[opensuse-factory] openFATE: proposal for next steps
The boosters are working on enhancing openFATE so that the screening team can really work with openFATE and I have now added a proposal on what needs be done and added this to the wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening#What.27s_missing_to_make_... Is anything missing? Any changes needed? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 24 September 2010 09:19:21 Andreas Jaeger wrote:
The boosters are working on enhancing openFATE so that the screening team can really work with openFATE and I have now added a proposal on what needs be done and added this to the wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening#What.27s_missing_to_make _the_screening_team_efficiently_work.3F
Is anything missing? Any changes needed?
Andreas
Section: New proposal * Add Interested Exists as in I can add my self * List of all features in state "Eval by team lead (TL)" (Marketplace/open for grab) with specific tags I added "team lead (TL)". It is better to use full expression like "team lead" then put in parenthesis abbreviation that will be used in the rest of the text. (Marketplace/open for grab) Means? I understand as feature can be taken by any student that needs creative work for his studies. ** Requirement: at least one tag set Where the "tag" is? If that is top left keyword, then it needs some work. Now it is buggy. One has to write "kernel_driver" to get that added as a single tag, instead of plain language "kernel driver". It is intuitive to use comma as separator, just as it will appear after adding few keywords. ** Set pm/tpm/tl to default values ** set same priority for pm and tpm The same story as with TL. Only insiders understand what those acronyms mean. Also, I guess that each "Eval TL" is "Eval by TL". Where do we put improvements to user interface? By now children know what is word "edit", but pencil icon is not so clear. I haven't seen that kind of edit command often used. Editor itself is a bit on user unfriendly side. You can't see how formatting will look before adding a comment. Even, 10 years old Wikipedia that is not example of user friendly editing has Preview button. Save on top of the screen, that is out of sight even in modestly commented features, is another "feature" that should be places right next to the edited part. On the other hand anyone can change whole feature description changing completely what the feature is about. Again, Wikipedia has that solved with history for a very long time. Maybe good old MediaWiki with few extensions should be considered as feature tracker. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 29 September 2010 05:25:22 Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 24 September 2010 09:19:21 Andreas Jaeger wrote:
The boosters are working on enhancing openFATE so that the screening team can really work with openFATE and I have now added a proposal on what needs be done and added this to the wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening#What.27s_missing_to_ma ke _the_screening_team_efficiently_work.3F
Is anything missing? Any changes needed?
Andreas
Section: New proposal
* Add Interested
Exists as in I can add my self
But you cannot add others that you might think are interested.
* List of all features in state "Eval by team lead (TL)" (Marketplace/open for grab) with specific tags
I added "team lead (TL)". It is better to use full expression like "team lead" then put in parenthesis abbreviation that will be used in the rest of the text.
(Marketplace/open for grab) Means? I understand as feature can be taken by any student that needs creative work for his studies.
Currently we do not have team leads for openSUSE, so I would rename the complete entry from "Evaluation by team lead" to something else. The proposal was "up for grab" or "marketplace" - and it can be taken by anybody not only students ;)
** Requirement: at least one tag set Where the "tag" is?
I guess we should define a couple of known tags that then others can search for in the second step.
If that is top left keyword, then it needs some work. Now it is buggy. One has to write "kernel_driver" to get that added as a single tag, instead of plain language "kernel driver". It is intuitive to use comma as separator, just as it will appear after adding few keywords.
Yes, the top left keyword and let's write this one up as well. Adding with commas work.
** Set pm/tpm/tl to default values ** set same priority for pm and tpm
The same story as with TL. Only insiders understand what those acronyms mean. Also, I guess that each "Eval TL" is "Eval by TL".
I want to hide the pm/tpm/tl - as it's done now -
Where do we put improvements to user interface?
See the last part "Additionally the following convenience and usability improvements should be done:" - I split it now on the wiki page.
By now children know what is word "edit", but pencil icon is not so clear. I haven't seen that kind of edit command often used.
