[opensuse-factory] 11.5 vs. 12.0
03/07/2011 jdd wrote: Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future. Okay, let us think of the future..... After the whole discussion about the 11.4 vs 12.0 topic in the end of the development cycle for the done release, I think it´s better to talk on it now and make clear which goals we want achieve with the successor of 11.4. I don´t want to call it 11.5 or 12.0, just the "successor" till the version number is clear. For this, I have two ideas here: Eight months after the 11.4 release, we´ve got November 2011. So, the release maybe can be called *12*, because 2011 is a linux celebration year (1991-2011, twenty years). If we use this tactic, we have to release it on the 17th September, because Linux 0.01 was released on the same date. Or we say, 11.5 is the logical, evolutionaly and not revolutionary successor of 11.0, 11.1, 11.2, 11.3 and 11.4 so it called *11.5* So far with the version game for marketing: What´s the technology way we want do for the 11.4 successor? Maybe.... * improvement of the LibreOffice integration * stable version of Firefox into the standard DVD/live CDs * KDE 4.x and GNOME 2.x _and_ GNOME 3.x * Unity? * Linux 2.6.xx so far, I know some people are very busy with the 11.4 release, and for them, I beg you to keep this thread in mind for the time *after* the 11.4 release, but if you can answer, if you have the time, do it now! thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 07.03.2011 20:01, schrieb Hans-Peter Holler:
When the 11.5 was already there, why the discussion on 11.4 or 12.0 before the 11.4 release? thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 7. März 2011 schrieb Hans-Peter Holler:
We made the decision that factory is 11.4++ and used the simplest algebra possible. That doesn't mean we can't rename the repo. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:28 AM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
We made the decision that factory is 11.4++ and used the simplest algebra possible. That doesn't mean we can't rename the repo.
Well, when is SLES/SLED planning to be updated? Usually, that would be with 12.1. So, if that is something that would be done sometime soon, then I could see the next release being 12.0. IIRC, .4 was the highest S.u.S.E. release. v6.4 & v4.4.1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE_Linux_distributions#Versions -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Larry Stotler <larrystotler@gmail.com> wrote:
I think SuSE 7.0 introduced a major feature back then, the graphical installer ;)
-- nelson marques nmo.marques@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 11:19:21PM +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
I think SuSE 7.0 introduced a major feature back then, the graphical installer ;)
No, that was added with 6.3 already. -- Bye, Stephan Barth Novell Technical Services, Worldwide Support Services Linux SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuremberg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Onsdag den 9. marts 2011 00:02:52 skrev Larry Stotler:
It's the intention to move away from meaningless version numbers dictated by marketing - and instead have meaningful version numbers that say something about the release. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Martin Schlander <martin.schlander@gmail.com> wrote:
We have time... is it possible to run a LimeSurvey somewhere in the infra-structure and run a small questionnaire through the community to get an idea of what people think? Maybe we can use a bit of feedback from our users (maybe a pool, like the one used for the board, though it's less flexible)... approaching user perceptions on this field could actually leads us to the right place... I know this sound a bit like 'marketing talk' when people seem to be walking from it, but it could be enlightening and point us a way... NM
-- Nelson Marques /* As cicatrizes lembram-nos de onde estivemos, mas não ditam para onde vamos */ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday, March 09, 2011 00:02:52 Larry Stotler wrote:
The SLE release has no significance on openSUSE naming anymore. No need for that, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Larry Stotler wrote:
Well, when is SLES/SLED planning to be updated?
I would not expect the next major version of SUSE Linux Enterprise Server to enter Beta in the next two years.
That would make openSUSE reach 11.6 at a minimum according to your proposal. :-) Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer <gp@novell.com> Director Product Management, SUSE Linux Enterprise, openSUSE, Appliances -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:06:20 +0200 (CEST) Gerald Pfeifer <gp@novell.com> wrote:
May I quote you on this? -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
As long as you don't end up adding another f to my last name as tend like to do for whatever reason ;-) And http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2011-03/msg00785.html has it archived anyway. Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer <gp@novell.com> Director Product Management, SUSE Linux Enterprise, openSUSE, Appliances -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/07 19:37 (GMT+0100) Kim Leyendecker composed:
What´s the technology way we want do for the 11.4 successor?
