[opensuse-factory] Monitor frequences during installation
Hi, a very annoying "featuritis" thingy happens during installation since some SUSE generations now: The (automatically) chosen values for the monitor frequencies lead to "value out of range" very often. I see it regularly since 10.0 with a lot of LCD displays used through KVM switches. The general policy with LCD displays HAS TO be: "lowest frequencies" at recognized resolutions. I.e. 1024x768@60Hz or 1280x1024@60Hz for example. No higher frequencies during the installation phase please, or give the user a choice. Currently the only chance for a user in that situation is to use a lower resolution (I have learned to always use 800x600 to survive), but this affects readability in a bad manner. Totally unnecessary. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 08 September 2006 22:48, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
The general policy with LCD displays HAS TO be: "lowest frequencies" at recognized resolutions.
Er, I disagree. If it is possible to sense using the EDID system the "preferred" frequency of the attached panel, then that should be used. I believe that Xorg can correctly read these values. -- Bill Gallafent. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, William Gallafent wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 22:48, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
The general policy with LCD displays HAS TO be: "lowest frequencies" at recognized resolutions.
Er, I disagree. If it is possible to sense using the EDID system the "preferred" frequency of the attached panel, then that should be used. I believe that Xorg can correctly read these values.
During the installation phase, only those facts are valid which happen to the user, not those stated in papers. If I would not use those tricks with F3 (i.e. telling lies about the resolution), i would have seen hundreds of black screens without any way around it the last year. This is annoying, and only a consequence of a wrong method by SUSE. This is a major bug DURING installation, when the user is totally helpless. After installation one can correct it with sax2, but only if one has a chance to reach the state after installation... Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:03, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
During the installation phase, only those facts are valid which happen to the user, not those stated in papers.
Sure. The fact is, though, that if a reasonable EDID resolution / refresh is found, then it should be used. That's what the monitor manufacturers put these data in their monitors for! I've also experienced many problems with SaX over the years, and until very recently have generally had to resort to manual intervention to get things working the way I wanted. Problems have often included SaX2 picking very high (technically within specification, but in practice right on the limit) refresh rates, particularly with CRT monitors, either using the parameters from its database or read down the wire from the monitor.
If I would not use those tricks with F3 (i.e. telling lies about the resolution), i would have seen hundreds of black screens without any way around it the last year.
Hmm, I certainly experienced some completely non-working graphics with older versions, but 10.0 and 10.1 have both worked well here (10.1 better than 10.0). Also, I'm surprised you're getting stranded without an escape route (apart from console hacking) - see below.
This is annoying, and only a consequence of a wrong method by SUSE.
I agree: although in my experience Xorg is very good at determining correct settings for attached screens, SaX2 does not seem to be nearly as reliable, for me at least. That was certainly the case until 10.1: 10.1 worked well on this machine, which had defeated SaX2 in several previous versions (nVIDIA GeForce card with two DVI outputs, running dual head), but which worked fine if you just let Xorg pick the resolutions and refresh rates according to the data it gets directly from the screen. I don't know how SaX2 works, but I believe it uses a database of screens, cards etc. Perhaps it should shift to using the resolution and refresh rate data which is read from the monitor as the most-trusted information, favouring it over the numbers in its database, when the machine-readable information is available (apologies to SaX2 developers if it does already!)
This is a major bug DURING installation, when the user is totally helpless. After installation one can correct it with sax2, but only if one has a chance to reach the state after installation...
Yes. I think the problem occurs not when SaX2 is unable to determine ideal settings - in that situation it tends to default to sensible baseline IIRC - but when it _thinks_ it's got the ideal settings for the system, but in fact they are out of range. That's just a bug in SaX2, either due to incorrect information in its database, incorrect information reported by the hardware, or incorrect interpretation of that reported information. Isn't it the case, though, that after setting the graphics card and screen parameters, you can test them out: there's a countdown dialogue which you have to press "OK" on to confirm the settings work for you? If you don't press it then you go back to the standard installer display settings (which must have been working for you to get this far!) In this way you can adjust the settings until they work, without being stranded at a blank screen or terminal. This seems sensible, and I think it's how I remember it working in the past. -- Bill Gallafent. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, William Gallafent wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:03, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
During the installation phase, only those facts are valid which happen to the user, not those stated in papers.
Sure. The fact is, though, that if a reasonable EDID resolution / refresh is found, then it should be used. That's what the monitor manufacturers put these data in their monitors for!
I've also experienced many problems with SaX over the years, and until very recently have generally had to resort to manual intervention to get things working the way I wanted. Problems have often included SaX2 picking very high (technically within specification, but in practice right on the limit) refresh rates, particularly with CRT monitors, either using the parameters from its database or read down the wire from the monitor.