Editor itself is a bit on user unfriendly side. You can't see how formatting will look before adding a comment. Even, 10 years old Wikipedia that is not example of user friendly editing has Preview button.
Added.
Save on top of the screen, that is out of sight even in modestly commented features, is another "feature" that should be places right next to the edited part.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, could you rephrase this, please?
On the other hand anyone can change whole feature description changing completely what the feature is about. Again, Wikipedia has that solved with history for a very long time.
Maybe good old MediaWiki with few extensions should be considered as feature tracker.
An option as well - it just does not integrate with the way Novell works right now but if it benefits us so much then let's use the superior solution, Perhaps we need to step also back and discuss the whole process first more instead of deciding on tools, Thanks for the feedback, I'm reworking the page now a bit, hope this helps, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Thanks for your effort to take a step forward, AJ. (2010/09/29 21:01), Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On Wednesday 29 September 2010 05:25:22 Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 24 September 2010 09:19:21 Andreas Jaeger wrote:
The boosters are working on enhancing openFATE so that the screening team can really work with openFATE and I have now added a proposal on what needs be done and added this to the wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening#What.27s_missing_to_make_...
Is anything missing? Any changes needed?
Generally, I have no problem with your proposal. However, there are still some points that are unclear for me. * Setting of Info provider What is the role of Info provider? Who can be that? * Reject feature In which case can we reject a feature? * Transition "New" to "Eval by Team lead" (market place) You mean, current "Evaluation" state will be replaced with "Eval by Team lead" and "up for grab" or "marketplace"? When and who should change the state from "new" to those status? Screening team, or each team lead?
Currently we do not have team leads for openSUSE, so I would rename the complete entry from "Evaluation by team lead" to something else.
What is the role of screening team in this process? Let's see a specific example. #310643: Easier System Configuration with KDE https://features.opensuse.org/310643 I suppose this feature should be evaluated by KDE team. Then, what should I do as a member of screening team? Changing the state from "New" (actually, it's still "Unconfirmed", though) to "Evaluation by team lead" would be just enough? Or, should I notify KDE team of this feature first? If I have to notify the appropriate team of newly posted features, I need to know which team can implement what kind of features. * Transition "Eval by team lead" (market place) to "Implementation" Who can/should change the state from "Eval by team lead" (market place) to "Implementation"? When someone click the button "I will do this", will the state automatically be changed? Even if I have the right to change the status of features, I won't be able to move into action, if above things are not clear. And I think those procedure should be shared by each members of screening team (and probably each team leads) first. Best, -- _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto - openSUSE Member - Japan _/_/ _/_/ Marketing/Weekly News/openFATE Screening Team _/_/ _/_/ mail: helios_reds_at_gmx.net / irc: HeliosReds _/_/ _/_/ http://blog.zaq.ne.jp/opensuse/ _/_/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 29 September 2010 07:01:22 Andreas Jaeger wrote: ...
Exists as in I can add my self
But you cannot add others that you might think are interested.
Is this desirable? Some prank can add anyone to any feature.
* List of all features in state "Eval by team lead (TL)" (Marketplace/open for grab) with specific tags ... Currently we do not have team leads for openSUSE, so I would rename the complete entry from "Evaluation by team lead" to something else.
We will have to create someone that is able and held responsible to make decision. I'm really tired to repeat that flat "structure" as it is now (we are all members except few that are board) will bring nothing, just as it did not bring anything in the past. There must be known member that will be called team lead for each and every team.
The proposal was "up for grab" or "marketplace" - and it can be taken by anybody not only students ;)
Students need projects to apply their knowledge, teachers need projects to give students assignments, the rest of the world can grab open features, but even that should be organized. In other words we want to know who works on some feature, what he/she/they did, how many bugs they have ahead, where they keep files, if there are subprojects their relation (dependencies), approximate time to accomplish, and probably more that I can't think of. (not a project manager)
** Requirement: at least one tag set Where the "tag" is?
I guess we should define a couple of known tags that then others can search for in the second step.
