On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:05 AM, JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> wrote:

On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 23:48 +0300, Dinar Valeev wrote:

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On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:22 PM, JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> wrote:

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Hi all, I was wondering if there was a volunteer out there to assess the various gtk/gnome torrent apps for use in 11.0. Specifically:

1) Bittorrent-gtk

2) gnome-btdownload

3) Transmission

and come up with a recommendation.

-JP -- JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> Novell, Inc.

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What about deluge?

Sure, can add others for testing

/me smells a volunteer

I prefer deluge but i have some issue on torrent with huge number of seeders. My router (wag54gs) just hang :( I didn't notice this issue with other clients. (Azureus,ktorrent,transmission) If I close my eyes to this issue then deluge is the best choice.

-JP -- JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> Novell, Inc.

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tir, 25.03.2008 kl. 16.21 -0500, skrev Alberto Passalacqua:

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What about deluge?

I was going to suggest the same.

Regards, A.

AFIK Novell Legal has an issue with DHT, take a look at ktorrent -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Hi, I'm the developer of MonoTorrent[1][2], it was developed in the summer of 2006 (iirc) as part of googles Summer of Code initiative. A GUI[3] was developed for the library during the Summer of Code of 2007, now known as Monsoon. That GUI is fairly well featured and robust. Check out the video in [3] if you want a really quick overview of all the features. My pitch is that Monsoon should be the default client for suse. It's feature rich, under active development and easy to use. I also did a very brief comparison between Monsoon and Transmission a short time ago, the results of which i detailed in my blog[4][5]. Since then the only major change in MonoTorrent has been that hashing performance has increased by about 8-10%. I've attached the links to the 1-click install for Suse 10.2 [6] and Suse 10.3 [7] along with a link to the project on the opensuse build service [8]. Note, there are a few known issues in that release which have subsequently been fixed in SVN, mostly involving the persisting of certain data between sessions. Let me know what you think, Thanks, Alan. [1]: http://monotorrent.com/ [2]: http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/ [3]: http://buchan.esoteriq.org/weblog/2007/08/20/monotorrent-gtk-interface-summe... [4]: http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/2008/03/so-thought-struck-me.html [5]: http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/2008/03/this-is-just-quick-follow-up-from-my... [6]: http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/home%3Aalan_mcgovern/openSUSE_10.2/monotorr... [7]: http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/home%3Aalan_mcgovern/openSUSE_10.3/monotorr... [8]: https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home:alan_mcgovern On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Vincent Untz <vuntz@novell.com> wrote:

Le mardi 25 mars 2008, à 16:22 -0400, JP Rosevear a écrit :

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Hi all, I was wondering if there was a volunteer out there to assess the various gtk/gnome torrent apps for use in 11.0. Specifically:

1) Bittorrent-gtk

2) gnome-btdownload

3) Transmission

and come up with a recommendation.

Would be nice to have a volunteer work on studying this, indeed.

Here's a very quick and dirty study (including deluge):

+ Bittorrent-gtk: never tried this. I assume that's the default UI for bittorrent? I couldn't easily find screenshots, so I gave up.

+ gnome-btdownload: a bit too minimalistic, and the development could be a bit more active.

+ transmission: good UI, with philosophy close to GNOME's one. Seems to work.

+ deluge: didn't know this. I just looked at the screenshots, and it looks okay, but the UI would need more love.

So my personal order would be: transmission, deluge, gnome-btdownload and Bittorrent-gtk.

Now, I'm sure that someone else can do better that this "study" (I'm nearly ashamed to name this a study...). Any volunteer?

Vincent

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On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 07:10 +0000, Andrew Wafaa wrote:

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:22:07 -0400 JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> wrote:

...

Hi all, I was wondering if there was a volunteer out there to assess the various gtk/gnome torrent apps for use in 11.0. Specifically:

1) Bittorrent-gtk

2) gnome-btdownload

3) Transmission

and come up with a recommendation.

-JP

I will do a review of sorts later today of the above and including deluge and Monotorrent. I will try and ensure that there are screenshots available for comparison and also have a wee write up about them.

Great!

I hope you don't mind the delay, but I unfortunately have to go and deal with a client now.

No problem, have a final decision by mid-next week would be fine. -JP -- JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> Novell, Inc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:10:22 +0000 Andrew Wafaa <awafaa@opensuse.org> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:22:07 -0400 JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> wrote:

...

