Liam Proven composed on 2018-02-28 12:05 (UTC+0100):

But before I can explain it, I have to understand it myself.

Thus the problem with software patch writers who don't provide accompanying documentation patches, or omit examples from any documentation they do provide. Wikis maintained only by users attempt to get something from nothing, or at best, too little. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 10:44:50 +0100 Werner Flamme wrote:

Am 28.02.2018 um 12:05 schrieb Liam Proven:

...

Because it isn't. I didn't know, and I have been working with SUSE and SUSE products since it was SuSE in 1996 or so.

Any you never noticed the founding of openSUSE?

Nope. As far as I was concerned, as an outsider no longer actively using SUSE at that time, after Novell bought SUSE, the entry-level product became free of charge and the server version became expensive. That's all. Later, the free version split into 2 branches: a rolling-release version and periodic stable snapshots. And you know what? I reckon that is what most of the rest of the Linux world believes, too. I am an expert in this stuff, writing about it professionally for more than 20 years now. I track the progress of dozens of distributions, regularly evaluate them in VMs, recommend them to people for different reasons and purposes. It's been a large part of my job since the 1990s. And no, I never suspected such a big change had happened. I didn't work much with SUSE until I came to work here. I didn't pay special attention to it, no more than I did to Red Hat or Mageia or OpenMandriva or Arch or Gentoo. And it doesn't say anything different on the website. So why should I think anything was different?

And it never occured to you, that "openSUSE C.d" may be a successor of "SUSE Professional A.b", but it is not a SUSE (company) product any more, but an openSUSE (community) "product"?

No. Why would I? It doesn't say that anywhere. I don't dig through mission statements and things. I don't care. I am not interested. I'm only interested in what it does and how much it costs, nothing else.

Wow. I didn't think this could happen.

I am as surprised as you are that you can't imagine this.

But I never thought that people might deduct "this is the same company" just by two websites using the same animal in the website logo. Hell, how big must this penguin company be, and what might be its real name?

Yes. 2 organisations with the same name and the same logo, using the same version numbers they have for 25 years, but with a word or 2 added to the product name... But no, they're not the same thing at all, they're made by different teams under different management. No, I would never suspect that. It sounds crazy. It wouldn't cross my mind. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 7:15 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 10:44:50 +0100 Werner Flamme wrote:

...

But I never thought that people might deduct "this is the same company" just by two websites using the same animal in the website logo. Hell, how big must this penguin company be, and what might be its real name?

Yes. 2 organisations with the same name and the same logo, using the same version numbers they have for 25 years, but with a word or 2 added to the product name... But no, they're not the same thing at all, they're made by different teams under different management.

No, I would never suspect that. It sounds crazy. It wouldn't cross my mind.

This is precisely why Fedora doesn't have hats in its logo, and doesn't have the Red Hat name in it. Only a vague association because a fedora is the type of hat worn by the shadowman. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 07:50:10 -0500 Neal Gompa wrote:

This is precisely why Fedora doesn't have hats in its logo, and doesn't have the Red Hat name in it. Only a vague association because a fedora is the type of hat worn by the shadowman.

It honestly makes sense...so many OSS companies offer a free "community version" and a paid "enterprise version", the primary difference being features and support. A few examples of software that I use that come to mind, that have setups like this: Nextcloud OPNSense nginx Zerotier XenServer Each of these are provided by the same company, just different offerings. If it's that big of a deal that people not be confused about the break between openSuSE and SuSE, then there needs to be a naming and logo differentiation, like with Fedora vs Red Hat. To me, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. openSuSE and SLES are both awesome, innovative products, with cool connections to each other. Just my $.02-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-03-02 15:03, Christopher Myers wrote:

...

From: Christopher Myers Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 7:59 AM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] openSUSE 101 - SUSE != openSUSE   Each of these are provided by the same company, just different offerings.

I worded that sentence poorly.

I'm not saying that all of those software pieces are provided by one parent company, but rather each of those pieces of software have both a community edition and an enterprise edition offered by their respective parent companies, the difference between them being feature set and support offerings.--

But the point we want to make is that openSUSE is not made by the company at all. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

Can you get off my lawn with your theoretical marketing discussions please? This is a development list. It was fun for a while, but this has gotten out of hand!

Henne

This isn't my battle, and I really don't care at all about it. I like openSuSE and I like SLES. The fact that they're apparently from separate organizations doesn't matter at all to me. But people are being kind of mean to each other about it, which isn't ok. If there really is this much ire caused by outsiders thinking that they're part of the same organization, then having the name and logo so similar seems extremely counter-intuitive, and getting all up in arms about it won't solve anything at all. Thinking from the perspective of a consumer, who doesn't know (or really even care about) the inner workings of such things -- Apple TV Apple Watch Apple iPhone Apple iPod Apple iPad Apple Macintosh If Apple split apart and moved their iDevices line into a wholly separate organization that didn't want to be considered a derivative of the Apple corporation, then the new organization would have to drop the "Apple" name and logo. Otherwise, someone would logically assume that an Apple iFridge with the same logo placed smack dab on the front was connected to the same Apple that makes the Apple Macintosh. It just makes sense, especially in today's copyright-litigous world. Cases in point: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/apple-sues-woolworths-ove_n_309450... https://creativepro.com/apple-sues-over-logo-again/ https://thelogocompany.net/blog/design-news/apple-sues-chinese-food-logo/ https://gizmodo.com/5059881/apple-sues-school-for-using-the-same-fruit-in-a-... If folks at openSuSE are so concerned that people know that they are separate from SuSE, and so aggravated that folks are getting confused about it, then they need to change the name and logo. Otherwise, they need to understand that people will be confused by the name and logo being so similar, and will draw the logical conclusion that the two are connected. If it's that big of a deal, change the logo and the name. Otherwise, it's so ridiculous that people are getting so up in arms about logical conclusions.-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 02 Mar 2018, 14:07:40 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

[...] If the organisation was to be independent and separate, keeping the name was a mistake, in my humble and entirely personal and non-corporate opinion. The same goes for the logo and the version numbering. :-(

Get over it... [t/m Eagles 1994] Cheers. l8er manfred