Feature changed by: Ilya Chernykh (Ansus) Feature #312946, revision 2 Title: Mate repo for openSUSE openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Around the world users still like the Gnome 2 DE. Gnome2 has forked now in to Mate DE https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment , so i think that beside a kde3 repo, a Mate repo for Gnome2 users of openSUSE is needed. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: The Mate repo can be used by users who cant run Gnome3 or for users that don`t like Gnome3 bu still like Gnome2, old school look. + Discussion: + #1: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2011-11-13 02:37:52) + Linux Mint reported 40% increase in user base due the fact they stick + with Gnome 2. + http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1847 -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312946

Feature changed by: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) Feature #312946, revision 4 Title: Mate repo for openSUSE openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Around the world users still like the Gnome 2 DE. Gnome2 has forked now in to Mate DE https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment , so i think that beside a kde3 repo, a Mate repo for Gnome2 users of openSUSE is needed. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: The Mate repo can be used by users who cant run Gnome3 or - for users that don`t like Gnome3 bu still like Gnome2, old school + for users that don`t like Gnome3 but still like Gnome2, old school look. Discussion: #1: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2011-11-13 02:37:52) Linux Mint reported 40% increase in user base due the fact they stick with Gnome 2. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1847 #2: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) (2011-11-17 14:43:43) (reply to #1) That`s true, i wonder if this can boost openSUSE in popularity as well :) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312946

Feature changed by: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) Feature #312946, revision 8 Title: Mate repo for openSUSE openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Around the world users still like the Gnome 2 DE. Gnome2 has forked now in to Mate DE https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment , so i think that beside a kde3 repo, a Mate repo for Gnome2 users of openSUSE is needed. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: The Mate repo can be used by users who cant run Gnome3 or for users that don`t like Gnome3 but still like Gnome2, old school look. Discussion: #1: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2011-11-13 02:37:52) Linux Mint reported 40% increase in user base due the fact they stick with Gnome 2. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1847 #2: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) (2011-11-17 14:43:43) (reply to #1) That`s true, i wonder if this can boost openSUSE in popularity as well :) + #4: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2011-12-26 16:03:53) (reply to #1) + What method is used to determine number (40%)? In other words, taking + that you don't have registered users as proprietary solutions, how do + you count your user base? + See this http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org#trafficstats and + add whatever site you like in the fields below graph. That is: * + expressed in numbers of visitors * it is result of third party service + - not a potential self promotion #3: xitix collian (xitix) (2011-12-01 09:45:29) It is like Gnome Desktop Environment developers are now working against Linux... Pure Gnome3 is just a BIG & major regress on Linux desktop, it makes Linux desktop productivity more difficult and bring useless features. Even the bars are frozen, you cannot interact, neither visual customize or configure anything. The only Linux Mint & Mate bring some hope... I have installed open SUSE just because Linux Mint 12 have some installation bugs on HP d530 desktop, if no Mate repo I will leave open SUSE. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312946

Feature changed by: Lisias Toledo (lisias) Feature #312946, revision 11 Title: Mate repo for openSUSE openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Ursan Marius Bogdan (creatura85) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Around the world users still like the Gnome 2 DE. Gnome2 has forked now in to Mate DE https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment , so i think that beside a kde3 repo, a Mate repo for Gnome2 users of openSUSE is needed. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: The Mate repo can be used by users who cant run Gnome3 or for users that don`t like Gnome3 but still like Gnome2, old school look. Discussion: #1: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2011-11-13 02:37:52) Linux Mint reported 40% increase in user base due the fact they stick with Gnome 2. