an update, let it be complete, including the kdebase3 packages. If not, fine. But let your users know, don't just provide quietly a confusing partial update. BTW, never did I ask for or demand any support or guarantee.
Agree -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Oh, I misread your email. Well then please take my post as a standalone one :) Sorry... Daniel Am Montag, 21. März 2005 18:15 schrieb Andreas Philipp:
Thomas,
El Lun 21 Mar 2005 11:39, Thomas Stieler escribió:
Many rpms that I would expect (such as kdebase-3.4.* ) could not be found within the SuSE-8.2-directory.
What's wrong with the 8.2-binarys?
Well, I last week posted the same question, without getting any answers. I am also still running 8.2 systems, which are stable and doing their job very well. This isn't MS Windows, so why should there be blame if you decide not to upgrade?
participants (4)
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Andreas Philipp -
Daniel Eckl -
Richard Bos -
Thomas Stieler