[opensuse-gnome] alt-status-menu as default?
Hi All, During the GNOME 3.0 discussions at oSC, the issue of limited access to shutdown & hibernate commands came up during the session. I suggested the idea of using the gnome-shell-extension-alt-status-menu by default to give our users Shutdown and Hibernate alongside Suspend in their status menu. At the time, two valid points were made in the defence of keeping our GNOME 3.x installation the same as upstream To paraphrase, they were "Suspend by default makes perfect sense for laptops" and "The ACPI power button works and gives the user opportunity to shutdown" Based on this discussion, my suggestion was to look into the possibility of having the extension installed by default but only on desktops. Atri/badshah400 and others have been helping but this is proving to be rather difficult, with dirty hacks or purposefully causing package conflicts being the only two 'solutions' which should work, neither of which are any good. Furthermore, GNOME 3.2 has changed the situation - the power button's default behaviour is now to suspend, and unlike in gnome 3.0 there is no user-accessible way for this change. This means we are heading towards a 12.1 release with no easy way for our GNOME 3.2 users to shutdown or hibernate their machine. I therefore propose adding gnome-shell-extension-alt-status-menu to our default patterns Suspend will still be highly prominent, still available in the status menu and will remain as the default behaviour for lid close (changeable in tweak-tool) and upon ACPI power button (with no easy way of changing) Time is getting short so vuntz suggests we have a deadline of Tuesday to discuss this.. please say yes, or have really good arguments for why not! :) Richard Brown openSUSE Member (woo!) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 14:47:00 +0100 "Richard Brown" <rdb@ccb.ac.uk> wrote:
Hi All,
During the GNOME 3.0 discussions at oSC, the issue of limited access to shutdown & hibernate commands came up during the session.
I suggested the idea of using the gnome-shell-extension-alt-status-menu by default to give our users Shutdown and Hibernate alongside Suspend in their status menu.
At the time, two valid points were made in the defence of keeping our GNOME 3.x installation the same as upstream To paraphrase, they were "Suspend by default makes perfect sense for laptops" and "The ACPI power button works and gives the user opportunity to shutdown"
Based on this discussion, my suggestion was to look into the possibility of having the extension installed by default but only on desktops.
Atri/badshah400 and others have been helping but this is proving to be rather difficult, with dirty hacks or purposefully causing package conflicts being the only two 'solutions' which should work, neither of which are any good.
Furthermore, GNOME 3.2 has changed the situation - the power button's default behaviour is now to suspend, and unlike in gnome 3.0 there is no user-accessible way for this change.
This means we are heading towards a 12.1 release with no easy way for our GNOME 3.2 users to shutdown or hibernate their machine.
I therefore propose adding gnome-shell-extension-alt-status-menu to our default patterns
Suspend will still be highly prominent, still available in the status menu and will remain as the default behaviour for lid close (changeable in tweak-tool) and upon ACPI power button (with no easy way of changing)
Time is getting short so vuntz suggests we have a deadline of Tuesday to discuss this.. please say yes, or have really good arguments for why not! :)
Richard Brown openSUSE Member (woo!)
Hi My vote is for No. Shutdown is still there via the alt key? Why, all the shell extensions will move to be user based via the sweettooth browser plugin and won't be installed system wide. Trouble is there is no time line for this to happen :( so in the interim users will install, however the site may/may not be live by release time. My other thought was maybe if you decide to install that it's offered as a pullin script like flash after the install is complete, might be easier to remove from the patterns? I guess we need to work out once the sweettooth plugin system is available, how it would be installed...? -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop up 1 day 0:25, 5 users, load average: 0.30, 0.37, 0.30 GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 285.05.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
Hi! On Fri, 2011-10-21 at 14:47 +0100, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi All,
Atri/badshah400 and others have been helping but this is proving to be rather difficult, with dirty hacks or purposefully causing package conflicts being the only two 'solutions' which should work, neither of which are any good.
Furthermore, GNOME 3.2 has changed the situation - the power button's default behaviour is now to suspend, and unlike in gnome 3.0 there is no user-accessible way for this change.
This means we are heading towards a 12.1 release with no easy way for our GNOME 3.2 users to shutdown or hibernate their machine.
There's no easy way to shutdown, but for me more importantly (on an old fashioned desktop :) ) from GNOME 3.2 there is *absolutely no GUI way to hibernate*, easy or difficult [1]! Adding the alt-status-menu extension at least gives me one, albeit not-so-easy, way by pressing Alt and clicking on Suspend. With all due respect for upstream developers and UI designers, I have to nonetheless emphasise that hibernate is very important for me and I think for many more. Sure one could go ahead and install the extension separately, but is that really some requirement we want to dump on the unsuspecting user ;) ?