If I would not use those tricks with F3 (i.e. telling lies about the resolution), i would have seen hundreds of black screens without any way around it the last year.
Hmm, I certainly experienced some completely non-working graphics with older versions, but 10.0 and 10.1 have both worked well here (10.1 better than 10.0). Also, I'm surprised you're getting stranded without an escape route (apart from console hacking) - see below.
This is annoying, and only a consequence of a wrong method by SUSE.
I agree: although in my experience Xorg is very good at determining correct settings for attached screens, SaX2 does not seem to be nearly as reliable, for me at least.
That was certainly the case until 10.1: 10.1 worked well on this machine, which had defeated SaX2 in several previous versions (nVIDIA GeForce card with two DVI outputs, running dual head), but which worked fine if you just let Xorg pick the resolutions and refresh rates according to the data it gets directly from the screen.
I don't know how SaX2 works, but I believe it uses a database of screens, cards etc. Perhaps it should shift to using the resolution and refresh rate data which is read from the monitor as the most-trusted information, favouring it over the numbers in its database, when the machine-readable information is available (apologies to SaX2 developers if it does already!)
This is a major bug DURING installation, when the user is totally helpless. After installation one can correct it with sax2, but only if one has a chance to reach the state after installation...
Yes. I think the problem occurs not when SaX2 is unable to determine ideal settings - in that situation it tends to default to sensible baseline IIRC - but when it _thinks_ it's got the ideal settings for the system, but in fact they are out of range. That's just a bug in SaX2, either due to incorrect information in its database, incorrect information reported by the hardware, or incorrect interpretation of that reported information.
Isn't it the case, though, that after setting the graphics card and screen parameters, you can test them out: there's a countdown dialogue which you have to press "OK" on to confirm the settings work for you? If you don't press it then you go back to the standard installer display settings (which must have been working for you to get this far!) In this way you can adjust the settings until they work, without being stranded at a blank screen or terminal. This seems sensible, and I think it's how I remember it working in the past.
Please stop falsifying this thread. AFTER installation is totally different from DURING installation. Getting confronted with too high frequencies at the right resolution during installation is a 100% show stopper if you don't know some dirty tricks. This has to get fixed! It is NOT OK currently! Maybe some of us can't accept it as a bug, but then they have to accept it as a SUSE specific stupidity (believing "facts" or similar). Please, please someone with the same experience may call "me too" here now, before I loose my patience in the well-known way... Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Op zaterdag 9 september 2006 00:32, schreef Eberhard Moenkeberg:
Hi,
On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, William Gallafent wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:03, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
During the installation phase, only those facts are valid which happen to the user, not those stated in papers.
Sure. The fact is, though, that if a reasonable EDID resolution / refresh is found, then it should be used. That's what the monitor manufacturers put these data in their monitors for!
I've also experienced many problems with SaX over the years, and until very recently have generally had to resort to manual intervention to get things working the way I wanted. Problems have often included SaX2 picking very high (technically within specification, but in practice right on the limit) refresh rates, particularly with CRT monitors, either using the parameters from its database or read down the wire from the monitor.
If I would not use those tricks with F3 (i.e. telling lies about the resolution), i would have seen hundreds of black screens without any way around it the last year.
Hmm, I certainly experienced some completely non-working graphics with older versions, but 10.0 and 10.1 have both worked well here (10.1 better than 10.0). Also, I'm surprised you're getting stranded without an escape route (apart from console hacking) - see below.
This is annoying, and only a consequence of a wrong method by SUSE.
I agree: although in my experience Xorg is very good at determining correct settings for attached screens, SaX2 does not seem to be nearly as reliable, for me at least.
That was certainly the case until 10.1: 10.1 worked well on this machine, which had defeated SaX2 in several previous versions (nVIDIA GeForce card with two DVI outputs, running dual head), but which worked fine if you just let Xorg pick the resolutions and refresh rates according to the data it gets directly from the screen.
I don't know how SaX2 works, but I believe it uses a database of screens, cards etc. Perhaps it should shift to using the resolution and refresh rate data which is read from the monitor as the most-trusted information, favouring it over the numbers in its database, when the machine-readable information is available (apologies to SaX2 developers if it does already!)
This is a major bug DURING installation, when the user is totally helpless. After installation one can correct it with sax2, but only if one has a chance to reach the state after installation...
Yes. I think the problem occurs not when SaX2 is unable to determine ideal settings - in that situation it tends to default to sensible baseline IIRC - but when it _thinks_ it's got the ideal settings for the system, but in fact they are out of range. That's just a bug in SaX2, either due to incorrect information in its database, incorrect information reported by the hardware, or incorrect interpretation of that reported information.
