[opensuse-gnome] Default extensions for our implimentation.
We included some extensions to fix some issues with Gnome. I wrote an article on extensions, and would like to submit the listed extensions in that article for consideration. http://opensuseadventures.blogspot.com/2012/05/getting-most-of-your-gnome-sh... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
Le lundi 21 mai 2012, à 14:40 -0700, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
We included some extensions to fix some issues with Gnome. I wrote an article on extensions, and would like to submit the listed extensions in that article for consideration.
http://opensuseadventures.blogspot.com/2012/05/getting-most-of-your-gnome-sh...
It would help to list them in the mail so we can easily argue for/against each of them :-) In general, the fact that extensions are easily installable means that we really don't need most extensions by default. We only need them if they really fix a major issue. Here's my opinion on the extensions you propose (and it's just my opinion): Alt-Tab switcher => it's a matter of taste. I'm perfectly happy with the new behavior, for instance, since I got used to it. Alternative Status Menu => that's the one we ship by default, because it annoyed too many people to not have the Reboot/Power Off items. Not sure it still works, though, since I disable it. We might need to take the version from extensions.gnome.org Network Connections => you can remove connections from the control center now, so the main use case is less important. Also, I think it's confusing to have both Network Connections and Network Settings in the menu by default. Remove the Accessibility Icon => I don't think it's friendly to do this by default, as accessibility user relies on this. But maybe we can ship the extension disabled by default, given the number of people asking for this? Notifications (that's just chat notifications) => No opinion, might be useful in the short term, but I think upstream wants to fix the core issue another way for 3.6. Calculator => nice, but clearly not something we need by default :-) Media Player Indicator => with media keys, I've never felt the need for this. What is the experience of others? Advanced Settings => the advanced settings are not used often enough to be in the menu by default, imho. Places Status Indicator => probably nice, but not something I'd use by default. For the record, I don't think we should ship so many extensions by default. Having one or two is fine, but more might cause issues with updates, if it happens we have to ship a newer gnome-shell for instance. Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2012-05-22 at 08:31 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le lundi 21 mai 2012, à 14:40 -0700, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
We included some extensions to fix some issues with Gnome. I wrote an article on extensions, and would like to submit the listed extensions in that article for consideration.
http://opensuseadventures.blogspot.com/2012/05/getting-most-of-your-gnome-sh...
It would help to list them in the mail so we can easily argue for/against each of them :-)
In general, the fact that extensions are easily installable means that we really don't need most extensions by default. We only need them if they really fix a major issue.
Personally I would rather we didn't ship any extensions unless absolutely necessary. Alternative Status had a valid argument put forward and the consensus was in its favour. As I don't use a desktop any more only laptop I wasn't overly affected either way. I would rather we didn't bundle extensions but rather make it CRYSTAL CLEAR as to where to get them and what they do. Maybe a greeter style item or something?
Here's my opinion on the extensions you propose (and it's just my opinion):
Alt-Tab switcher => it's a matter of taste. I'm perfectly happy with the new behavior, for instance, since I got used to it.
I actually like the default behaviour.
Alternative Status Menu => that's the one we ship by default, because it annoyed too many people to not have the Reboot/Power Off items. Not sure it still works, though, since I disable it. We might need to take the version from extensions.gnome.org
If I'm not mistaken this extension will soon be made obsolete by upstream as they are working on re-integrating shutdown (or did I get suckered by a joke?)
Network Connections => you can remove connections from the control center now, so the main use case is less important. Also, I think it's confusing to have both Network Connections and Network Settings in the menu by default.
I don't see the need for this, I find network connections are easily accessible.
Remove the Accessibility Icon => I don't think it's friendly to do this by default, as accessibility user relies on this. But maybe we can ship the extension disabled by default, given the number of people asking for this?
This should most definitely NOT be enabled by default. openSUSE is already viewed by many as an inaccesible distro, and we should be making moves to be more accessible not the other way round.
Notifications (that's just chat notifications) => No opinion, might be useful in the short term, but I think upstream wants to fix the core issue another way for 3.6.
This is potentially useful, but is it worth having something for just one release? I'd rather it wasn't a default and we highlight its potential usefulness.
Calculator => nice, but clearly not something we need by default :-)
No need.
Media Player Indicator => with media keys, I've never felt the need for this. What is the experience of others?
I really don't want to clutter things up, which IMHO this does. Banshee already offers the functionality from its icon so why duplicate the feature?