I therefore propose adding gnome-shell-extension-alt-status-menu to our default patterns
I agree that we should install the extension by default on all computers. Users who would rather stick to the "thou shalt not hibernate" route chosen by upstream (and I think it would be a fair guess to say that there would only be a minority of them) could still individually disable the extension. Any proper website based extension installation system (such as the eagerly awaited extensions.gnome.org) should be able to determine if you already have an extension installed system-wide and give you the option to disable it on your account. Bye. -- Atri [1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649193 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:46:17 +0530 Atri <badshah400@aim.com> wrote:
Hi!
On Fri, 2011-10-21 at 14:47 +0100, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi All,
Atri/badshah400 and others have been helping but this is proving to be rather difficult, with dirty hacks or purposefully causing package conflicts being the only two 'solutions' which should work, neither of which are any good.
Furthermore, GNOME 3.2 has changed the situation - the power button's default behaviour is now to suspend, and unlike in gnome 3.0 there is no user-accessible way for this change.
This means we are heading towards a 12.1 release with no easy way for our GNOME 3.2 users to shutdown or hibernate their machine.
There's no easy way to shutdown, but for me more importantly (on an old fashioned desktop :) ) from GNOME 3.2 there is *absolutely no GUI way to hibernate*, easy or difficult [1]! Adding the alt-status-menu extension at least gives me one, albeit not-so-easy, way by pressing Alt and clicking on Suspend. With all due respect for upstream developers and UI designers, I have to nonetheless emphasise that hibernate is very important for me and I think for many more. Sure one could go ahead and install the extension separately, but is that really some requirement we want to dump on the unsuspecting user ;) ?
I therefore propose adding gnome-shell-extension-alt-status-menu to our default patterns
I agree that we should install the extension by default on all computers. Users who would rather stick to the "thou shalt not hibernate" route chosen by upstream (and I think it would be a fair guess to say that there would only be a minority of them) could still individually disable the extension.
Any proper website based extension installation system (such as the eagerly awaited extensions.gnome.org) should be able to determine if you already have an extension installed system-wide and give you the option to disable it on your account.
Bye.
Hi Looking at the output from; gsettings list-keys org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power There is; active button-hibernate button-power button-sleep button-suspend critical-battery-action idle-brightness idle-dim-ac idle-dim-battery idle-dim-time lid-close-ac-action lid-close-battery-action notify-perhaps-recall percentage-action percentage-critical percentage-low priority sleep-display-ac sleep-display-battery sleep-inactive-ac sleep-inactive-ac-timeout sleep-inactive-ac-type sleep-inactive-battery sleep-inactive-battery-timeout sleep-inactive-battery-type time-action time-critical time-low use-time-for-policy There are options to set the keys for hibernate? I use a logitech multimedia keyboard on my desktop and I can define the keys. This keyboard also has a hibernate button which works fine, just like my netbook. -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop up 0:32, 4 users, load average: 0.02, 0.22, 0.22 GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 285.05.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2011-10-22 at 19:27 -0500, Malcolm wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:46:17 +0530 Atri <badshah400@aim.com> wrote:
Hi!
On Fri, 2011-10-21 at 14:47 +0100, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi All,
This means we are heading towards a 12.1 release with no easy way for our GNOME 3.2 users to shutdown or hibernate their machine.
There's no easy way to shutdown, but for me more importantly (on an old fashioned desktop :) ) from GNOME 3.2 there is *absolutely no GUI way to hibernate*, easy or difficult [1]! Adding the alt-status-menu extension at least gives me one, albeit not-so-easy, way by pressing Alt and clicking on Suspend.
I agree that we should install the extension by default on all computers. Users who would rather stick to the "thou shalt not hibernate" route chosen by upstream (and I think it would be a fair guess to say that there would only be a minority of them) could still individually disable the extension.
Any proper website based extension installation system (such as the eagerly awaited extensions.gnome.org) should be able to determine if you already have an extension installed system-wide and give you the option to disable it on your account.
Bye.
Hi Looking at the output from; gsettings list-keys org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power
There is;
active button-hibernate
There are options to set the keys for hibernate? I use a logitech multimedia keyboard on my desktop and I can define the keys. This keyboard also has a hibernate button which works fine, just like my netbook.