Isn't it the case, though, that after setting the graphics card and screen parameters, you can test them out: there's a countdown dialogue which you have to press "OK" on to confirm the settings work for you? If you don't press it then you go back to the standard installer display settings (which must have been working for you to get this far!) In this way you can adjust the settings until they work, without being stranded at a blank screen or terminal. This seems sensible, and I think it's how I remember it working in the past.
Please stop falsifying this thread.
AFTER installation is totally different from DURING installation.
Getting confronted with too high frequencies at the right resolution during installation is a 100% show stopper if you don't know some dirty tricks. This has to get fixed!
It is NOT OK currently!
Maybe some of us can't accept it as a bug, but then they have to accept it as a SUSE specific stupidity (believing "facts" or similar).
Please, please someone with the same experience may call "me too" here now, before I loose my patience in the well-known way...
Cheers -e
May I say that I get also the Max resolution and that controlling setup with that is not so easy.. It is almost double the resolution that is recommend for my monitor (omg, my oldie still goes at 1024 :P ). But I don't get the out of range error anymore. I had it in SL 10.0 beta 4/5 and reported some logs for that. Maybe it is something similar. But I really have bo idea what to do about it then have a big database with proper resolutions and that is not something I want on the valueable diskspace from installation. So that idea is out of my head. Azerion --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, Azerion wrote:
Op zaterdag 9 september 2006 00:32, schreef Eberhard Moenkeberg:
AFTER installation is totally different from DURING installation.
Getting confronted with too high frequencies at the right resolution during installation is a 100% show stopper if you don't know some dirty tricks. This has to get fixed!
It is NOT OK currently!
Maybe some of us can't accept it as a bug, but then they have to accept it as a SUSE specific stupidity (believing "facts" or similar).
Please, please someone with the same experience may call "me too" here now, before I loose my patience in the well-known way...
May I say that I get also the Max resolution and that controlling setup with that is not so easy.. It is almost double the resolution that is recommend for my monitor (omg, my oldie still goes at 1024 :P ). But I don't get the out of range error anymore. I had it in SL 10.0 beta 4/5 and reported some logs for that. Maybe it is something similar.
The main (unresolvable for joe user!) problem is DURING installation. Without a safe set at this point, joe user will not reach the state "after installation".
But I really have bo idea what to do about it then have a big database with proper resolutions and that is not something I want on the valueable diskspace from installation. So that idea is out of my head.
It would be a very small set of "secure" frequencies if ever: only the lowest out of sax2's selections. Or a new choice "monitor frequency" (simply an additional F key). Or a very simple default: never above 60 Hz vertical. I have several fellows here at the GWDG data center which come on telling me "impossible to install - screen not blue, but black". This is a pure SUSE neglegence, and it HAS TO get fixed with 10.2 finally. A very easy task - but it needs some core team member having the problem by himself, it seems. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, Azerion wrote:
Op zaterdag 9 september 2006 00:32, schreef Eberhard Moenkeberg:
AFTER installation is totally different from DURING installation.
Getting confronted with too high frequencies at the right resolution during installation is a 100% show stopper if you don't know some dirty tricks. This has to get fixed!
It is NOT OK currently!
Maybe some of us can't accept it as a bug, but then they have to accept it as a SUSE specific stupidity (believing "facts" or similar).
Please, please someone with the same experience may call "me too" here now, before I loose my patience in the well-known way...
May I say that I get also the Max resolution and that controlling setup with that is not so easy.. It is almost double the resolution that is recommend for my monitor (omg, my oldie still goes at 1024 :P ). But I don't get the out of range error anymore. I had it in SL 10.0 beta 4/5 and reported some logs for that. Maybe it is something similar.
The main (unresolvable for joe user!) problem is DURING installation. Without a safe set at this point, joe user will not reach the state "after installation".
But I really have bo idea what to do about it then have a big database with proper resolutions and that is not something I want on the valueable diskspace from installation. So that idea is out of my head.
It would be a very small set of "secure" frequencies if ever: only the lowest out of sax2's selections. Or a new choice "monitor frequency" (simply an additional F key). Or a very simple default: never above 60 Hz vertical.
I have several fellows here at the GWDG data center which come on telling me "impossible to install - screen not blue, but black".
This is a pure SUSE neglegence, and it HAS TO get fixed with 10.2 finally. A very easy task - but it needs some core team member having the problem by himself, it seems.
I made it a bug against SLES10, but it applies to SUSE-1x and SLED10 too. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=204704 Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote: ...
