[opensuse-factory] KDE3 has been removed from openSUSE Tumbleweed
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/buglist.cgi?chfield=[Bug%20creation]&chfieldfrom=5y&chfieldto=Now&columnlist=changeddate%2Crep_platform%2Cbug_severity%2Cbug_status%2Cresolution%2Cproduct%2Cversion%2Ccomponent%2Cvotes%2Ckeywords%2Cstatus_whiteboard%2Cshort_desc&component=KDE3&known_name=KDE3Open&list_id=8995416&query_based_on=KDE3Open&query_format=advanced repositories/KDE:/KDE3/ still exists in BS. Where are bugs for BS packages supposed to be filed? Does the BS have its own separate tracker? -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Felix! On 03/07/2018 03:10 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
repositories/KDE:/KDE3/ still exists in BS. Where are bugs for BS packages supposed to be filed? Does the BS have its own separate tracker?
Do you want to file more KDE3-related bug reports or what are you asking? KDE3 is most likely a lost cause unless you find a dedicated maintenance team which takes care of the necessary work to make it build with modern GCC versions and also port it to support things like logind and so on. Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:17:53 +0100 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <adrian.glaubitz@suse.com> wrote:
KDE3 is most likely a lost cause unless you find a dedicated maintenance team which takes care of the necessary work to make it build with modern GCC versions and also port it to support things like logind and so on.
Wouldn't it be easier to drop it completely and replace it with: https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ ... which is the forked, current & maintained descendant of KDE 3.5 -- effectively 3.5.14-04, as of last November? Packages already exist: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/OpenSUSEInstall -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2018 03:39 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to drop it completely and replace it with:
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
... which is the forked, current & maintained descendant of KDE 3.5 -- effectively 3.5.14-04, as of last November?
I wouldn't consider it maintained though:
https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2012/10/maintaining-history-done-wron...
The problem with old KDE versions is that they depend on a plethora of old softwrae like HAL and Qt3 and just fixing build issues won't do it. In Debian, KDE3 was purged together with Qt3 since something as big as Qt3 being unmaintained is a potential security problem. MATE did it correctly as they ported the GNOME2 codebase to GTK3, did the same happen with Trinity yet, i.e. porting it to Qt5? Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:44:37 +0100 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <adrian.glaubitz@suse.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2018 03:39 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to drop it completely and replace it with:
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
... which is the forked, current & maintained descendant of KDE 3.5 -- effectively 3.5.14-04, as of last November?
I wouldn't consider it maintained though:
https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2012/10/maintaining-history-done-wron...
A fair call. I personally would call it "moribund" -- it's not completely dead but it's quite close.
The problem with old KDE versions is that they depend on a plethora of old softwrae like HAL and Qt3 and just fixing build issues won't do it.
In Debian, KDE3 was purged together with Qt3 since something as big as Qt3 being unmaintained is a potential security problem.
Also a fair call.
MATE did it correctly as they ported the GNOME2 codebase to GTK3,
Agreed, although it took quite a while. AIUI, one of the reasons for the GNOME2/Maté fork was that Gtk3 was unstable in its early releases. Xfce is also moving to Gtk3: https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2017-05-30/road-to-xfce-4.14-part-2.html However, both Maté and Xfce are active projects, used in many distros, with many happy users. (I'm one of them myself, of Xfce.) After both are on a Gtk3 basis, joining Cinnamon, there are some plans to merge their respective suites of accessory applications: https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_sarah_cinnamon_whatsnew.php http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-mint-18 This should reduce the size of all the projects and the amount of duplicated code. There are no such opportunities for Trinity, unfortunately.
did the same happen with Trinity yet, i.e. porting it to Qt5?
Sadly Trinity isn't a very lively project and I don't think there are enough volunteers to support such a signifcant porting effort. I know that when I broached the subject of the Qt-based Unity-2D desktop to the Yunit team, they considered that porting it from Qt4 to Qt5 was not worth the effort, and I am certain that Unity-2 was massively smaller and simpler than KDE 3. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2018 04:11 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
MATE did it correctly as they ported the GNOME2 codebase to GTK3,
Agreed, although it took quite a while.
Exactly. And KDE3 is not going to be an easier task.
AIUI, one of the reasons for the GNOME2/Maté fork was that Gtk3 was unstable in its early releases.
No, the main reason for the fork was that lots of people simply didn't like the UI design in GNOME3 which was radically different than GNOME2 was. It was only later when GNOME3 added a classic mode to address this issue but it was already too late.