When you start typing there will be drop down list. Looking at the content it appear to me that is not browser attempt to offer words that were previously used.
If that is top left keyword, then it needs some work. Now it is buggy. One has to write "kernel_driver" to get that added as a single tag, instead of plain language "kernel driver". It is intuitive to use comma as separator, just as it will appear after adding few keywords.
Yes, the top left keyword and let's write this one up as well. Adding with commas work.
I used this feature to test adding tags: https://features.opensuse.org/305080 Using comma in "runlevel, inittab" result in: "You entered an malformed url!" and only inittab is added. "run level" results in added tags "run, level". In other words it accepts space separated single words. ...
Where do we put improvements to user interface?
See the last part "Additionally the following convenience and usability improvements should be done:" - I split it now on the wiki page.
OK.
By now children know what is word "edit", but pencil icon is not so clear. I haven't seen that kind of edit command often used.
Editor itself is a bit on user unfriendly side. You can't see how formatting will look before adding a comment. Even, 10 years old Wikipedia that is not example of user friendly editing has Preview button.
Added.
Save on top of the screen, that is out of sight even in modestly commented features, is another "feature" that should be places right next to the edited part.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, could you rephrase this, please?
It is about save feature after some of entries are changed. I know that this is the case for adding the comment. Save feature is on the top of the screen. "This feature has unsaved changes! Please save when you are done." [Save feature] [Revert changes] I just tested on https://features.opensuse.org/305929 that has enough comments. Page reloads and user can see warning that feature is not saved, but comment is few scrolls away below that. Preview, Save, Cancel (or discard changes) should be next to the edit window, like in MediaWiki. (added this to the wiki page) BTW, in this moment I can only "discard changes" loosing all that is written, there is no way to go back to edit window. Workflow as it is now is really useless.
On the other hand anyone can change whole feature description changing completely what the feature is about. Again, Wikipedia has that solved with history for a very long time.
Maybe good old MediaWiki with few extensions should be considered as feature tracker.
An option as well - it just does not integrate with the way Novell works right now but if it benefits us so much then let's use the superior solution, Perhaps we need to step also back and discuss the whole process first more instead of deciding on tools,
I think so. Current tool is replica of Bugzilla that has only one advantage comments can be threaded, but at the same time more then one missing feature, like easy editing of entries, but also one "feature" - easy editing of description. We should rethink how to connect feature request with pages that will track progress on feature development. Currently openFATE is isolated island used to receive feature request, nothing else that will make life of potential contributors easier is there. One option is to use Sourceforge for project (feature) development, as they offer complete set of tools for that. The only missing component there is Build Sevice, but that can be linked too. In that case we need some frame on each site that will link to other relevant sites (pages, articles, rpms).
Thanks for the feedback, I'm reworking the page now a bit, hope this helps, Andreas
You are welcome and thanks for prompt response. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Satoru Matsumoto wrote:
Even if I have the right to change the status of features, I won't be able to move into action, if above things are not clear. And I think those procedure should be shared by each members of screening team (and probably each team leads) first.
Well, I've curiously flowcharted the procedure to clarify the flow. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/568187/openSUSE/openFATE/feature_handling_flow.odg Is this the same as you have in your mind? If not, please correct the flowchart. I hope this will help our understanding and further discussions. Best, -- _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto - openSUSE Member - Japan _/_/ _/_/ Marketing/Weekly News/openFATE Screening Team _/_/ _/_/ mail: helios_reds_at_gmx.net / irc: HeliosReds _/_/ _/_/ http://blog.zaq.ne.jp/opensuse/ _/_/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 24 September 2010 09:19:21 Andreas Jaeger wrote:
The boosters are working on enhancing openFATE so that the screening team can really work with openFATE and I have now added a proposal on what needs be done and added this to the wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening#What.27s_missing_to_make _the_screening_team_efficiently_work.3F
Is anything missing? Any changes needed?