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1847 #2: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) (2011-11-17 14:43:43) (reply to #1) That`s true, i wonder if this can boost openSUSE in popularity as well :) #4: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2011-12-26 16:03:53) (reply to #1) What method is used to determine number (40%)? In other words, taking that you don't have registered users as proprietary solutions, how do you count your user base? See this http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org#trafficstats and add whatever site you like in the fields below graph. That is: * expressed in numbers of visitors * it is result of third party service - not a potential self promotion #3: xitix collian (xitix) (2011-12-01 09:45:29) It is like Gnome Desktop Environment developers are now working against Linux... Pure Gnome3 is just a BIG & major regress on Linux desktop, it makes Linux desktop productivity more difficult and bring useless features. Even the bars are frozen, you cannot interact, neither visual customize or configure anything. The only Linux Mint & Mate bring some hope... I have installed open SUSE just because Linux Mint 12 have some installation bugs on HP d530 desktop, if no Mate repo I will leave open SUSE. #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2011-12-26 18:04:16) (reply to #3) You was under different name/nick on mail lists (your desktop tells that). Your short sentence about GNOME3 tells how much effort you put to learn new GUI (graphical user interface), which is to be honest too little to make any informed decision. It shows that you tried some methods that worked with previous version, and they didn't work. For that I needed lesser then 10 seconds. I'm not Gnome user, so you can imagine that when I was able to use it in a minutes, it must be at least something well designed. This screenshot http://en.opensuse.org/images/2/2d/OpenSUSE_12.1_GNOME_in_action.png shows what I've seen. Customizations are something that will come. They are not essential for desktop functionality so their development comes after basic functionality works dependably. The Linux Mint is yet another distro that I didn't find compelling reasons to try, unlike Ubuntu, but their effort with Mate is at the beginning and it will have initial problems as any other development project. That will not help to integrate it very soon in openSUSE, as people that are interested in it and skilled enough to create packages that will build and run under openSUSE, will have more trouble to do that. The same happened with Unity. At the end guy that tried to package it for openSUSE gave up until Ubuntu will have stable version. Your threat to leave openSUSE if there is no Mate desktop has not effect on speed and chance to see Mate in openSUSE, as it depends on other factors that you can influence only if you take time and learn how to bring it in openSUSE. That is the same route Ilya, a guy that created this feature request, took with KDE3. KDE3 lives within openSUSE just because he made that happen, not because he said "I will not use openSUSE if someone doesn't bring KDE3 to me." and then someone, all of the sudden, dropped all of his favorite activities within openSUSE to satisfy Ilya's wish for KDE3. There is OBS ( http://build.opensuse.org ) that offers relatively easy way to bring in software and package it for openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu and more. There is helpful community of packagers willing to help those that want to put in some effort, but they will not abandon their favorite projects to package and maintain anything for those that only show up and say "I want this." + #6: Lisias Toledo (lisias) (2012-02-14 00:37:21) (reply to #5) + Your long sentence tells me how much you much effort you put to learn + about users : squat. ;-) People don't want (and will not) change to and + learn a new Desktop if switching to a new distro is easier and faster. + I'm, on the other hand, a long time OpenSUSE user - I started with SLS + (yes! before Slackware!), gived a try to Red Hat but sticked with + Conectiva for some time until I got a chance to know Yast! and believe + me, this is the first time since then I'm wondering if Yast! is really + so important to me (and it's important - I did gone through some + serious pain to install OpenSUSE on a VPS that doesn't support it just + for the sake of Yast! - and I don't regret it, it already paid itself + on the first month fastening 80% of my configuration efforts). + Gnome 3 is not for everyone, and definitivelly, not for me. + You are right about all the rest, however. Threatening to leave is + childish. Mature ones just leave, without notice. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312946

Feature changed by: Elmar Haag (Hans_Linux) Feature #312946, revision 15 Title: Mate repo for openSUSE openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Ursan Marius Bogdan (creatura85) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Around the world users still like the Gnome 2 DE. Gnome2 has forked now in to Mate DE https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment , so i think that beside a kde3 repo, a Mate repo for Gnome2 users of openSUSE is needed. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: The Mate repo can be used by users who cant run Gnome3 or for users that don`t like Gnome3 but still like Gnome2, old school look. Discussion: #1: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2011-11-13 02:37:52) Linux Mint reported 40% increase in user base due the fact they stick with Gnome 2. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1847 #2: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) (2011-11-17 14:43:43) (reply to #1) That`s true, i wonder if this can boost openSUSE in popularity as well :) #4: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2011-12-26 16:03:53) (reply to #1) What method is used to determine number (40%)? In other words, taking that you don't have registered users as proprietary solutions, how do you count your user base? See this http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org#trafficstats and add whatever site you like in the fields below graph. That is: * expressed in numbers of visitors * it is result of third party service - not a potential self promotion #3: xitix collian (xitix) (2011-12-01 09:45:29) It is like Gnome Desktop Environment developers are now working against Linux... Pure Gnome3 is just a BIG & major regress on Linux desktop, it makes Linux desktop productivity more difficult and bring useless features. Even the bars are frozen, you cannot interact, neither visual customize or configure anything. The only Linux Mint & Mate bring some hope... I have installed open SUSE just because Linux Mint 12 have some installation bugs on HP d530 desktop, if no Mate repo I will leave open SUSE. #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2011-12-26 18:04:16) (reply to #3) You was under different name/nick on mail lists (your desktop tells that). Your short sentence about GNOME3 tells how much effort you put to learn new GUI (graphical user interface), which is to be honest too little to make any informed decision. It shows that you tried some methods that worked with previous version, and they didn't work. For that I needed lesser then 10 seconds. I'm not Gnome user, so you can imagine that when I was able to use it in a minutes, it must be at least something well designed. This screenshot http://en.opensuse.org/images/2/2d/OpenSUSE_12.1_GNOME_in_action.png shows what I've seen. Customizations are something that will come. They are not essential for desktop functionality so their development comes after basic functionality works dependably. The Linux Mint is yet another distro that I didn't find compelling reasons to try, unlike Ubuntu, but their effort with Mate is at the beginning and it will have initial problems as any other development project. That will not help to integrate it very soon in openSUSE, as people that are interested in it and skilled enough to create packages that will build and run under openSUSE, will have more trouble to do that. The same happened with Unity. At the end guy that tried to package it for openSUSE gave up until Ubuntu will have stable version. Your threat to leave openSUSE if there is no Mate desktop has not effect on speed and chance to see Mate in openSUSE, as it depends on other factors that you can influence only if you take time and learn how to bring it in openSUSE. That is the same route Ilya, a guy that created this feature request, took with KDE3. KDE3 lives within openSUSE just because he made that happen, not because he said "I will not use openSUSE if someone doesn't bring KDE3 to me." and then someone, all of the sudden, dropped all of his favorite activities within openSUSE to satisfy Ilya's wish for KDE3. There is OBS ( http://build.opensuse.org ) that offers relatively easy way to bring in software and package it for openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu and more. There is helpful community of packagers willing to help those that want to put in some effort, but they will not abandon their favorite projects to package and maintain anything for those that only show up and say "I want this." #6: Lisias Toledo (lisias) (2012-02-14 00:37:21) (reply to #5) Your long sentence tells me how much you much effort you put to learn about users : squat. ;-) People don't want (and will not) change to and learn a new Desktop if switching to a new distro is easier and faster. I'm, on the other hand, a long time OpenSUSE user - I started with SLS (yes! before Slackware!), gived a try to Red Hat but sticked with Conectiva for some time until I got a chance to know Yast! and believe me, this is the first time since then I'm wondering if Yast! is really so important to me (and it's important - I did gone through some serious pain to install OpenSUSE on a VPS that doesn't support it just for the sake of Yast! - and I don't regret it, it already paid itself on the first month fastening 80% of my configuration efforts). Gnome 3 is not for everyone, and definitivelly, not for me. You are right about all the rest, however. Threatening to leave is childish. Mature ones just leave, without notice. #7: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2012-06-18 17:43:08) People... there is no reason for hostility, and if people like hostility and violence, my advice would be... buy yourself some dildos and engage on a dildo fight... Don't forget to video tape it and share with the community, we all need a good laugh once in a while :) Regarding MATE... GNOME:Cinnamon:MATE and it's happening without any ensurance it will ever join Factory, lets see how it goes... Currently under integration work, so it's not ready for users... only for people who can fix things. + #8: Elmar Haag (hans_linux) (2012-10-25 09:39:40) + I tested MATE on Mint and Sabayon. Not as good as Gnome2 but still much + better than the fiddly and inefficient Gnome 3 or KDE. Especially on + Notebooks. I look after 6 desktops and 4 notebooks in my extended + family and will switch them from Gnome 2 and Gnome to MATE. Gnome 3 is + just a waste of time. It takes 3 - 4 mouse actions to switch between an + application displayed in one Workspace to an application displayed in + another Workspace. If there are several windows open, they are shrunk + in size and have moved from their original position. This is crazy and + drives people nuts when using Libre Office Word, Calc, email etc. on a + Notebook PC for serious work. + Hans -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312946