Thanks Malcolm! That helped me bind one of my keyboard keys to hibernate. However it is obviously clear that this is not an easily discoverable solution to the hibernate problem. For most new (and even existing GNOME 2.32) users, who had easy access to hibernate earlier would be lead into thinking that there is no way to hibernate from the GNOME desktop now. I still don't see any strong reason for not having the alt-status-menu extension enabled by default. It should be easy to disable extensions either by the user himself or even by the extensions.gnome.org website when it is launched. Seriously, do we want to be hindered by something that neither will be ready by 12.1 release nor even has a definite roadmap yet [1]? Bye -- Atri [1] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-September/msg00078.htm... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
Le dimanche 23 octobre 2011, à 16:08 +0530, Atri a écrit :
I still don't see any strong reason for not having the alt-status-menu extension enabled by default. It should be easy to disable extensions either by the user himself or even by the extensions.gnome.org website when it is launched. Seriously, do we want to be hindered by something that neither will be ready by 12.1 release nor even has a definite roadmap yet [1]?
Given that it'll go live during the 12.1 lifecyle, we should at least think about it. The other thing I'm worried about having an extension by default is that if we release a maintenance update of gnome-shell, we have to be careful about testing it with this extension. Sure, it's not a big deal -- but we need to be aware of that. I don't have a real strong objection otherwise. I'd like to hear people who are staying quiet on this -- is this just okay with you, do you not care, or...? Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:13:27 +0200 Vincent Untz <vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
Le dimanche 23 octobre 2011, à 16:08 +0530, Atri a écrit :
I still don't see any strong reason for not having the alt-status-menu extension enabled by default. It should be easy to disable extensions either by the user himself or even by the extensions.gnome.org website when it is launched. Seriously, do we want to be hindered by something that neither will be ready by 12.1 release nor even has a definite roadmap yet [1]?
Given that it'll go live during the 12.1 lifecyle, we should at least think about it.
The other thing I'm worried about having an extension by default is that if we release a maintenance update of gnome-shell, we have to be careful about testing it with this extension. Sure, it's not a big deal -- but we need to be aware of that.
I don't have a real strong objection otherwise. I'd like to hear people who are staying quiet on this -- is this just okay with you, do you not care, or...?
Vincent
Hi +1 ;) I don't really mind one way or the other, for me I've stopped using it and would probably remove it. Maybe there is an 'unused' key combination that could utilize the gsetting routine as Atri used? -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop up 1:20, 3 users, load average: 0.08, 0.32, 0.36 GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 285.05.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/24/2011 at 08:43 PM, in message <20111024151327.GJ32466@vuntz.net>, Vincent Untz <vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote: Le dimanche 23 octobre 2011, à 16:08 +0530, Atri a écrit : I still don't see any strong reason for not having the alt-status-menu extension enabled by default. It should be easy to disable extensions either by the user himself or even by the extensions.gnome.org website when it is launched. Seriously, do we want to be hindered by something that neither will be ready by 12.1 release nor even has a definite roadmap yet [1]?
Given that it'll go live during the 12.1 lifecyle, we should at least think about it.
The other thing I'm worried about having an extension by default is that if we release a maintenance update of gnome-shell, we have to be careful about testing it with this extension. Sure, it's not a big deal -- but we need to be aware of that.
I don't have a real strong objection otherwise. I'd like to hear people who are staying quiet on this -- is this just okay with you, do you not care, or...?
I have stopped using the menu completely. If I want to suspend my laptop, I just close the lid and unplug the power. I never hibernate also. So, it just does not matter to me :-) Sankar -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Sankar P <psankar@novell.com> wrote:
On 10/24/2011 at 08:43 PM, in message <20111024151327.GJ32466@vuntz.net>, Vincent Untz <vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote: Le dimanche 23 octobre 2011, à 16:08 +0530, Atri a écrit : I still don't see any strong reason for not having the alt-status-menu extension enabled by default. It should be easy to disable extensions either by the user himself or even by the extensions.gnome.org website when it is launched. Seriously, do we want to be hindered by something that neither will be ready by 12.1 release nor even has a definite roadmap yet [1]?
Given that it'll go live during the 12.1 lifecyle, we should at least think about it.
The other thing I'm worried about having an extension by default is that if we release a maintenance update of gnome-shell, we have to be careful about testing it with this extension. Sure, it's not a big deal -- but we need to be aware of that.
I don't have a real strong objection otherwise. I'd like to hear people who are staying quiet on this -- is this just okay with you, do you not care, or...?
I have stopped using the menu completely. If I want to suspend my laptop, I just close the lid and unplug the power. I never hibernate also. So, it just does not matter to me :-)
Sankar -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
When I want to suspend my laptop. I close the lid as well. I do not use the menu for that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 21 octobre 2011, à 14:47 +0100, Richard Brown a écrit :
I therefore propose adding gnome-shell-extension-alt-status-menu to our default patterns
Thanks to Richard, this should now be done. Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Atri -
Jim Sublette -
Malcolm -
Richard Brown -
Sankar P -
Vincent Untz