[opensuse-kde] 13.1 release version 4.11.x?
If yes, does that automatically mean KScreen 1.0? If yes, that apparently means some people won't be able to use 13.1's KDM4. KScreen 1.1 looks like will be required to restore usability I depend on. Maybe I can bypass KScreen 1.0 by using KDM3 with KDE4 apps? See thread beginning: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2013-June/002248.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 01 of July 2013 09:10:59 Felix Miata wrote:
If yes, does that automatically mean KScreen 1.0? If yes, that apparently means some people won't be able to use 13.1's KDM4. KScreen 1.1 looks like will be required to restore usability I depend on. Maybe I can bypass KScreen 1.0 by using KDM3 with KDE4 apps? See thread beginning: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2013-June/002248.html
Yes, target for 13.1 is get KScreen by default. Now, i don't quite understand what that has to do with kdm? Also, one can install krandr package, which would remove the kscreen one, and thus restore <= 12.3 setup. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-07-01 15:30 (GMT+0200) šumski composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
If yes, does that automatically mean KScreen 1.0? If yes, that apparently means some people won't be able to use 13.1's KDM4. KScreen 1.1 looks like will be required to restore usability I depend on. Maybe I can bypass KScreen 1.0 by using KDM3 with KDE4 apps? See thread beginning: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2013-June/002248.html
Yes, target for 13.1 is get KScreen by default. Now, i don't quite understand what that has to do with kdm?
I don't understand how kdm and the various kdebase packages play together. Based on its name, kdm would seem to be a display _manager_, which to me implies doing more than just sitting there waiting on someone to trigger something from among a limited supply of possible actions, then going sleep until next time.
Also, one can install krandr package, which would remove the kscreen one, and thus restore <= 12.3 setup.
There was no allusion to such possibility in the cited thread. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 01 of July 2013 14:02:30 Felix Miata wrote:
Based on its name, kdm would seem to be a display _manager_, which to me implies doing more than just sitting there waiting on someone to trigger something from among a limited supply of possible actions, then going sleep until next time. It does *exactly* that http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kde-workspace/kdm/introduction.html Nevermind the terminology, neither using e.g. xdm, lightdm, or startx, one wouldn't achive anything different than using kdm. It is about kscreen/krandr, or, a users session, not how he opens it.
There was no allusion to such possibility in the cited thread. Now i again don't understand this. What does KScreen overriding xorg.conf has to do with krandr? For explanation - (lib)kscreen is separate from kde-workspace module. In order for it to work, one has to disable krandr's kded module. For making this procedure automagic, we have, for 4.11, splitted krandr parts into a separate subpackage which cannot exist installed on ones system together with KScreen. We have made KScreen as default, but as said, one can install krandr, and have the setup as is now with 12.3. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-07-01 20:28 (GMT+0200) šumski composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Based on its name, kdm would seem to be a display _manager_, which to me implies doing more than just sitting there waiting on someone to trigger something from among a limited supply of possible actions, then going sleep until next time.
It does *exactly* that http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kde-workspace/kdm/introduction.html
I did not know that.
Nevermind the terminology, neither using e.g. xdm, lightdm, or startx, one wouldn't achive anything different than using kdm.
Well then it seems *dm could all be better named. They are action selectors, little but menus and login input processors, not managers.
It is about kscreen/krandr, or, a users session, not how he opens it.
There was no allusion to such possibility in the cited thread.
Now i again don't understand this. What does KScreen overriding xorg.conf has to do with krandr?
This is what the cited thread was about. Fedora 19's KScreen ~v1.0 behaves in an unacceptably different way than krandr did WRT xorg.conf. The option to defer use of KScreen until v1.1 is available appears to be the solution I need to keep 4.11 usable.
For explanation - (lib)kscreen is separate from kde-workspace module. In order for it to work, one has to disable krandr's kded module. For making this procedure automagic, we have, for 4.11, splitted krandr parts into a separate subpackage which cannot exist installed on ones system together with KScreen. We have made KScreen as default, but as said, one can install krandr, and have the setup as is now with 12.3.