Feature changed by: Richard Brown (RBrownSUSE) Feature #312946, revision 17 Title: Mate repo for openSUSE - openSUSE Distribution: Implementation + openSUSE Distribution: Done Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Ursan Marius Bogdan (creatura85) Developer: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Around the world users still like the Gnome 2 DE. Gnome2 has forked now in to Mate DE https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment , so i think that beside a kde3 repo, a Mate repo for Gnome2 users of openSUSE is needed. Business case (Partner benefit): openSUSE.org: The Mate repo can be used by users who cant run Gnome3 or for users that don`t like Gnome3 but still like Gnome2, old school look. Discussion: #1: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2011-11-13 02:37:52) Linux Mint reported 40% increase in user base due the fact they stick with Gnome 2. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1847 #2: ursan marius bogdan (creatura85) (2011-11-17 14:43:43) (reply to #1) That`s true, i wonder if this can boost openSUSE in popularity as well :) #4: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2011-12-26 16:03:53) (reply to #1) What method is used to determine number (40%)? In other words, taking that you don't have registered users as proprietary solutions, how do you count your user base? See this http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org#trafficstats and add whatever site you like in the fields below graph. That is: * expressed in numbers of visitors * it is result of third party service - not a potential self promotion #3: xitix collian (xitix) (2011-12-01 09:45:29) It is like Gnome Desktop Environment developers are now working against Linux... Pure Gnome3 is just a BIG & major regress on Linux desktop, it makes Linux desktop productivity more difficult and bring useless features. Even the bars are frozen, you cannot interact, neither visual customize or configure anything. The only Linux Mint & Mate bring some hope... I have installed open SUSE just because Linux Mint 12 have some installation bugs on HP d530 desktop, if no Mate repo I will leave open SUSE. #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2011-12-26 18:04:16) (reply to #3) You was under different name/nick on mail lists (your desktop tells that). Your short sentence about GNOME3 tells how much effort you put to learn new GUI (graphical user interface), which is to be honest too little to make any informed decision. It shows that you tried some methods that worked with previous version, and they didn't work. For that I needed lesser then 10 seconds. I'm not Gnome user, so you can imagine that when I was able to use it in a minutes, it must be at least something well designed. This screenshot http://en.opensuse.org/images/2/2d/OpenSUSE_12.1_GNOME_in_action.png shows what I've seen. Customizations are something that will come. They are not essential for desktop functionality so their development comes after basic functionality works dependably. The Linux Mint is yet another distro that I didn't find compelling reasons to try, unlike Ubuntu, but their effort with Mate is at the beginning and it will have initial problems as any other development project. That will not help to integrate it very soon in openSUSE, as people that are interested in it and skilled enough to create packages that will build and run under openSUSE, will have more trouble to do that. The same happened with Unity. At the end guy that tried to package it for openSUSE gave up until Ubuntu will have stable version. Your threat to leave openSUSE if there is no Mate desktop has not effect on speed and chance to see Mate in openSUSE, as it depends on other factors that you can influence only if you take time and learn how to bring it in openSUSE. That is the same route Ilya, a guy that created this feature request, took with KDE3. KDE3 lives within openSUSE just because he made that happen, not because he said "I will not use openSUSE if someone doesn't bring KDE3 to me." and then someone, all of the sudden, dropped all of his favorite activities within openSUSE to satisfy Ilya's wish for KDE3. There is OBS ( http://build.opensuse.org ) that offers relatively easy way to bring in software and package it for openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu and more. There is helpful community of packagers willing to help those that want to put in some effort, but they will not abandon their favorite projects to package and maintain anything for those that only show up and say "I want this." #6: Lisias Toledo (lisias) (2012-02-14 00:37:21) (reply to #5) Your long sentence tells