Please, please someone with the same experience may call "me too" here now, before I loose my patience in the well-known way...
Me too. Now I can explain ... It is standard procedure to manually set installation screen option, to 1024x768 or lower, otherwise it will be used 1280x1024 VESA, that gives small and blurred letters, uses more memory than necessary, CPU power, etc. Resolution of installed system is based on one used during installation and that gives: press Ctrl-Alt-(Plus on keypad) and cycle trough preset resolutions to find one that displays something, or go to text mode put lower resolution first in the list (xorg.conf) and restart X. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi. On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Rajko M wrote:
Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
...
Please, please someone with the same experience may call "me too" here now, before I loose my patience in the well-known way...
Me too.
many thanks. Now I can go asleep and look tomorror how it continued...
Now I can explain ...
It is standard procedure to manually set installation screen option, to 1024x768 or lower, otherwise it will be used 1280x1024 VESA, that gives small and blurred letters, uses more memory than necessary, CPU power, etc.
We simply would need an additional "frequency" choice there to get things right, with a LOW default (not HIGH, which is an idiotic setting currently, but an unchangeble fact for us - the idiot is behind the SUSE walls, and I pray for him once his fellows see this flaw).
Resolution of installed system is based on one used during installation and that gives: press Ctrl-Alt-(Plus on keypad) and cycle trough preset resolutions to find one that displays something, or go to text mode put lower resolution first in the list (xorg.conf) and restart X.
Regardless what has got configured, "sax2 -l" gives a low resolution environment to fix these things. Yes, yes, it is totally resolvable AFTER installation, but it is a total blocker DURING installation if the user is not familiar enough with special tricks. "SUSE does make it black, not blue" - a terrible vision/comparision. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Lørdag 09 september 2006 00:32 skrev Eberhard Moenkeberg:
Please, please someone with the same experience may call "me too" here now, before I loose my patience in the well-known way...
I know my father had a similar (possibly the same) problem with 10.0. Unless he manually changes the default resolution at beginning of installation the screen will black out. He's using some cheap 17" TFT monitor with vga. He hasn't built up the guts to upgrade his desktop machine to 10.1 so I can't say if the problem persists there. I also have a very strange problem with monitor during install - but not the same. On my Compaq Armada E500 laptop - SUSE installation defaults to 800x600. I'll have a very strange problem _after_ installation, where the picture is not in the center of the screen, that means the top maybe 200 pixels are at the bottom of the screen physically - so I get kind of a split screen. I can't seem to fix this - I've tried inserting a working xorg.conf from an other installation - and I've tried changing the position of the picture with sax2. No difference. However if I manually change the resolution to 1024x768 (the max. for the monitor), at the beginning of installation there's no problem at all. That's how I get an xorg.conf that I know work. This problem is the same on 9.3, 10.0 and 10.1. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
AFTER installation is totally different from DURING installation.
Getting confronted with too high frequencies at the right resolution during installation is a 100% show stopper if you don't know some dirty tricks. This has to get fixed! "Me too": https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=163610 (WONTFIX)
I had also manually to reduce the resolution for the installation. The problem in my case is that for the installation the information of the video BIOS is used (which is wrong); Xorg uses the chipset driver (which gets it right). I don't know how this can be solved properly, Tobias --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:32, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, William Gallafent wrote: [snip]
Isn't it the case, though, that after setting the graphics card and screen parameters, you can test them out: there's a countdown dialogue which you have to press "OK" on to confirm the settings work for you? If you don't press it then you go back to the standard installer display settings (which must have been working for you to get this far!) In this way you can adjust the settings until they work, without being stranded at a blank screen or terminal. This seems sensible, and I think it's how I remember it working in the past.
Please stop falsifying this thread.
AFTER installation is totally different from DURING installation.
The paragraph above _is_ referring to the procedure during installation.
Getting confronted with too high frequencies at the right resolution during installation is a 100% show stopper if you don't know some dirty tricks.
It would be a show-stopper if the installer didn't let you test out the settings before proceeding. I'm _sure_ I remember this happening during installation for me in the past during installation: Default settings appear -> press "test" -> if doesn't work -> repeat until it does work. -> carry on. If I'm wrong about that, then apologies, but I don't think I'm making it up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, William Gallafent wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:32, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, William Gallafent wrote:
[snip]
Isn't it the case, though, that after setting the graphics card and screen parameters, you can test them out: there's a countdown dialogue which you have to press "OK" on to confirm the settings work for you? If you don't press it then you go back to the standard installer display settings (which must have been working for you to get this far!) In this way you can adjust the settings until they work, without being stranded at a blank screen or terminal. This seems sensible, and I think it's how I remember it working in the past.