Xfce is also moving to Gtk3: https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2017-05-30/road-to-xfce-4.14-part-2.html
However, both Maté and Xfce are active projects, used in many distros, with many happy users. (I'm one of them myself, of Xfce.)
Indeed. And KDE3/Trinity aren't. Btw, it's called "Mate", named after the popular South American tea as guy who forked it comes from Argentina (if I remember correctly) ;).
After both are on a Gtk3 basis, joining Cinnamon, there are some plans to merge their respective suites of accessory applications:
Ugh, what Linux Mint does is just accumulating a large number of bad forks of unmaintained software.
This should reduce the size of all the projects and the amount of duplicated code.
Not really. It just adds another collection of forks of forks. They created "xed" (previously named "xedit", completely ignoring the name clash with the classic X11 application) as a fork of Pluma which is a fork of GEdit for GNOME2. It's a huge mess, to be honest. And even for MATE the future is at risk when the switch from X11 to Wayland happens. They are trying to workaround this issue with the help of Mir, but I am very skeptical.
There are no such opportunities for Trinity, unfortunately.
Well, Trinity is Qt. The applications above are GTK. You wouldn't be saving any code duplication anyway. The moment you install KDE, you pull in a large number of Qt-based library packages anyway and the moment you install any of those Mint X-apps, you will pull in half of a GNOME stack.
did the same happen with Trinity yet, i.e. porting it to Qt5?
Sadly Trinity isn't a very lively project and I don't think there are enough volunteers to support such a signifcant porting effort.
My point exactly.
I know that when I broached the subject of the Qt-based Unity-2D desktop to the Yunit team, they considered that porting it from Qt4 to Qt5 was not worth the effort, and I am certain that Unity-2 was massively smaller and simpler than KDE 3.
Which is the reason KDE3 was removed from most distributions. Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 16:21:09 +0100 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <adrian.glaubitz@suse.com> wrote:
On 03/07/2018 04:11 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
No, the main reason for the fork was that lots of people simply didn't like the UI design in GNOME3 which was radically different than GNOME2 was.
As I said: _one_ reason. Not the main reason, no.
It was only later when GNOME3 added a classic mode to address this issue but it was already too late.
GNOME 3 has had at least 2 different modes to look like the previous release. Fallback Mode: https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnome-3-fallback.html This was a very close approximation of GNOME 2, with the same menus, panels, icons etc. Later there was Classic Mode: https://www.systutorials.com/4611/how-to-enable-gnome-classic-mode-in-fedora... This is more of a hybrid of GNOME Shell and GNOME 2 -- it's the normal GNOME Shell top panel, but with a bottom panel bolted on.
Indeed. And KDE3/Trinity aren't. Btw, it's called "Mate", named after the popular South American tea as guy who forked it comes from Argentina (if I remember correctly) ;).
This is correct and the Argentinians spell the tea "mate", but it's not pronounced like the English word "mate" -- it's mah-tay. So in English it's often spelled maté to distinguish it from the word meaning "friend" or "pal". And since it doesn't stand for anything, putting it in all-caps irritates me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(drink)
Ugh, what Linux Mint does is just accumulating a large number of bad forks of unmaintained software.
Speaking as someone who once based a fairly substantial project off it, I found it very useful and the team helpful and cooperative. They were a major supporter and booster of Maté in its early days, and indeed have made Ubuntu a bit more usable for less-technical folk for a long time. I must confess that I do feel that the "traditional" (i.e. Win9x-like) Gtk-based desktop landscape is getting rather crowded now, with Xfce, Maté and Cinnamon. LXDE migrating over to the Qt side broadens that landscape a little, so that's good. But hey, they're all useful, they all have fans.
This should reduce the size of all the projects and the amount of duplicated code.
Not really. It just adds another collection of forks of forks.
The Xapps initiative is a great idea. At the very least, Maté and Cinnamon could share them -- I really dislike the "client-side-decorations" menubar-less GNOME 3 apps, which I find significantly less usable than their more conventional ancestors. Xfce could usefully adopt several of them, too. More code-sharing between desktops is a *good* thing.
They created "xed" (previously named "xedit", completely ignoring the name clash with the classic X11 application) as a fork of Pluma which is a fork of GEdit for GNOME2.
I use it daily under Xfce. Its proper menu-bar-and-tool-bar UI is more useful and usable to me than the cut-down broken UI that current Gedit has.