me how much you much effort you put to learn about users : squat. ;-) People don't want (and will not) change to and learn a new Desktop if switching to a new distro is easier and faster. I'm, on the other hand, a long time OpenSUSE user - I started with SLS (yes! before Slackware!), gived a try to Red Hat but sticked with Conectiva for some time until I got a chance to know Yast! and believe me, this is the first time since then I'm wondering if Yast! is really so important to me (and it's important - I did gone through some serious pain to install OpenSUSE on a VPS that doesn't support it just for the sake of Yast! - and I don't regret it, it already paid itself on the first month fastening 80% of my configuration efforts). Gnome 3 is not for everyone, and definitivelly, not for me. You are right about all the rest, however. Threatening to leave is childish. Mature ones just leave, without notice. #7: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2012-06-18 17:43:08) People... there is no reason for hostility, and if people like hostility and violence, my advice would be... buy yourself some dildos and engage on a dildo fight... Don't forget to video tape it and share with the community, we all need a good laugh once in a while :) Regarding MATE... GNOME:Cinnamon:MATE and it's happening without any ensurance it will ever join Factory, lets see how it goes... Currently under integration work, so it's not ready for users... only for people who can fix things. #8: Elmar Haag (hans_linux) (2012-10-25 09:39:40) I tested MATE on Mint and Sabayon. Not as good as Gnome2 but still much better than the fiddly and inefficient Gnome 3 or KDE. Especially on Notebooks. I look after 6 desktops and 4 notebooks in my extended family and will switch them from Gnome 2 and Gnome to MATE. Gnome 3 is just a waste of time. It takes 3 - 4 mouse actions to switch between an application displayed in one Workspace to an application displayed in another Workspace. If there are several windows open, they are shrunk in size and have moved from their original position. This is crazy and drives people nuts when using Libre Office Word, Calc, email etc. on a Notebook PC for serious work. Hans #9: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2012-10-28 02:22:35) There is currently a MATE repository with MATE 1.4.0 for openSUSE with initial integration and not so good packaging; that's how it started. I have a MATE 1.5.0 (development) ready for Factory inclusion with the base packages from MATE, and currently for user usage we only need 2 more packages, mate-media and mate-mime. The integration of MATE from a technical perspective is done and the updates on XDG required to run MATE have been pushed by me and accepted by maintenance. Furthermore I opened a bug report for SUSE Security and in the mean time sent a mail to opensuse-factory, which got no replies except one from Christian Vega claiming that if didn't had support for system-logind it shouldn't be accepted. This is another example of fine stupidity from the systemd fanboys, since LXDE and others don't have support for it. Dimstar claims that software included might be under different rules (which sounds irrational to me, since all packages should be subject to the same rules in my humble retarded opinion). From a late talk with darix, I got to know that only coolo and cartman have veto powers for inclusion.. So honestly I don't know what to do, I don't mind submitting and maintaining; I'm a part of upstream MATE so, all issues we have should be able to be fixed in real time, either by me directly or through other people on the team with me working as proxy between openSUSE and MATE upstream. I'm preparing a spin o MATE 1.6.0 to which I called 'Moniz' with extended features just as a workaround and so that I don't have to deal with systemd fanboys like Christian Vega; I don't need useless troubles in my mind neither I want problems, but I won't step down in a fight if someone imposes it. Another solution is to provide the packages through repos.mate-desktop.org mirrored from OBS. This to say that if anyone wants MATE to be included in openSUSE just make X11:MATE:Factory a development project and the packages will be submitted after the SUSE Security Team review. The packaging was improved a lot to meet Dimstar's changelog criteria (hopefully) and general openSUSE guidelines. The stuff works fine. So... someone broke my motivation (Christian Vega), but I don't mind to answer the calls of the brave souls to want it and move this forward... Even /etc/sysconfig/windowmanager supports 'mate' as value on the pre- defined window manager without patching. Anyone can provide me accurate information (coolo? cartman?) if systemd- login is a blocker or not? 1. MATE should work fine with it through PAM; 2. Only user swapping will require some code refactoring; this will be done by upstream once we have all the migration done to DBus/GSettings and drop the CORBA/mateconf (gconf2) stuff and clear all the known bugs. Before CK will be dropped MATE will support it for sure, and I would even dare to say that it will happen even before it happens on other DE's which are not bound to the same 'requirements'. It's not in my hands... it's up to coolo or cartman with a bitch slap to Vega. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/312946