Advanced Settings => the advanced settings are not used often enough to be in the menu by default, imho.
I have only used gnome-tweak-tool once, after first install. Again why clutter things up?
Places Status Indicator => probably nice, but not something I'd use by default.
Possibly useful, although I never used that feature before and don't miss it now. Again we shouldn't have it as a default but highlight it for people should they wish to have it.
For the record, I don't think we should ship so many extensions by default. Having one or two is fine, but more might cause issues with updates, if it happens we have to ship a newer gnome-shell for instance.
I would rather we had no extensions shipped by default, but that's just me :-) Regards, Andy -- Andrew Wafaa IRC: FunkyPenguin GPG: 0x3A36312F -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Andrew Wafaa <awafaa@opensuse.org> wrote:
I actually like the default behaviour.
One of my favourite things about openSUSE is its faithfulness to upstream GNOME. Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2012-05-22 at 10:02 +0100, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Personally I would rather we didn't ship any extensions unless absolutely necessary. Alternative Status had a valid argument put forward and the consensus was in its favour. As I don't use a desktop any more only laptop I wasn't overly affected either way.
I would rather we didn't bundle extensions but rather make it CRYSTAL CLEAR as to where to get them and what they do. Maybe a greeter style item or something?
I'm generally in agreement. I think it is a much better experience for users to get the standard GNOME and then have a very easy way of being aware and able to choose extensions. After all, isn't openSUSE about choice? :-) I read somewhere, although I seem to be missing this email now, that someone proposed making e.g.o a bookmark when we ship Firefox. If that's a legitimate proposal, I'm against this as the answer to extensions. Why would a user think to configure his/her desktop by going to a browser instead of some settings area? I'd rather see something in our menu, such as "Desktop Extensions" or "Extend your Desktop." Something like that. Although I can see a few problems with this idea as well, such as your default chosen browser may not support the e.g.o plugin, thus clicking on the menu item bringing up your browser may not be effective. Or, if your browser is already open but buried under other windows, a user might keep clicking and clicking on the menu item wondering why nothing's happening. :-) Another drawback is how to keep your extensions updated when people are less likely to revisit e.g.o to check on the status of their installed extensions? I haven't visited e.g.o in months. On a side note, and this is not meant to disparage Cinnamon, I find the way Cinnamon ships extensions problematic for standard GNOME. I tried Cinnamon once a few months ago for only like 5 minutes (just to see) and when I quickly went back to GNOME, ugh, all those new extensions were enabled and I had to try to weed through and figure out which ones were extensions *I* enabled versus ones that Cinnamon forced on me. Bryen M Yunashko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 23 mai 2012, à 10:40 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :
Another drawback is how to keep your extensions updated when people are less likely to revisit e.g.o to check on the status of their installed extensions? I haven't visited e.g.o in months.
That's something that gnome-shell should handle automatically: it should check for updates. I remember some discussion about this, but can't find the reference right now. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2012-05-23 at 17:56 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le mercredi 23 mai 2012, à 10:40 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :
Another drawback is how to keep your extensions updated when people are less likely to revisit e.g.o to check on the status of their installed extensions? I haven't visited e.g.o in months.
That's something that gnome-shell should handle automatically: it should check for updates. I remember some discussion about this, but can't find the reference right now.
Vincent
-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
Maybe it does. I guess I wouldn't know since it would be a background function. One other thing, a user wouldn't know if there's new extensions out there that fit what they were looking for but couldn't find before. That's probably not germane to this conversation, but thought I'd put it out there. :-) I love the ability to add extensions, but I quickly grew tired of checking e.g.o on a regular basis. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Bryen M Yunashko <suserocks@bryen.com>:
On Tue, 2012-05-22 at 10:02 +0100, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
I read somewhere, although I seem to be missing this email now, that someone proposed making e.g.o a bookmark when we ship Firefox. If that's a legitimate proposal, I'm against this as the answer to extensions. Why would a user think to configure his/her desktop by going to a browser instead of some settings area?
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=742166
I'd rather see something in our menu, such as "Desktop Extensions" or "Extend your Desktop." Something like that. Although I can see a few problems with this idea as well, such as your default chosen browser may not support the e.g.o plugin, thus clicking on the menu item bringing up your browser may not be effective. Or, if your browser is already open but buried under other windows, a user might keep clicking and clicking on the menu item wondering why nothing's happening. :-)
The 'settings' entry might be an option by providing a 'web application' (which is possible with epiphany!) which would do that...