It's a huge mess, to be honest. And even for MATE the future is at risk when the switch from X11 to Wayland happens.
It was generally held at GUADEC 2016 that the reason that everyone was switching to Gtk3 was to get Wayland support.
They are trying to workaround this issue with the help of Mir, but I am very skeptical.
I know of no such efforts... Do tell?
There are no such opportunities for Trinity, unfortunately.
Well, Trinity is Qt. The applications above are GTK.
Yes, that was my point.
You wouldn't be saving any code duplication anyway. The moment you install KDE, you pull in a large number of Qt-based library packages anyway and the moment you install any of those Mint X-apps, you will pull in half of a GNOME stack.
Yes, I know. That too was my point. LXQt might mean a choice of lighter-weight Qt accessories, at least.
Which is the reason KDE3 was removed from most distributions.
I thought it was rather simpler than that: that KDE 4 replaced it, and KDE 5 in time replaced KDE 4. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Il giorno Wed, 7 Mar 2018 18:23:54 +0100 Liam Proven <lproven@suse.com> ha scritto:
I thought it was rather simpler than that: that KDE 4 replaced it, and KDE 5 in time replaced KDE 4.
Nitpick: there's no KDE 5: KDE is the community now, you refer to Plasma, the desktop made by KDE. That said, we didn't jump immediately, IIRC we waited till Plasma 5.2 to make the 4.x -> 5.x transition. But we had to do it anyway, because no one in their sane mind would ship a DE (and applications) in the main distribution that relies completely on EOL stuff. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team GPG key ID: A29D259B
Apologies to everyone for getting too much off-topic. I will stop after this. On 03/07/2018 06:23 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
No, the main reason for the fork was that lots of people simply didn't like the UI design in GNOME3 which was radically different than GNOME2 was.
As I said: _one_ reason. Not the main reason, no.
Well, ok.
It was only later when GNOME3 added a classic mode to address this issue but it was already too late.
GNOME 3 has had at least 2 different modes to look like the previous release.
Fallback Mode:
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnome-3-fallback.html
This was a very close approximation of GNOME 2, with the same menus, panels, icons etc.
Later there was Classic Mode:
https://www.systutorials.com/4611/how-to-enable-gnome-classic-mode-in-fedora...
This is more of a hybrid of GNOME Shell and GNOME 2 -- it's the normal GNOME Shell top panel, but with a bottom panel bolted on.
Yes, I am aware of these. I used to use GNOME3 from very early on. The fallback mode was made available quite early and wasn't meant to be a GNOME2 replacement. It was rather designed to be a fallback when your hardware wasn't powerful enough for GPU-accelerated GNOME3, hence the name "fallback mode".
Indeed. And KDE3/Trinity aren't. Btw, it's called "Mate", named after the popular South American tea as guy who forked it comes from Argentina (if I remember correctly) ;).
This is correct and the Argentinians spell the tea "mate", but it's not pronounced like the English word "mate" -- it's mah-tay. So in English it's often spelled maté to distinguish it from the word meaning "friend" or "pal". And since it doesn't stand for anything, putting it in all-caps irritates me.
The MATE project themselves spells it in all-caps:
Btw, I used to be part of the MATE team, both in Debian and upstream. You will still see all MATE packages in Debian associated with my name.
Ugh, what Linux Mint does is just accumulating a large number of bad forks of unmaintained software.
Speaking as someone who once based a fairly substantial project off it, I found it very useful and the team helpful and cooperative.
No, not really. Speaking as a Debian Developer, lots of their packages outright violate the Debian Policy. I have had arguments with Linux Mint folks over that and I learned that they aren't really interested in adhering to certain software quality standards. Linux Mint is the very definition of a FrankenDebian:
https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_make_a_FrankenDebian
They are wildly mixing repositories instead of importing the source packages and rebuilding everything in their own environment. That's what Ubuntu does. This is why Linux Mint's graphical updater keeps certain package updates back as they know those could cause issues with APT and result in the package installation state becoming broken. On both Debian stable and Ubuntu release, no updates are ever hold back as updates are guaranteed to not break APT.
They were a major supporter and booster of Maté in its early days, and indeed have made Ubuntu a bit more usable for less-technical folk for a long time.
MATE. See the project's homepage. And, no, they weren't really a booster. The project originated in ArchLinux and at some point MATE people asked me and another Debian Developer to get MATE packaged in Debian which we did. I lost interest at some point though when theming got constantly broken in Debian unstable due to GTK3's theme engine constantly changing and users kept flooding the Debian bug tracker complaining about this and other constant breakages.