One link that I stumbled upon when checking article about Smolt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolt_(Linux) is: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4474/ What I see on that page is what we need as process: 1) Idea sandbox >> Browse "Unconfirmed". 2) Popular ideas >> Top voted openSUSE 11.4 Features 3) Ideas in development >> Missing. Side note: It seems that they have the same problem as we do; ideas for the last year release :) History of the feature should be one item 4) Implemented ideas >> https://features.opensuse.org/query/run?search_string=&search_status[]=done&type=find&commit=Search Now search gives plain list that can't be browsed by feature topic or similar. Not everyone wants to see all features. Having ability to choose just one or few topics would increase usability few fold.
Andreas
-- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 30 September 2010 13:47:13 Satoru Matsumoto wrote:
Satoru Matsumoto wrote:
Even if I have the right to change the status of features, I won't be able to move into action, if above things are not clear. And I think those procedure should be shared by each members of screening team (and probably each team leads) first.
Well, I've curiously flowcharted the procedure to clarify the flow.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/568187/openSUSE/openFATE/feature_handling_flow.o dg
Is this the same as you have in your mind? If not, please correct the flowchart.
I hope this will help our understanding and further discussions.
Thanks, great idea! I've also updated the wiki page with more information. I would just rename the state "Eval by team lead" to "marketplace" and as such have changed the graph. Does this make sense now? Btw. I'm open to any other ideas on how to do this, my goal is to get something working easily ;) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Thursday 30 September 2010 06:22:30 Rajko M. wrote:
On Wednesday 29 September 2010 07:01:22 Andreas Jaeger wrote: ...
Exists as in I can add my self
But you cannot add others that you might think are interested.
Is this desirable? Some prank can add anyone to any feature.
It is the same with bugzilla at the moment. Everybody can do everything. I'd like to have openFATE as open as possible - but if this does not work, we have to change it.
* List of all features in state "Eval by team lead (TL)" (Marketplace/open for grab) with specific tags ...
Currently we do not have team leads for openSUSE, so I would rename the complete entry from "Evaluation by team lead" to something else.
We will have to create someone that is able and held responsible to make decision. I'm really tired to repeat that flat "structure" as it is now (we are all members except few that are board) will bring nothing, just as it did not bring anything in the past. There must be known member that will be called team lead for each and every team.
Exactly: So, the evaluatoin happens with the change from "New" to "Marketplace". My proposal is that for each tag, we have an expert (or team lead) that does the evaluation. So, for the tag "GNOME" it could be dimstar, for the tag "KDE" it might be Will etc. Does this make sense?
The proposal was "up for grab" or "marketplace" - and it can be taken by anybody not only students ;)
Students need projects to apply their knowledge, teachers need projects to give students assignments, the rest of the world can grab open features, but even that should be organized. In other words we want to know who works on some feature, what he/she/they did, how many bugs they have ahead, where they keep files, if there are subprojects their relation (dependencies), approximate time to accomplish, and probably more that I can't think of. (not a project manager)
How do we want to do this in the best way? I think that's an important process beyond the tool... I've seen in Maemo the rule that somebody can only signup for three tasks at a time to not overcommit himself. But what of these rules do we want to handle with tool support - and which - and which with written rules?
** Requirement: at least one tag set Where the "tag" is?
I guess we should define a couple of known tags that then others can search for in the second step.
When you start typing there will be drop down list. Looking at the content it appear to me that is not browser attempt to offer words that were previously used.
Yes, the browser offers the previously used ones. Still we might want to define a smaller subset for evaluation.
If that is top left keyword, then it needs some work. Now it is buggy. One has to write "kernel_driver" to get that added as a single tag, instead of plain language "kernel driver". It is intuitive to use comma as separator, just as it will appear after adding few keywords.
Yes, the top left keyword and let's write this one up as well. Adding with commas work.