I prefer no direct connection to anything but year of _release_, similar to what Mandriva does. That would make November's 11.5, the following just 12, next after that in early 2013 just 13, but the following release 8 months later also in 2013, 13+ or 13Plus, and the next in 2014 just 14. This scenario would allow alterations of release period anywhere from 6 months up without any need to change the naming system again before another new century begins. -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 07.03.2011 20:03, schrieb Felix Miata:
-- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/07 20:06 (GMT+0100) Kim Leyendecker composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
any need to change the naming system again before another new century begins.
but the major.minor scheme rests for ever..... (remember 10483.4 is possible....)
I don't understand this response. -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 07.03.2011 20:40, schrieb Felix Miata:
thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/07 20:42 (GMT+0100) Kim Leyendecker composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2011/03/07 20:06 (GMT+0100) Kim Leyendecker composed:
but the major.minor scheme rests for ever..... (remember 10483.4 is possible....)
I don't understand this response.
In my proposal there is no . minor after 11.5 GA. In computing the dots in versions are confusing to mere mortal users, looking like decimals, where .10 is considerably smaller, which alludes to older, than .9. I expect by next century the whole paradigm of any open source personal computer Linux OS will have been subsumed or displaced by some as yet unknown technology, or at the least a rolling release system akin to what Evergreen or Tumbleweed are trying to be now. -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, March 07, 2011 07:37:02 PM Kim Leyendecker wrote:
03/07/2011 jdd wrote:
Now that 11.4 is done and nearly out, we can think of the future.
let's get 11.4 out first instead of starting endless discussions, please! If you have time, help the marketing team get everything ready for Thursday! Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Kim Leyendecker <kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
Hi, I have really no position, whatever you guys decide, I know it's the best choice, that's one of the reasons why I've used SuSE Linux and laters, because I trusted people's expertise to make such calls :) About Unity, most of the pieces of the puzzle will be available for the next cycle, at least I know that: * GNOME 3 gnome-session supports the required session management (it's also working for GNOME2 with a backport); * Compiz 0.9.4 should be available (or later) with the required features (I'm using it with .ini backend as Vincent suggested, and it seems to work, thought for Unity we can ditch all the wrappers); * Unity so far (excluding the indicators stack) doesn't require additional patches, but still relies on very strang software (ex: glewMX for grabbing openGL extensions, and I really don't trust it and upstream kind ignored Adam calls up to today with a very required patch). So it should be possible. The current status of Unity is: - Exploding with gdk-pixbuf calls (already solved one missing symbol issue); - The init sub-system through gnome-session is found working with GNOME2 and should work with GNOME3 without trouble. It's really a matter of time until it pops. Additionally once this release cycle and GNOME3 tasks give people a bit more of time (for package reviews), we can take a closer look. If nothing strange happens we should be be able to provide Unity without major issues (without the indicator stack, and in the case we want to provide the indicator stack and the fancy OSX application menu's, that means having a few patches that weren't upstreamed). Though I've hammered a lot of software, I totally agree with Vincent as remaining as faithful as possible to upstream to avoid maintenance nightmares. Lets wait for compiz official release and integration and then Unity should be happening soon after. NM
-- nelson marques nmo.marques@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le lundi 07 mars 2011, à 19:37 +0100, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
I don't think the GNOME team has planned to have both GNOME versions. If that's something people want to see happen, please show up at the GNOME team meetings or on opensuse-gnome :-) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Vincent Untz <vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
I know the 'manpower' point of view, and against that there are no arguments. On the other side, considering that many people are throwing knifes at the alternative panels of G3 and stuff... I don't know if it wouldn't be wise to keep old GNOME for a couple of few loyalists. I know it reduces the impact of GNOME3, but on the other hand, might keep a sane alternative against migrations to LXDE and friends (maybe looking at Fedora planet once in a while will help a bit realize the mobilization for this DE's). Just a thought... nevertheless I'm staying out of such decisions and processes, too political for my taste. NM