Please stop falsifying this thread.
AFTER installation is totally different from DURING installation.
The paragraph above _is_ referring to the procedure during installation.
OK, it also is during, but far later. My focus is the very first "switch to graphical mode", the very first YaST window.
Getting confronted with too high frequencies at the right resolution during installation is a 100% show stopper if you don't know some dirty tricks.
It would be a show-stopper if the installer didn't let you test out the settings before proceeding. I'm _sure_ I remember this happening during installation for me in the past during installation:
Default settings appear -> press "test" -> if doesn't work -> repeat until it does work. -> carry on.
If I'm wrong about that, then apologies, but I don't think I'm making it up.
At beginning of installation, there is no choice or test. Just a black screen, no way around without dirty tricks. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 11 September 2006 12:08, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
My focus is the very first "switch to graphical mode", the very first YaST window.
At beginning of installation, there is no choice or test. Just a black screen, no way around without dirty tricks.
Yes, indeed! I hadn't realised that this is where you were hitting the problem - sorry to misunderstand. I haven't experienced this in recent years, but agree that a conservatively timed (i.e. 60Hz I suppose) VESA standard mode should be used here, matching the resolution chosen at the boot screen. (Can't remember what the choices are here - 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, from memory). --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
My focus is the very first "switch to graphical mode", the very first YaST window.
So it works for you before YaST? That would indeed be strange. Steffen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Steffen Winterfeldt wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
My focus is the very first "switch to graphical mode", the very first YaST window.
So it works for you before YaST? That would indeed be strange.
I see the boot menu and can use F2 (or F3) to select 800x600 instead the "right" 1280x1024. If I dont "falsify" the resolution there, it runs into "out of range" display and black screen. Best would be to add an F key for "frequency". Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa So 9. September 2006 00:03 Eberhard Moenkeberg napísal:
Hi,
On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, William Gallafent wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 22:48, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
The general policy with LCD displays HAS TO be: "lowest frequencies" at recognized resolutions.
Er, I disagree. If it is possible to sense using the EDID system the "preferred" frequency of the attached panel, then that should be used. I believe that Xorg can correctly read these values.
During the installation phase, only those facts are valid which happen to the user, not those stated in papers.
If I would not use those tricks with F3 (i.e. telling lies about the resolution), i would have seen hundreds of black screens without any way around it the last year. This is annoying, and only a consequence of a wrong method by SUSE.
This is a major bug DURING installation, when the user is totally helpless. After installation one can correct it with sax2, but only if one has a chance to reach the state after installation...
Just to make clear: during the installation, SaX2 is not used. The installation X server uses framebuffer, thus it takes over the frequency and resolution from the kernel. The kernel mode is set up by linuxrc, or even before that. Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 8. September 2006 23:52 schrieb William Gallafent:
On Friday 08 September 2006 22:48, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
The general policy with LCD displays HAS TO be: "lowest frequencies" at recognized resolutions.
Er, I disagree. If it is possible to sense using the EDID system the "preferred" frequency of the attached panel, then that should be used. I believe that Xorg can correctly read these values. That's not safe. I have a LCD display, which EDID reports a broken timing for its native resolution.
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On Saturday 09 September 2006 03:53, Markus Koßmann wrote:
Am Freitag, 8. September 2006 23:52 schrieb William Gallafent:
Er, I disagree. If it is possible to sense using the EDID system the "preferred" frequency of the attached panel, then that should be used. I believe that Xorg can correctly read these values.
That's not safe. I have a LCD display, which EDID reports a broken timing for its native resolution.
Hmm, unfortunate. One can truthfully say "It's a hardware problem", at least. ;) I still maintain that the settings sensed from the hardware should be used initially if they are available, since they're likely to be appropriate. This will often (but not always) give a good result without intervention. It should certainly be the _default_, however, that the countdown-timer "click if you can see this message" display should appear before the installation is allowed to proceed further. I think that at the moment you are only given the _option_ to test the settings, which is not enough. So, enforcing the "click if OK" (and returning to the configuration page after ten seconds with a "Those graphics settings didn't work: try fiddling with them" message if there is no click on the button) would certainly be an improvement. That way, you are never left with a black screen, always returning to the graphics config screen until you have some settings which work. I assume I got in to the standard procedure of checking the settings before proceeding myself, so haven't been caught out for years by the fact that this doesn't happen automatically. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Azerion -
Eberhard Moenkeberg -
Markus Koßmann -
Martin Schlander -
Rajko M -
Stanislav Visnovsky -
Steffen Winterfeldt -
Tobias Burnus -
William Gallafent