Hi all, I was wondering if there was a volunteer out there to assess the various gtk/gnome torrent apps for use in 11.0. Specifically:

1) Bittorrent-gtk

2) gnome-btdownload

3) Transmission

and come up with a recommendation.

-JP

I will do a review of sorts later today of the above and including deluge and Monotorrent. I will try and ensure that there are screenshots available for comparison and also have a wee write up about them.

I hope you don't mind the delay, but I unfortunately have to go and deal with a client now.

Regards,

Andy

Ok I have pulled my proverbial out from underneath me and produced a review of sorts. Please remember this is a purely personal point of view, but I have tried to be objective, and look at it from a "Big Picture" view point. You can read my "review" at [0]. I am open to comments that anyone may have. I'm not sure how the voting mechanism works, but my votes are in there :) Regards, Andy [0]http://en.opensuse.org/User:FunkyPenguin/TorrentReview -- Andrew Wafaa, openSUSE Member: GNOME Team. awafaa@opensuse.org | http://opensuse.org/GNOME openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org http://www.wafaa.eu -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Hello, to make it short, I think that both transmission and bittorrent-gtk are too rough, and if you want to set something fancy, you have to change application to move to something more powerful. I didn't know monotorrent, which looks pretty good, but I would avoid mono apps. Some users don't really want to use mono, and pushing it in their face is not the right way to go, I think. So, I still think deluge is the way to go. It's simple, but it's not featureless, and it's pretty light. Regards, Alberto Il giorno gio, 27/03/2008 alle 11.51 +0100, Rodrigo Moya ha scritto:

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 22:22 +0000, Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

[0]http://en.opensuse.org/User:FunkyPenguin/TorrentReview

transmission and bittorrent-gtk look the best options to me, they seem to follow better the GNOME conventions (just works by default, with the ability to change settings if the user wants to).

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So bittorrent-gtk looks a big rough to me too, anything in particular about transmission that is particularly annoying?

Mainly the reduced options provided compared to the other two, especially for the network config.

I think a large majority of users would never know one way or another and we already have tomboy, banshee and f-spot that are widely uses and things like tasque that are the new toys on the block.

Indeed. But, said without any bias, because I've nothing against it, the dependency on Mono is still one of the biggest complain we hear. Regards, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Sometimes, but I think its often misplaced. You don't blame C/C++/Java if an app sucks :-).

Hehe, true! Just need to find the way to convince users of that! ;-) You know I agree on that. It's ages I nag because I think some of N additions should be rewritten in C# (guess which one I'm thinking to o:-) ) A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

To cite some issues I see in transmission: - Impossible to set a proxy. - Very rough bandwidth control (only upload and download speed settings, no connection number limitations). - No control on seeding (quota ratio, for example). Why they are useful seems pretty evident to me. Regards, A. Il giorno gio, 27/03/2008 alle 21.56 +0100, Vincent Untz ha scritto:

Le jeudi 27 mars 2008, à 15:31 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua a écrit :

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...

So bittorrent-gtk looks a big rough to me too, anything in particular about transmission that is particularly annoying?

Mainly the reduced options provided compared to the other two, especially for the network config.

Can you tell us which of the missing options are useful and why?

Vincent

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this should be set in the network capplet from gnome-control-center, and the apps should be changed to work with those settings if they don't yet. That is, we already have proxy config in that capplet, firefox, and other I can't remember right now, so please don't add more proxy config GUIs, let's just use the one we have and make it fit all needs.

I'm not sure transmission has proxy support at all, that's why I included it in the list of lacking features.

...

- Very rough bandwidth control (only upload and download speed settings, no connection number limitations). - No control on seeding (quota ratio, for example).

Why they are useful seems pretty evident to me.

it doesn't to me, since I've never had to set that at all, only upload and download speed settings. So, why is this useful?

Well, controlling the number of connections looks to me a basic feature to have control on your connection. Indeed the seeding control is more a fine tuning feature for experts, but if present in a Preferences tab, it doesn't hurt anyone. We should provide the best application for _all_ our users, not the best for unexperienced users. Regards, Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

I'm not sure transmission has proxy support at all, that's why I included it in the list of lacking features.