Another drawback is how to keep your extensions updated when people are less likely to revisit e.g.o to check on the status of their installed extensions? I haven't visited e.g.o in months.
That is indeed an issue... Package management facilitates that a lot.
On a side note, and this is not meant to disparage Cinnamon, I find the way Cinnamon ships extensions problematic for standard GNOME. I tried Cinnamon once a few months ago for only like 5 minutes (just to see) and when I quickly went back to GNOME, ugh, all those new extensions were enabled and I had to try to weed through and figure out which ones were extensions *I* enabled versus ones that Cinnamon forced on me.
That's an interesting observation indeed. Cinnamon should make sure to use an own 'configuration style for which extensions it needs / enables. Seems 'too much code is shared' in this case. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2012-05-23 at 11:59 -0400, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar wrote:
Another drawback is how to keep your extensions updated when people are less likely to revisit e.g.o to check on the status of their installed extensions? I haven't visited e.g.o in months.
That is indeed an issue... Package management facilitates that a lot.
As Vuntz just pointed out, gnome-shell *should* automatically update the extensions. Regarding packages, I don't believe they are an effective method for a user who doesn't know what they're looking for. I'm presuming that the vast majority of users out there, who don't participate on forums, ML or IRC, don't even know extensions exist. In fact, I would just drop extensions packaging altogether. It's just one more thing for you guys to maintain and e.g.o is arguably more current than what's in OBS, at least for a certain period of time. If the 'web application' settings option is an idea you like, that would be a better and more effective thing to maintain delivering real solutions to users and just let gnome-shell do the job of maintaining updates. Or is that a security/stability issue? Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2012-05-22 at 08:31 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le lundi 21 mai 2012, à 14:40 -0700, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
We included some extensions to fix some issues with Gnome. I wrote an article on extensions, and would like to submit the listed extensions in that article for consideration.
http://opensuseadventures.blogspot.com/2012/05/getting-most-of-your-gnome-sh...
It would help to list them in the mail so we can easily argue for/against each of them :-)
In general, the fact that extensions are easily installable means that we really don't need most extensions by default. We only need them if they really fix a major issue.
Here's my opinion on the extensions you propose (and it's just my opinion):
Alt-Tab switcher => it's a matter of taste. I'm perfectly happy with the new behavior, for instance, since I got used to it. I like it too, but thought it was worth discussing. My vote would be to keep with upstream.
Alternative Status Menu => that's the one we ship by default, because it annoyed too many people to not have the Reboot/Power Off items. Not sure it still works, though, since I disable it. We might need to take the version from extensions.gnome.org This was a great decision, and it still works.
Network Connections => you can remove connections from the control center now, so the main use case is less important. Also, I think it's confusing to have both Network Connections and Network Settings in the menu by default. I don't find this confusing at all... and a couple of clicks will alleviate confusion. It took a lot of googling before I realized that it was easy to find in the Activities overview. Hence why I recommend this.
Remove the Accessibility Icon => I don't think it's friendly to do this by default, as accessibility user relies on this. But maybe we can ship the extension disabled by default, given the number of people asking for this? This was included in the blog since many people like it, but I agree... there is no reason to include it by default.
Notifications (that's just chat notifications) => No opinion, might be useful in the short term, but I think upstream wants to fix the core issue another way for 3.6. Are we shipping 3.6 with this fix? If not, it is frankly a rather crucial enhancement so that I don't miss messages when I go get a glass of water.
Calculator => nice, but clearly not something we need by default :-) No, but why not impress people?
Media Player Indicator => with media keys, I've never felt the need for this. What is the experience of others? I love this one, and though most players have similar functionality from their tray icons, that involves playing chase the icon. Plus, this is just slick... and so long as there isn't an app open the extension will not display.
Advanced Settings => the advanced settings are not used often enough to be in the menu by default, imho. True enough, however it is good to make it more obvious... especially since it has the extension management. The latter is my primary reason since the extension management by webpage has been rightly criticized.
Places Status Indicator => probably nice, but not something I'd use by default. True, but it is very very nicely done.
For the record, I don't think we should ship so many extensions by default. Having one or two is fine, but more might cause issues with updates, if it happens we have to ship a newer gnome-shell for instance.
Cheers,
Vincent
-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Andrew Wafaa -
Bryen M Yunashko -
Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar -
Michael Hill -
Roger Luedecke -
Vincent Untz