Who is the "we" that has done this separation that enables continued behavior that matches 12.3? Are you speaking on exclusive behalf of openSUSE developers? Is this "split" and/or option to use KRandr instead of KScreen in 4.11 a 13.1 feature missing from a standard KDE 4.11 installation? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
In data lunedì 01 luglio 2013 15:05:27, Felix Miata ha scritto: Hello,
Who is the "we" that has done this separation that enables continued behavior that matches 12.3? Are you speaking on exclusive behalf of
"We" corresponds to the members of the openSUSE KDE team: most of the grunt work is done by shumski and Raymond, with help from Alin and me who mostly handles communication (including with upstream) and Python packaging. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79
On 2013-07-01 21:14 (GMT+200) Luca Beltrame composed:
Felix Miata composed:
Who is the "we" that has done this separation that enables continued behavior that matches 12.3? Are you speaking on exclusive behalf of
"We" corresponds to the members of the openSUSE KDE team: most of the grunt work is done by shumski and Raymond, with help from Alin and me who mostly handles communication (including with upstream) and Python packaging.
One reason I asked is that I was under an impression that there is or was substantial overlap between the pool of serious (open)SUSE developers and the pool of serious KDE developers. The fact that Luca replied to my question illustrates a problem some people like me have with name associations that lead to me asking questions like the one that I did. You write that "we" represents (open)SUSE's KDE team, yet write from an @kde email address, and in addition, append a .sig indicating what looks like an upstream association exclusive of (open)SUSE association. OTOH, šumski and Raymond write from @gmail addresses and append no .sigs at all. Raymond's name I had already learned, but šumski's I don't recall ever having seen before today (like Alin's), hence my question to šumski's reply. It's much more easily inferred who is speaking on whose behalf or with what authority when to know so is of some relevance and/or importance when it's someone like Andreas Jaeger writing from an @novell or Stephan Kulow writing from an @suse or Cristian Rodriguez writing from an @opensuse email address, or at least if not one of those three email domains, someone who appends a helpful .sig to list mail. It's hard to give credit where & when it is due when the where is nebulous. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
In data lunedì 01 luglio 2013 16:19:43, Felix Miata ha scritto:
the one that I did. You write that "we" represents (open)SUSE's KDE team, yet write from an @kde email address, and in addition, append a .sig
In my specific case, it is by purpose, because I'm still more upstream than downstream: my main "duty" is doing forum administration and user support in the KDE Community Forums (and occasional development).
all. Raymond's name I had already learned, but šumski's I don't recall ever having seen before today (like Alin's), hence my question to šumski's reply.
Shumski was mentioned before in a few blog posts[1][2] which hit both Planet KDE and planet openSUSE. [1] http://www.dennogumi.org/2013/01/kde-workspaces-and-applications-4-10-on-liv... [2] http://www.dennogumi.org/2012/10/whats-cooking-for-kde-in-opensuse-12-3-them... -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79
On Monday 01 July 2013 16:19:43 Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-07-01 21:14 (GMT+200) Luca Beltrame composed:
Felix Miata composed:
Who is the "we" that has done this separation that enables continued behavior that matches 12.3? Are you speaking on exclusive behalf of
"We" corresponds to the members of the openSUSE KDE team: most of the grunt work is done by shumski and Raymond, with help from Alin and me who mostly handles communication (including with upstream) and Python packaging.
One reason I asked is that I was under an impression that there is or was substantial overlap between the pool of serious (open)SUSE developers and the pool of serious KDE developers.
The fact that Luca replied to my question illustrates a problem some people like me have with name associations that lead to me asking questions like the one that I did. You write that "we" represents (open)SUSE's KDE team, yet write from an @kde email address, and in addition, append a .sig indicating what looks like an upstream association exclusive of (open)SUSE association.
OTOH, šumski and Raymond write from @gmail addresses and append no .sigs at all. Raymond's name I had already learned, but šumski's I don't recall ever having seen before today (like Alin's), hence my question to šumski's reply.