-- Nelson Marques /* As cicatrizes lembram-nos de onde estivemos, mas não ditam para onde vamos */ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 11 mars 2011, à 14:48 +0000, Nelson Marques a écrit :
gnome-panel is still available in GNOME 3 :-) So we can still build a GNOME 2-like interface with GNOME 3 if we want. Some things will be different, but I'm pretty sure those wouldn't be that much of a big deal to most people. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Vincent Untz <vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
Vincent, I haven't run GNOME3 with 'nomodeset' to check it out, but there's a lot of people bullying GNOME3 in Fedora... The panels were one of the reasons invoked, so that's why I mentioned it... so we don't have to go through the same. Well, from my tiny experience with GNOME Shell and GNOME3, I do see some potential on it, and by not making G2 available we might push people to be spend more time with shell, I would suppose that would also increase the number of converts to G3/Gnome-shell. Which honestly is a very good thing. Take a look at the Fedora Planet for some insight. If you want I can compile a small set of links. NM
-- Nelson Marques /* As cicatrizes lembram-nos de onde estivemos, mas não ditam para onde vamos */ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 11 mars 2011, à 15:13 +0000, Nelson Marques a écrit :
Are you interested in having GNOME 2 available, or having a user experience similar to the GNOME 2 one? The latter is not that hard with GNOME 3, that's my point :-) The former needs manpower, obviously, but could be doable -- we just need to discuss this option very early. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 11.03.2011 16:43, schrieb Vincent Untz:
Kim -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Kim Leyendecker <kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
KDE3 is now a community project for openSUSE. There's also the Trinity project, but we aren't packaging their stuff yet from what I have seen. There's a slight issue with the KDE Control Center that Ilya Chernykh is trying to sort out(it doesn't show anything - looks to be an icon install issue from what I see on the KDE3 list). I'm still running 11.0 on most of my stuff, but plan to try out 11.4/KDE3 as soon as I get the time. Not having SaX2 is a big deal breaker for my desktop since I have a 19" CRT at 1024x768 and a 22" LCD at 1920x1080. I can't get it config'd properly past 11.2 with XCimeria like I have it now.(I may have to try installing an older version of SaX2 at some point). I'm running circa 2007/2008 hardware(desktop - laptop is older), and get Firefox from the SLED 11 mozilla repo, so I have no real need to upgrade anytime soon. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 11.03.2011 18:44, schrieb Larry Stotler:
My point of view about GNOME 3 is, that we better ship 2.x with new releases till GNOME 3 is so stable, that "normal" and "productive" using is possible. thanks kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 March 2011 20:44:25 Larry Stotler wrote:
I have just upgraded from 11.3 to 11.4 and cannot rproduce that issue with icon module in kcontrol. :-/ Although multiple people reported it already. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 11 mars 2011, à 17:03 +0100, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
I think GNOME 2.x will be in SLE for a while. Maybe we can use this bugfixes if we need them?
SLE doesn't have the latest GNOME 2.x, so it'd be hard to share fixes, I think. But I'll again point out that it's possible to make GNOME 3 feel like GNOME 2 -- ie, to not use GNOME Shell. The fallback mode of GNOME 3 is extremely similar to GNOME 2, with most of the same code. Also, the next version of openSUSE will use GNOME 3.2, not 3.0, which will accumulate many improvements over 3.0. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 11.03.2011 19:47, schrieb Vincent Untz:
By the way, I think we´ve got a large community. Maybe there is somebody with a SUSE Studio account who says: "Yeah, I don´t like GNOME 3, I don´t wanna hear something about GNOME 3, KDE is stupid and GNOME 2.x rocks my PC and rules." This person will create an appliance in Studio that based on 11.4 or 11.5 with GNOME 2 instead of GNOME 3 or KDE4. So we just need to work a little bit on this appliance and publish it as a community version so we have GNOME 2 already with the 11.4 successor. The bad and difficuilt thing about this solution is support. In the end I have to say, that I think nobody will stop you when you want to package and maintain GNOME 2.x if you have fun with it. So everybody who wants, just go for it and contribute to the GNOME team.
Also, the next version of openSUSE will use GNOME 3.2, not 3.0, which will accumulate many improvements over 3.0.