I used this feature to test adding tags: https://features.opensuse.org/305080
Using comma in "runlevel, inittab" result in: "You entered an malformed url!" and only inittab is added.
"run level" results in added tags "run, level".
In other words it accepts space separated single words.
so, let's get this changed ;)
...
Where do we put improvements to user interface?
See the last part "Additionally the following convenience and usability improvements should be done:" - I split it now on the wiki page.
OK.
By now children know what is word "edit", but pencil icon is not so clear. I haven't seen that kind of edit command often used.
Editor itself is a bit on user unfriendly side. You can't see how formatting will look before adding a comment. Even, 10 years old Wikipedia that is not example of user friendly editing has Preview button.
Added.
Save on top of the screen, that is out of sight even in modestly commented features, is another "feature" that should be places right next to the edited part.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, could you rephrase this, please?
It is about save feature after some of entries are changed. I know that this is the case for adding the comment. Save feature is on the top of the screen. "This feature has unsaved changes! Please save when you are done." [Save feature] [Revert changes]
Now I see - could you add this to the wiki, please?
I just tested on https://features.opensuse.org/305929 that has enough comments. Page reloads and user can see warning that feature is not saved, but comment is few scrolls away below that. Preview, Save, Cancel (or discard changes) should be next to the edit window, like in MediaWiki. (added this to the wiki page)
BTW, in this moment I can only "discard changes" loosing all that is written, there is no way to go back to edit window. Workflow as it is now is really useless.
On the other hand anyone can change whole feature description changing completely what the feature is about. Again, Wikipedia has that solved with history for a very long time.
Maybe good old MediaWiki with few extensions should be considered as feature tracker.
An option as well - it just does not integrate with the way Novell works right now but if it benefits us so much then let's use the superior solution, Perhaps we need to step also back and discuss the whole process first more instead of deciding on tools,
I think so. Current tool is replica of Bugzilla that has only one advantage comments can be threaded, but at the same time more then one missing feature, like easy editing of entries, but also one "feature" - easy editing of description.
Extra feature is multi-product handling - not really needed for openSUSE as well as several evaluation steps and a handling of roles.
We should rethink how to connect feature request with pages that will track progress on feature development. Currently openFATE is isolated island used to receive feature request, nothing else that will make life of potential contributors easier is there.
One option is to use Sourceforge for project (feature) development, as they offer complete set of tools for that. The only missing component there is Build Sevice, but that can be linked too. In that case we need some frame on each site that will link to other relevant sites (pages, articles, rpms).
I prefer to have something more integrated and don't want to rely on sourceforge at all.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm reworking the page now a bit, hope this helps, Andreas
You are welcome and thanks for prompt response.
Sorry, it took me a bit longer this time ;) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 02 October 2010 18:11:07 Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 24 September 2010 09:19:21 Andreas Jaeger wrote:
The boosters are working on enhancing openFATE so that the screening team can really work with openFATE and I have now added a proposal on what needs be done and added this to the wiki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening#What.27s_missing_to _make _the_screening_team_efficiently_work.3F
Is anything missing? Any changes needed?
One link that I stumbled upon when checking article about Smolt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolt_(Linux) is:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4474/
What I see on that page is what we need as process:
1) Idea sandbox >> Browse "Unconfirmed".
2) Popular ideas >> Top voted openSUSE 11.4 Features
3) Ideas in development >> Missing.
I thought this was implemented but thanks to your hint, I checked and it's not - added to the list.
Side note: It seems that they have the same problem as we do; ideas for the last year release :) History of the feature should be one item
4) Implemented ideas >> https://features.opensuse.org/query/run?search_string=&search_status[]=d one&type=find&commit=Search
Now search gives plain list that can't be browsed by feature topic or similar. Not everyone wants to see all features. Having ability to choose just one or few topics would increase usability few fold.
Yes, agreed, that's why the "list" features contain " with specific tags". Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Rajko M. -
Satoru Matsumoto