It's much more easily inferred who is speaking on whose behalf or with what authority when to know so is of some relevance and/or importance when it's someone like Andreas Jaeger writing from an @novell or Stephan Kulow writing from an @suse or Cristian Rodriguez writing from an @opensuse email address, or at least if not one of those three email domains, someone who appends a helpful .sig to list mail.
It's hard to give credit where & when it is due when the where is nebulous.
Nebulous is indeed the name of the game in open source communities when it comes to people, I guess it is how it works. Wisest thing to do is always be respectful, you might be talking to Coolo or, heck, Linus Torvalds, without knowing who he is ;-) coolo recently shared, privately, a fun email from somebody lecturing him on release management. Rest assured, it was VERY funny as it was crystal clear the guy had NO idea who he was calling 'incompetent and clearly unexperienced'. Lesson: don't yell at people until you have figured out who they are. Better yet: don't yell at all. It often makes you look stupid ;-) And yes, we all made this mistake, hey, see it as part of the charm of Free Software. Low barriers means you can find yourself talking to super cool folk without knowing it!
On Monday 01 July 2013 09:10:59 Felix Miata wrote:
If yes, does that automatically mean KScreen 1.0? If yes, that apparently means some people won't be able to use 13.1's KDM4. KScreen 1.1 looks like will be required to restore usability I depend on. Maybe I can bypass KScreen 1.0 by using KDM3 with KDE4 apps? See thread beginning: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2013-June/002248.html
As Luca already indicated, we will ship 4.11.x with the next openSUSE release. It will contain KScreen and it will be the preferred method to deal with screen settings. Which KScreen version will be delivered depends on its release schedule. For the minority that would require a different screen setup or can not work with KScreen for whatever reason, have the option to remove it from their system and to return/stay with the old xrandr/krandr solution. I guess you meant to use KDE3 with KDE4 apps, because switching just KDM3 will not really help as that the KDE4 workspace will still start KScreen if installed. Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-07-01 15:33 (GMT+0200) Raymond Wooninck composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
If yes, does that automatically mean KScreen 1.0? If yes, that apparently means some people won't be able to use 13.1's KDM4. KScreen 1.1 looks like will be required to restore usability I depend on. Maybe I can bypass KScreen 1.0 by using KDM3 with KDE4 apps? See thread beginning: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2013-June/002248.html
As Luca already indicated, we will ship 4.11.x with the next openSUSE release. It will contain KScreen and it will be the preferred method to deal with screen settings.
That thread failed to indicate some other method might be an option.
Which KScreen version will be delivered depends on its release schedule.
Is it one of those string dependent things that gets shut out 3 months before GA happens? Does it depend on some particular subversion of kdebase4-workspace, or is it more like a standalone app able to be advanced or held back out of sync with the rest of KDE basics?
For the minority that would require a different screen setup or can not work with KScreen for whatever reason, have the option to remove it from their system and to return/stay with the old xrandr/krandr solution.
:-)
I guess you meant to use KDE3 with KDE4 apps, because switching just KDM3 will not really help as that the KDE4 workspace will still start KScreen if installed.
I had no idea what KScreen hooks into or depends on it or vice versa. Your response helps, but I wonder whether there is more to know that might matter to a non-programmer like me. I've done very little intentional mixing of KDE3 with KDE4. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-07-01 09:10 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
If yes, does that automatically mean KScreen 1.0? If yes, that apparently means some people won't be able to use 13.1's KDM4. KScreen 1.1 looks like will be required to restore usability I depend on. Maybe I can bypass KScreen 1.0 by using KDM3 with KDE4 apps? See thread beginning: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2013-June/002248.html
Upstream bug https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929 reports KScreen 1.1 expected to be released 04 Aug should solve my problem. Is that date soon enough to beat 13.1 string freeze? Is string freeze even relevant for this package? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 04 of July 2013 12:43:56 Felix Miata wrote:
Is that date soon enough to beat 13.1 string freeze? Is string freeze even relevant for this package? According to this[1] page, yes, it's soon enough
-------- [1] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Roadmap -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
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Felix Miata -
Jos Poortvliet -
Luca Beltrame -
Raymond Wooninck -
šumski