Hm, I don´t know how long it takes till GNOME 3 will be stable (look @KDE4). When GNOME 3.2 is rocking solid, Nobody will scream for GNOME 2.x :) thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 11. März 2011, 15:58:21 schrieb Vincent Untz:
Who cares about gnome anyway ;-) My experiences from KDE awere that it's good to keep support for the old stable tree in parallel for at least one version. The K Desktop (a really great product broken by an over-ambitious major release) is now in its 4.6 and it's slowly coming back to a stage where I would recommend it to grandparents and other casual users. This Gnome3 thing seems to be a big step for the little gnomies, so I think it's wise to let them choose if they want to make this step this time or next time. Are we sure we want this discussion on two lists? -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 11.03.2011 16:19, schrieb Ralf Lang:
thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador http://www.suseusers.de.vu powered by openSUSE 11.4 RC2 | KDE 4.6 | Kernel-default 2.6.37.1-14 | using Tumbleweed openSUSE/Slashdot Profilname: openLHAG (OpenLHAG) Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, March 07, 2011 07:37:02 PM Kim Leyendecker wrote:
So far with the version game for marketing:
I think everybody jumped on your 11.5/12.0 discussion but you raised another question that got lost:
What´s the technology way we want do for the 11.4 successor?
So, are there any great ideas that people want to do? We have to go through openFATE soon and see also what people proposed. In general, we need both good ideas and volunteers driving the implementation and integration, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 11:33:18AM +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
What´s the technology way we want do for the 11.4 successor?
So, are there any great ideas that people want to do?
systemd by default. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2011 11:02 AM, Greg KH wrote:
plymouth as well. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk16SL8ACgkQLPWxlyuTD7IvpACeLy8WMcn86ailkfcNv3tX4AdK RagAn2cKGrxMIHByRK68Do9UZ50yh+jV =kMvZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/11 11:07 (GMT-0500) Jeff Mahoney composed:
systemd by default.
plymouth as well.
Immature, unnecessary st^H^Hfluff. Don't fix what ain't broke. Let Fedora, Mandriva, et al mature them another release or two. F15 is a rat's nest so far, and I'm not even touching Mandriva until the systemd noise dies down on the Cooker list. KMS still isn't fully baked yet even in 11.4, at least, not everything it obsoletes or otherwise impacts. -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2011 11:25 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
What's gross is the unnecessary kernel code we're carrying around to implement this. This code is exactly what's causing most of your perennial, obscure, console issues. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk16TWAACgkQLPWxlyuTD7K5fgCdGc85n/AKvCggSjU9SAuEt9/F Wz8AnRMnYlDW2//4MI280BQHAjI1SbC0 =KvAi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/11 11:27 (GMT-0500) Jeff Mahoney composed:
On 03/11/2011 11:25 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2011/03/11 11:07 (GMT-0500) Jeff Mahoney composed:
systemd by default.
plymouth as well.
What's gross is the unnecessary kernel code we're carrying around to implement this.
Implement what? I asked here weeks ago where to find a summary of what that stuff's for and got no response. Why does openSUSE still do what I need if I boot vanilla instead of desktop or default? Flicker? Always a non-issue here. Boot time? Who boots a non-test system except to change kernels?
This code is exactly what's causing most of your perennial, obscure, console issues.
What's all that extra stuff openSUSE kernels carry good for? I don't have the most annoying of those "issues" with vanilla, Fedora or Mandriva kernels. How can it be so hard to not have a non-black console background and legible fonts? -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Server - Never Desktop - depends(sometimes I lock it up....it IS 100% overclocked :-) Laptop - Every time I use it. Boot time is a non issue for me. My laptop is a P3/1Ghz with 512MB RAM. So, I'm prepared for a slight wait. Slow boot times that I see are usually caused by not having a network cord on a system and having the dhcp finally fail out (which can be a pain with 2 or 3 NICs). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Larry Stotler wrote:
Server - never Desktop, development - rarely Desktop, office - daily
Boot time is a non issue for me.
+1. Is completely immaterial. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 11/03/2011 19:08, Per Jessen a écrit :
Boot time is a non issue for me.
+1. Is completely immaterial.
when you test bootsplash or grub, it can be very important I recently tested an old server that insisted to make a full POST at each start, well 2 minutes. I had to control if it could pass through AC power failure. nightmare :-( jdd nb: not to say every 20 starts, full fsk... -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
I don't test either so my +1 remains :-) But not affected or really related to openSUSE boot-up time.
jdd nb: not to say every 20 starts, full fsk...