I must confess that I do feel that the "traditional" (i.e. Win9x-like) Gtk-based desktop landscape is getting rather crowded now, with Xfce, Maté and Cinnamon. LXDE migrating over to the Qt side broadens that landscape a little, so that's good.
But hey, they're all useful, they all have fans.
And some of them are most likely going to die when the community switches to Wayland unless they manage the jump.
This should reduce the size of all the projects and the amount of duplicated code.
Not really. It just adds another collection of forks of forks.
The Xapps initiative is a great idea. At the very least, Maté and Cinnamon could share them -- I really dislike the "client-side-decorations" menubar-less GNOME 3 apps, which I find significantly less usable than their more conventional ancestors. Xfce could usefully adopt several of them, too. More code-sharing between desktops is a *good* thing.
It might have been a good idea. But the implementation was horrible.
They created "xed" (previously named "xedit", completely ignoring the name clash with the classic X11 application) as a fork of Pluma which is a fork of GEdit for GNOME2.
I use it daily under Xfce. Its proper menu-bar-and-tool-bar UI is more useful and usable to me than the cut-down broken UI that current Gedit has.
I don't consider GEdit as a good reference. I'm a KDE user these days and Emacs is still my editor of choice. I don't need a GUI for writing code.
It's a huge mess, to be honest. And even for MATE the future is at risk when the switch from X11 to Wayland happens.
It was generally held at GUADEC 2016 that the reason that everyone was switching to Gtk3 was to get Wayland support.
You still need to add Wayland support to the underlying window manager which is something that is quite a bit of work. Hence, the MATE folks decided to take the Mir detour:
This post is by Martin Wimpress who is one of the main MATE developers these days.
They are trying to workaround this issue with the help of Mir, but I am very skeptical.
I know of no such efforts... Do tell?
See above. It was on various news sites like Phoronix.
There are no such opportunities for Trinity, unfortunately.
Well, Trinity is Qt. The applications above are GTK.
Yes, that was my point.
And?
You wouldn't be saving any code duplication anyway. The moment you install KDE, you pull in a large number of Qt-based library packages anyway and the moment you install any of those Mint X-apps, you will pull in half of a GNOME stack.
Yes, I know. That too was my point. LXQt might mean a choice of lighter-weight Qt accessories, at least.
Have you tried KDE5 recently? It's not really heavy-weight. It's much lighter than KDE4. The default installation of KDE5 on openSUSE TW is rock-solid, snappy and a very polished product. It's a huge improvement over previous KDE versions and I am saying that as someone who started with KDE 1.0 in 1998 ;).
Which is the reason KDE3 was removed from most distributions.
I thought it was rather simpler than that: that KDE 4 replaced it, and KDE 5 in time replaced KDE 4.
Debian used to have Qt3 and Qt4 packaged at the same time and they do have Qt4 and Qt5 now packaged at the same time with the goal to phase out Qt4 support. Packaging Qt is a rather large effort these days which is why you want to keep the number of different versions in your distribution as low as possible with preferably only one version packaged. Unfortunately, there are still quite a number of applications which haven't been ported from Qt4 to Qt5 so Qt4 is still part of most distributions, although porting from Qt4 to Qt5 is usually much easier as compared to porting from Qt3 to Qt4. My own Qt4 application was ported to Qt5 within a few minutes. Either way, the main reason why KDE3 was kicked out of most distributions was the end of maintenance and hence removal of Qt3 and the fact that KDE3 was eventually dead upstream. Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 01:28:48 +0100 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <adrian.glaubitz@suse.com> wrote:
Apologies to everyone for getting too much off-topic. I will stop after this.
All right. I'll reply offlist. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Liam Proven composed on 2018-03-07 16:11 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:44:37 +0100 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
Liam Proven wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to drop it completely and replace it with:
... which is the forked, current & maintained descendant of KDE 3.5 -- effectively 3.5.14-04, as of last November?
I wouldn't consider it maintained though:
https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2012/10/maintaining-history-done-wron...
A fair call. I personally would call it "moribund" -- it's not completely dead but it's quite close.
I have it working on about as many installations as I do KDE3. I have fewer of KDE5, as it remains inferior to KDE3 due to pallidity, feature loss and bloat. What ain't broke don't need fixin.
MATE did it correctly as they ported the GNOME2 codebase to GTK3,
Agreed, although it took quite a while.