The vast majority of users won't ever need to set a proxy. 99% of the time (rough guess) you'll have direct access to the internet. In cases where you do not, you would generally be behind a restrictive corporate network which wouldn't allow p2p apps anyway. So even if you could use a HTTP proxy to allow tracker communications, there wouldn't be a SOCKS proxy available for peer communications. While SOCKS/HTTP proxy support would be nice for the minority who are behind such restrictive setups, it's not a make or break feature. Alan. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

The vast majority of users won't ever need to set a proxy. 99% of the time (rough guess) you'll have direct access to the internet. In cases where you do not, you would generally be behind a restrictive corporate network which wouldn't allow p2p apps anyway. So even if you could use a HTTP proxy to allow tracker communications, there wouldn't be a SOCKS proxy available for peer communications. While SOCKS/HTTP proxy support would be nice for the minority who are behind such restrictive setups, it's not a make or break feature.

I don't think this is good point when it comes to choose an application for a distribution with a wide user base target. As I said, I think we should decided for a versatile tool, not for the "basic user tool". Regards, Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Just to add a little more bling to the Monsoon cause: http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-got-some-amazing-news-just-few.htm... Alan. On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Alan McGovern <alan.mcgovern@gmail.com> wrote:

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I don't think this is good point when it comes to choose an application for a distribution with a wide user base target.

As I said, I think we should decided for a versatile tool, not for the "basic user tool".

True, but i still believe that proxy support isn't a make or break feature. That's just my opinion though.

...

One thing I'd suggest if Monsoon allows it: enable UPnP by default, so it just works if you have a UPnP router. Very useful for people with home networks and only one external facing IP address.

That is what's done. The upnp library that Monsoon uses supports nat-pmp aswell, I just have to update the copy that i ship with monsoon.

...

right, that's what I'm try to do, but need to understand what experienced torrent uses really need

One feature which i use which haven't been mentioned is selective downloading: choosing which files in the torrent should be downloaded. That is quite useful at times. An app which supports that would be nice. Transmission and Monsoon do, but i don't think deluge does. The others i don't know about.

Alan.

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We should provide the best application for _all_ our users, not the best for unexperienced users.

right, that's what I'm try to do, but need to understand what experienced torrent uses really need, so I'm ok with having advanced preferences, but by default the app should do its job automatically (when possible of course), and if not possible, it should show meaningful information, rather than allowing the user to tweak every setting.

Well, I think it's not our task to decide for an experienced user. We should let _him_ choose. I agree with the "easy and automatic" default idea though. That's why I suggested deluge. It's true it has a wizard at the first startup, but by clicking "next" some times, you have a nice default without a real user intervention, and you don't prevent the advanced user to decide what to do. Anyway, I repeated my point already a lot of times. Your turn to decide ;-) Regards, Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 01 April 2008, James Tremblay wrote:

http://azureus.sourceforge.net/

this is the best torrent client I have ever used, it has two modes. 1) community where you can download things in its community 2) advanced mode, where you get more of a TUI to work with. I turned several of my family and friends on to it and they figure it out in seconds.

PLUS it's platform independent!

Azureus is my favorite, but unfortunately it won't get past Novell's legal dept. due to its use of DHT (ktorrent as distributed with openSUSE has DHT disabled at compile time). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2008-03-27 at 15:31 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

So bittorrent-gtk looks a big rough to me too, anything in particular about transmission that is particularly annoying?

Mainly the reduced options provided compared to the other two, especially for the network config.

...

I think a large majority of users would never know one way or another and we already have tomboy, banshee and f-spot that are widely uses and things like tasque that are the new toys on the block.

Indeed. But, said without any bias, because I've nothing against it, the dependency on Mono is still one of the biggest complain we hear.

Regards, A.

I think making such decisions based on that only serves to politicize the process of choosing the best app to provide. That puts everyone in an unfair position when it comes to making unbiased decisions. As for whether it is "thrown in their face", I don't think that holds water either. A person who is either new or has no bias against mono wouldn't feel it is being thrown in their face. And the ones who are biased are intelligent enough to make their own choice of whether to use that app or install another comparable app from the repositories (or roll their own.) If they choose to feel that way, that's their choice. We shouldn't have our hands tied by letting their choice become our choice. Everyone loses that way. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 01:04 +0000, Alan McGovern wrote:

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transmission and bittorrent-gtk look the best options to me, they seem to follow better the GNOME conventions (just works by default, with the ability to change settings if the user wants to).

The wizard is gone in Monsoon now. So it also 'just works'.

great!

...

The others look a lot like aMule and similar P2P apps, which just contain too much information by default for the normal user.

What is a normal user? What is too much information?

a normal user is a user that is told to get the latest openSUSE ISO from torrent, downloads the torrent file and just wants the ISO to get to his/her desktop ASAP. And having to select lots of bandwidth/upnp/etc options might make him/her think again about really downloading the ISO :-) -- Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo@novell.com> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org