[opensuse-factory] Re: Tumbleweed review of the week
I've been doing a lot of TW installs since the 12/14 update wiped out my desktop. I've developed the following observations: 1) When somebody downloads the DVD iso and burns it I don't understand why a network connection should be required to do the install 2) When installing the DVD there should be no indication one should add repositories. That just makes the install program download everything again over the network. The reason to download the DVD is to install on multiple machines without further bandwidth usage. If somebody wants to download everything every time they will choose the network install. 3) The current install program is certainly not elegant when requesting the wireless network connection and attempts to connect to a wired connection when none exists (i.e. there is no cable connected) if there is no wireless transmitter/receiver in the box. This could be avoided if #1 were rational. 4) The stage of "probing the hard drives" takes an inordinately long time to complete and makes one think the install has hung (my test box has 4 small SCSI drives but I still don't see why probing for hard drives takes so long) 5) Nouveau should not be provided until such time as it actually works with nVidia cards. If somebody knows enough and wants to destroy their desktop after the install by changing to Nouveau then they can be on their own but new users have no idea whether they want it or not -- take away the danger of making the wrong choice. Just my $.02. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/01/2019 20:46, Chuck Davis wrote:
1) When somebody downloads the DVD iso and burns it I don't understand why a network connection should be required to do the install
*Required*, no. *Optional* installation of updates, yes. For instance when updates are needed to get your hardware working properly. Cf. your own point about nVidia graphics.
2) When installing the DVD there should be no indication one should add repositories. That just makes the install program download everything again over the network.
(?)
The reason to download the DVD is to install on multiple machines without further bandwidth usage.
Hey, hang on. That may be *your* reason but it doesn't mean that it's everyone's reason.
If somebody wants to download everything every time they will choose the network install.
Not necessarily, no. What if they lack the knowledge/skills to hand-pick all the components? What if they don't want to bother and just want a pre-selected set to customise? I'm sure there are other possible reasons.
3) The current install program is certainly not elegant when requesting the wireless network connection and attempts to connect to a wired connection when none exists (i.e. there is no cable connected) if there is no wireless transmitter/receiver in the box. This could be avoided if #1 were rational.
Um. I am not sure but I think at least _trying_ the network is sensible. Sometimes on other distros, I choose update-while-installing because I want an as-current-as-possible system when I'm done. Sometimes I say "no updates" because it's a test run or something and I just want it installed as quickly as possible. IOW, it varies. One size doesn't fit all, even when "all" is 1 person.
4) The stage of "probing the hard drives" takes an inordinately long time to complete and makes one think the install has hung (my test box has 4 small SCSI drives but I still don't see why probing for hard drives takes so long)
I think that may be due to your machine, then. SCSI is unusual now. 4 drives is unusual now. The combination is, I suspect, very rare.
5) Nouveau should not be provided until such time as it actually works with nVidia cards.
Do you mean: "... with *all* nVidia cards"...? It works on every machine I've tried.
If somebody knows enough and wants to destroy their desktop after the install by changing to Nouveau
Other way round, surely. My work desktop is broken badly by installing the nVidia drivers in the repo. Directly-downloaded ones work. (Confirmed on both T'weed and Leap.) Nouveau works with either, but I wanted the acceleration. Again, this may just be you.
then they can be on their own but new users have no idea whether they want it or not -- take away the danger of making the wrong choice.
What's the alternative, then? oS is a free OS. It can't distribute the nVidia binary drivers, AIUI. So the only option is Nouveau. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 21.01.19 um 12:13 schrieb Liam Proven:
On 18/01/2019 20:46, Chuck Davis wrote
2) When installing the DVD there should be no indication one should add repositories. That just makes the install program download everything again over the network.
(?)
Try it. It looks like the default online oss repo has higher (or same) priority as the DVD "local" repo, and then almost everything, is downloaded, even if it is available on the DVD in the same version. I have seen this in the past, I just stopped downloading DVD images and always use network installation.
The reason to download the DVD is to install on multiple machines without further bandwidth usage.
Hey, hang on. That may be *your* reason but it doesn't mean that it's everyone's reason.
Well, but to download a 5GB DVD to just use it as a netinstall boot medium is possible, but probably not the best solution :-)
If somebody wants to download everything every time they will choose the network install.
Not necessarily, no. What if they lack the knowledge/skills to hand-pick all the components? What if they don't want to bother and just want a pre-selected set to customise? I'm sure there are other possible reasons.
The network install is the same feature-wise as the dvd install, no extra skills needed.
3) The current install program is certainly not elegant when requesting the wireless network connection and attempts to connect to a wired connection when none exists (i.e. there is no cable connected) if there is no wireless transmitter/receiver in the box. This could be avoided if #1 were rational.
Um. I am not sure but I think at least _trying_ the network is sensible.
If there is no cable connected, then it is not sensible ;-)
Sometimes on other distros, I choose update-while-installing because I want an as-current-as-possible system when I'm done.
But you sure want only the updates to be downloaded, and stuff that's on the medium to be installed from there, won't you? -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jan 21, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 21.01.19 um 12:13 schrieb Liam Proven:
On 18/01/2019 20:46, Chuck Davis wrote
2) When installing the DVD there should be no indication one should add repositories. That just makes the install program download everything again over the network.
(?)
Try it. It looks like the default online oss repo has higher (or same) priority as the DVD "local" repo, and then almost everything, is downloaded, even if it is available on the DVD in the same version.
I cannot find it anymore, but last week I did read somewhere in the zypper documentation, that packages from network are prefered over packages from DVD. Don't ask me why. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Distinguished Engineer, Senior Architect SLES & MicroOS SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 21/01/2019 14:24, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 21.01.19 um 12:13 schrieb Liam Proven:
Hey, hang on. That may be *your* reason but it doesn't mean that it's everyone's reason.
Well, but to download a 5GB DVD to just use it as a netinstall boot medium is possible, but probably not the best solution :-)
Well, for example, if I'm booting from a network boot server...?
The network install is the same feature-wise as the dvd install, no extra skills needed.
Ah, OK, conceded.
Um. I am not sure but I think at least _trying_ the network is sensible.
If there is no cable connected, then it is not sensible ;-)
It's one way to know if the network is available, no? E.g. I've used networks where Internet access is available, but only via a proxy. Others where there is a captive portal. Merely getting a link and an IP isn't proof.
Sometimes on other distros, I choose update-while-installing because I want an as-current-as-possible system when I'm done.
But you sure want only the updates to be downloaded, and stuff that's on the medium to be installed from there, won't you?
Well, yes, true. But surely not _all_ of Tumbleweed changes every week? -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Chuck Davis -
Liam Proven -
Stefan Seyfried -
Thorsten Kukuk