GTK3 is another abomination.
AIUI, one of the reasons for the GNOME2/Maté fork was that Gtk3 was unstable in its early releases.
Xfce is also moving to Gtk3: https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2017-05-30/road-to-xfce-4.14-part-2.html
However, both Maté and Xfce are active projects, used in many distros, with many happy users. (I'm one of them myself, of Xfce.)
After both are on a Gtk3 basis, joining Cinnamon, there are some plans to merge their respective suites of accessory applications:
https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_sarah_cinnamon_whatsnew.php
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-mint-18
This should reduce the size of all the projects and the amount of duplicated code.
There are no such opportunities for Trinity, unfortunately.
did the same happen with Trinity yet, i.e. porting it to Qt5?
Sadly Trinity isn't a very lively project and I don't think there are enough volunteers to support such a signifcant porting effort.
IIRC the consensus there is porting to newer QT is undesirable for multiple reasons. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2018 04:25 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I have it working on about as many installations as I do KDE3. I have fewer of KDE5, as it remains inferior to KDE3 due to pallidity, feature loss and bloat.
There are lots of unfixed bugs though.
What ain't broke don't need fixin.
You still need someone to take care of source code. Almost anything that is unmaintained will break at some point and KDE3 is already broken.
Agreed, although it took quite a while.
GTK3 is another abomination.
It's still the oldest version of GTK that is still maintained while GTK2 isn't.
Sadly Trinity isn't a very lively project and I don't think there are enough volunteers to support such a signifcant porting effort.
IIRC the consensus there is porting to newer QT is undesirable for multiple reasons.
Then there is zero chance KDE3 will ever be part of any of the larger distributions which won't touch Qt3 with a ten-feet pole. I was actually very surprised when I heard that it was still in openSUSE as anytime a CVE shows up there will be no one to fix it. Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 16:31 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 03/07/2018 04:25 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I have it working on about as many installations as I do KDE3. I have fewer of KDE5, as it remains inferior to KDE3 due to pallidity, feature loss and bloat.
There are lots of unfixed bugs though.
What ain't broke don't need fixin.
You still need someone to take care of source code. Almost anything that is unmaintained will break at some point and KDE3 is already broken.
Agreed, although it took quite a while.
GTK3 is another abomination.
It's still the oldest version of GTK that is still maintained while GTK2 isn't.
GTK2 at least is on life-supprt. There are still regular commits to git (of course not as many as GTK3 or even GTK4), but still... The latest version update was to 2.24.32, packaged by openSUSE GNOME Team on Jan 9 2018 - that's far from long ago. Still, I'll be happy to see GTK2 to disappear too. Cheers Dominique
On 07.03.2018 15:44, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
MATE did it correctly as they ported the GNOME2 codebase to GTK3,
You obviously have never looked at the MATE code ;-) Sorry for OT -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2018 05:20 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 07.03.2018 15:44, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
MATE did it correctly as they ported the GNOME2 codebase to GTK3,
You obviously have never looked at the MATE code ;-)
Huh? What do you mean? I used to be part of Debian's Mate package maintainer team and I was there when we switched to GTK3. Since 1.18, MATE is completely GTK3:
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/mate-1-18-desktop-released-now-gtk3
What makes you think otherwise? Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07.03.2018 17:24, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 03/07/2018 05:20 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 07.03.2018 15:44, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
MATE did it correctly as they ported the GNOME2 codebase to GTK3,
You obviously have never looked at the MATE code ;-)
Huh? What do you mean? I used to be part of Debian's Mate package maintainer team
R E S P E C T. My stomach wouldn't have been able to handle that. Back at the time upower switched API and everything using it just silently stopped working, I tried to get fixes to mate-power-manager for new-upower- compatibility upstream. An experience I'd rather not repeat. Both code and community-wise. But I had learned enough to just fix xfce4-power-manager for new upower :-)
What makes you think otherwise?
I never questioned that Mate is full GTK3, I just voiced my disgust about the code quality (this was spring 2014, it is of course possible this is much better nowadays. I never dared to look at it again). -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz composed on 2018-03-07 15:17 (UTC+0100):
On 03/07/2018 03:10 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
repositories/KDE:/KDE3/ still exists in BS. Where are bugs for BS packages supposed to be filed? Does the BS have its own separate tracker?
Do you want to file more KDE3-related bug reports or what are you asking?