On a test-system any sane person would clearly disable that. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am I the only one who does not understand what are we talking about anymore here? I think I lost it many posts before(and I truly read them all), can someone summarize? ;-) 2011/3/11 Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org>:
Kostas -- http://opensuse.gr http://amb.opensuse.gr http://own.opensuse.gr http://warlordfff.tk me I am not me ------- Time travel is possible, you just need to know the right aliens -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Kostas Koudaras wrote:
I think the main topic is what Andreas raised: "So, are there any great ideas that people want to do?" The problem/issue is that this list is full of technical people and developers, so the great ideas here will be tainted by their point of view. Which isn't necessarily a Good Thing(r). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 11/03/2011 20:26, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
one of the most impressive feature of 11.4 is the speed of boot and stop. some people don't see why it's important, some other think it is. That said, we shoud (and by first me) look more at the subject before jumping to give an answer :-( sorry jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/11/2011 08:58 PM, jdd wrote:
jdd nb: not to say every 20 starts, full fsk...
That can easily be changed: http://waxborg.servepics.com/howto/prevent-ext3-check-forced Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.6-default as main host, with guests: openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.3-16-desktop "Tumbleweed" openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.1-1.2-desktop -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 11/03/2011 20:17, Vahis a écrit :
not sure it's a good idea on a server. On this box, I *need* a safe reboot, better wait than have a corrupted filesystem... also there is an UPS question regarding boot/stop jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/11/2011 11:39 PM, jdd wrote:
But if the full check is automatic after some number of mounts you don't have the control over it. I prefer the check when _I_ want it, not the system. The journal is checked at every boot and if there's a problem(s) you'll be prompted to do a manual check, which is fine. I'm talking about automatic _full_ check which I dislike and disable. Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.6-default as main host, with guests: openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.3-16-desktop "Tumbleweed" openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.1-1.2-desktop -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Vahis <waxborg@gmail.com> wrote:
Ted Tso (the ext4 maintainer) recommends for servers: 1) No auto fsck 2) Put FS on LVM 3) Routinely (from cron) make a snapshot 4) fsck the snapshot and check for errors 5) If errors, notify admin so they can schedule down time to run fsck and fix them. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/12/2011 12:01 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
Now there you might have a point for me to start using LVM :) I've never seen its benefits, but snapshots could be it, thanks :) Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.6-default as main host, with guests: openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.3-16-desktop "Tumbleweed" openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.1-1.2-desktop -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:37:29PM -0500, Larry Stotler wrote:
Boot time for servers do matter for systems where "uptime" is a measured amount and it matters for service contracts. So reducing the boot time from 5 minutes to 1 minute means real money for these providers and is something that everyone should be happy about.
Desktop - depends(sometimes I lock it up....it IS 100% overclocked :-)
I reboot my desktop far more than my laptop due to kernel development, so fast boot here is important.
Once you get used to it, you will not be :)
That should not be a gating issue on 11.4 anymore for you. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Greg KH wrote:
Only if they have an SLA that mandates _severe_ penalties when not met. Have you studied any decent SLAs recently? They're often not worth the paper or screen they're written on. Besides - a 30min outage per annum equates to an uptime of 99.998%. A boot time reduction from 5 to 1min is unlikely to make much of a dent in that, IMHO. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2011 03:03 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Actually, I'd argue that's exactly why quick boot times are important. Reducing the boot time from 5 mins to 1 min means that there are more opportunities to schedule maintenance windows and that the system can be kept patched more easily. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk16gFQACgkQLPWxlyuTD7LRZQCgpuUhSJzPgqbXlM+qGi5BCiEI bt0An0XI+E5T29pZzBk+jIhuh8L/Ig41 =n9oH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Jeff Mahoney wrote:
I surmise that you have probably never worked in an environment with such SLAs. Boot time is rarely if ever a factor in the evaluation of risk. The only/best way to keep uptimes of 99.998% or more is 1) to reduce change to an absolute minimum and 2) when at all necessary, make sure changes happen during the planned 30min outage window on Christmas Eve. Anyone managing an operation with an SLA of 99.998% becomes incredibly risk-averse and highly resistent to anyoneelses arguments of "but it boots faster" :-) Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that faster boot is not good, I'm just trying to say that from an openSUSE end-user perspective, it's low impact. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.6°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2011 03:25 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Not to mention that users with 99.998% service expectations probably aren't using the community edition unless they're capable of providing their own support. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk16h3QACgkQLPWxlyuTD7IVHwCfbCd1U88COJa/rTXBjsGN73ef 8ZsAn0iPT+exE82NOd18ZeRF/JA2nExe =Y9T+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
