Am Samstag, 8. Oktober 2011, 18:53:17 schrieb Sven Burmeister:
Am Samstag, 8. Oktober 2011, 13:09:15 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Lørdag den 8. oktober 2011 12:17:32 skrev Sven Burmeister:
I agree with this. I got the impression that over the last few weeks, maybe months, KDE within openSUSE lost a bit of focus and momentum. I guess that's simply because there is no time or maybe the need to work on other non-KDE stuff within openSUSE. Examples are the UpdatedApps repo which does not have an official openSUSE maintainer anymore,
We're trying to kill this distinction between employed an non-employed contributors. It shouldn't matter of the work is done by Will or Raymond or me or someone else.
"Should" – but it does, digikam is one example that skill-wise there was a better maintainer. No offence, but that's just how it is. There is no official update for digikam thus people are stuck with the version the distro ships and which crashes (let's face it, even if the crash would be reported in bugzilla there would be no update, so UpdatedApps is the "cheap" way for official updates). But one cannot recommend UpdatedApps to them since 11.3 and 11.4 versions from that repo are not working as they should (see email forwarded from the digikam mailinglist a few days ago.)
I don't think it would make much of a difference. From my experience UpdatedApps (or better the former Backports) worked similar. There sometimes were patches to make important things like digikam work also with older distributions but it mostly was, "let's see if the factory version builds". Maybe I am wrong here and in former days it was really different. But since Martin has taken over maintainership, at least this step happens again, which was not always the case before. So as there was only critic so far in the way he maintains KUA. I at least find it great that he has taken over the maintainership, because the situation has improved in my opinion.
KR47 being very late until it worked
However I do very much agree that there's a lack of focus/prioritization and too much stuff going on, which adds limited value to the distro and project. That's also why I objected e.g. to the creation of the KR4x repos to begin with.
That's debatable, for me they add great value. They replace the need to bugfix openSUSE's official packages for those that want bugfixes from upstream via the last minor release of a major release. All the old bugs annoy upstream which makes them even think about disabling bug reporting for all but the currently released version (minor) and leave the management of the potentially already fixed or distro-specific bugs to downstream.
So my very provocative idea would be to concentrate on KRxy, ship whatever is in there when an oS release is due, continue working on that repo until the last minor upstream release was done and ship that state as an official update.
I also would say that shipping the last minor upstream release as update might be a good /the best idea given the current resources. However I also would say that the work on the KRxy repos at least to some degree causes the bad update situation you describe below. To say it once more: There is no longer a strict update policy for openSUSE you even get an agreement for only more or less cosmetic bugs, so there is no reason to not do more updates (except resources).
It's not meant as an accusation but just my impression which leads me to think that given these low resources, for 12.1 there should be only one thing to focus on and that's KDEPIM.
To configure virtual desktops might be annoying
KDEPIM should definitely be a very high priority and will probably be the major achilles heel of 12.1.
But:
* only say 25-33% of KDE users use KDEPIM (most people use web-based mail/calendar or Thunderbird, some use textbased or even Evolution). While 100% of users will use the default desktop at least temporarily (probably 90% of users will never change anything other than the wallpaper). Where do you get your numbers from, just to make sure we are talking about the same audience.
* KDEPIM can be patched later, the default desktop can't.
This will not happen. Update-wise openSUSE's KDE sucks. Was there an update for the broken network-manager which pisses-off the upstream dev? That one would have been an easy one compared to kdepim. How many official KDE updates have there been over the last few months? Let's face it, most bugfixes are only shipped via KRxy, including kdepim 4.4 and kdepim 4.7.x after oS 12.1 will be released.
That is in my opinion the point where we have to change. I actually see no reason, why we do not do more updates, except that the people doing most of the work seem to prefer to work on the "inofficial repos" (or only on the next version instead of official updates). If this is really the case than probably the best solution is really to ship the (final) content from KRxy as an update. But here we should come to a clear policy. Because working on doing individual online updates for (small) bugs is not really useful, if a few weeks later there will be an update to a minor upstream release, which includes the fix. At least for 11.4 I can say that there was some discussion to go with 4.6.3? as an online update and in this situation I stopped looking for individual patches for online updates. Christian Ps: After writing the mail, I see that it has not much to do with the subject, so I am changing it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org