How are existing bugs, whether already reported or yet to be discovered, supposed to be accounted for by mere KDE3 users if dimstar will close them WONTFIX because they are attributed to product:TW?
KDE3 is most likely a lost cause unless you find a dedicated maintenance team which takes care of the necessary work to make it build with modern GCC versions and also port it to support things like logind and so on.
Apparently we have a de facto "team": https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde3/2018-02/msg00018.html -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2018 03:39 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Do you want to file more KDE3-related bug reports or what are you asking?
How are existing bugs, whether already reported or yet to be discovered, supposed to be accounted for by mere KDE3 users if dimstar will close them WONTFIX because they are attributed to product:TW?
Because the possibility that someone will actually go ahead and fix them is near zero. As I said, getting KDE3 back into a usable and stable state will require lots of man power. It's not a matter of fixing a few issues here and there. You need a dedicated maintenance team and I don't think that there is currently anyone interested in doing that.
KDE3 is most likely a lost cause unless you find a dedicated maintenance team which takes care of the necessary work to make it build with modern GCC versions and also port it to support things like logind and so on.
Apparently we have a de facto "team": https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde3/2018-02/msg00018.html
People sending patches in to keep KDE3 on life support is not a proper maintenance team. There is far more stuff to be done than just fixing build issues. Adrian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 09:39 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz composed on 2018-03-07 15:17 (UTC+0100):
On 03/07/2018 03:10 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
repositories/KDE:/KDE3/ still exists in BS. Where are bugs for BS packages supposed to be filed? Does the BS have its own separate tracker? Do you want to file more KDE3-related bug reports or what are you asking?
How are existing bugs, whether already reported or yet to be discovered, supposed to be accounted for by mere KDE3 users if dimstar will close them WONTFIX because they are attributed to product:TW?
Oh, just to make it clear: ALL Leap:42.x/KDE3 bugs are invalid in my view: there was no KDE3 in Leap 42.x The only 'sort-of- validity there is for 42.x/KDE is that Qt3 was (accidentally?) shipped as part of Leap 42.x with a few packages depending on it. Cheers Dominique
On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 09:10 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
repositories/KDE:/KDE3/ still exists in BS. Where are bugs for BS packages supposed to be filed? Does the BS have its own separate tracker?
Following the 'report bug' on https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/KDE:KDE3/abakus (just picked the first package in KDE:KDE3, no special relevance) for exmaple gives: product: openSUSE.org Component: 3rd party software Cheers Dominique
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar composed on 2018-03-07 15:20 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 09:10 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
repositories/KDE:/KDE3/ still exists in BS. Where are bugs for BS packages supposed to be filed? Does the BS have its own separate tracker?
Following the 'report bug' on https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/KDE:KDE3/abakus (just picked the first package in KDE:KDE3, no special relevance)
for exmaple gives:
product: openSUSE.org Component: 3rd party software
I don't understand the meaning of this reply. Is it OK for KDE3 bugs to be tracked on BOO as long as the product/component is not TW:KDE3? For mere mortal users, if not everyone, it's vexing for openSUSE release and TW bug tracking to be arbitrarily split amongst various trackers, e.g. BuiOO, BugOO, Github, Trello & what else? -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 10:11 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar composed on 2018-03-07 15:20 (UTC+0100):
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/buglist.cgi?chfield=[Bug%20creation]&chfieldfrom=5y&chfieldto=Now&columnlist=changeddate%2Crep_platform%2Cbug_severity%2Cbug_status%2Cresolution%2Cproduct%2Cversion%2Ccomponent%2Cvotes%2Ckeywords%2Cstatus_whiteboard%2Cshort_desc&component=KDE3&known_name=KDE3Open&list_id=8995416&query_based_on=KDE3Open&query_format=advanced repositories/KDE:/KDE3/ still exists in BS. Where are bugs for BS packages supposed to be filed? Does the BS have its own separate tracker? Following the 'report bug' on https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/KDE:KDE3/abakus (just picked the first package in KDE:KDE3, no special relevance) for exmaple gives:
On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 09:10 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: product: openSUSE.org Component: 3rd party software
I don't understand the meaning of this reply. Is it OK for KDE3 bugs to be tracked on BOO as long as the product/component is not TW:KDE3?
Yes - opensuse.org / 3rd party software is for any random package in OBS. KDE3 belongs to that category. Cheers Dominique
participants (6)
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Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar -
Felix Miata -
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz -
Liam Proven -
Luca Beltrame -
Stefan Seyfried