Correct. Most people are still used to turning on their PC and getting a cup of coffee when they get to work. It really hasn't changed that much in 15 years or so. I would look at the frequency of kernel updates to determine how often they are needed if you are looking at it from that perspective. I haven't updated my kernel on my desktop or laptop since 11.0 went EOL. Haven't had any notable issues. 2.6.25.20-0.7-default An unpatched Linux system is still generally more secure than a patched Windows system anyway. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Larry Stotler wrote:
Even longer back - back in 80s, I worked on an IBM 3194 display terminal with support for four 3270 sessions. (inside it was really a PC, I'm pretty sure). AFAIR, it took about a cup of coffee before it was ready to log in to TPX. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2011-03-11 at 21:25 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Wrong, IMNSHO. It is the service that is supposed to have 99.998% availability, not the machine. Anyone not using some sort of HA solution, with redundant machines, is battling statistics, and will eventually lose. For this reason, you are free to run updates with significant downtime on passive machines, and then fail them over, until all machines have been updated. I know sysadmins who run things the way you describe, running updates directly on the live system, causing completely unnecessary outages. If the service really is necessary, that is completely the wrong way of doing it Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Anders Johansson wrote:
I agree, I was just waiting for someone to bring that up.
Which is why, as I'm arguing, boot time is (largely) immaterial. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> wrote:
As someone else noted, in those cases, you are generally using SLES or RHES or something with a service contract. Not a community distro.
I reboot my desktop far more than my laptop due to kernel development, so fast boot here is important.
For you I can see that. For the average(or slightly above like me), it's not.
Just updated a Dual Xeon 500Mhz/1GB RAM to 11.4 from 11.3 with 2 NICs(100Mb & Gb) and it still does it. I can get a desktop fast, but have to wait on a VT. So, it's still there, as a DEFAULT config. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 11:46:13 -0800 Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> wrote:
Yes, but to be honest - A brand new server takes > 2 minutes through the BIOS, then ~50 seconds to boot into SLES11, and then it takes 3 trained monkeys about 1 hour to start the application (which can not be done automatically, apparently. It's enterprise software after all... :-) So shaving off half of the SLES11 boot time will help nothing. One example is that I always disable parallel booting, because some vendor-init-scripts don't cope well with it and I'm too lazy to fix them. Oh - add XEN to the mix and you'll get another ~4 minutes for scrubbing the RAM... :-) I'm very happy with systemd on my FACTORY laptop, but I think it's a total non-issue for servers, at least for the boot speed. ... the "put every service in its own cgroup" however is very useful on servers, as soon as someone fixes all the cgroups bugs... :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Yeah, powering up the drives, initializing the SCSI controllers etcetera. A desktop is actually quite a bit faster done with all that :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.6°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 22:23:09 +0100 Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
Yeah, powering up the drives, initializing the SCSI controllers etcetera.
Those are actually pretty fast (maybe 15 seconds, and SSDs are "instant on"), but finding all the processors in all sockets and counting the DIMMs seems to take some time. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Auf 11.03.2011 22:41, Stefan Seyfried schrieb:
Only if your BIOS is crap. I've seen server boards which spent >2 minutes in the BIOS, and once the BIOS was replaced with coreboot, the delay magically shrunk to 3-4 seconds (for a big multiprocessor board with all RAM slots populated). With coreboot, the limiting factor is disk spinup unless you place the boot kernel in the onboard flash chip and let that Linux kernel wait for disk spinup. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 01:22:58 +0100 Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <c-d.hailfinger.devel.2006@gmx.net> wrote:
Depends on how you define "big" and how many "all" means in number. XEN also needs a long time to clean the memory on start and while I'm not suggesting that XEN is doing everything in the best way, and I have no idea of the current memory bandwidth, but assume 20GB/second and you'll need at least one minute to clear memory. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2011-03-12 at 11:23 +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
I also have some HP-proliant servers, Their bios is a real nail to my coffin, although i doubt if i can repace it with a more sane bios. Other nice feature of XEN, is that it can emulate the hardware. So if you have to run some crappy distro that doesn't recognize your hardware, you can install SuSE & XEN and install that stuff in a single virtual machine. hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Auf 12.03.2011 11:23, Stefan Seyfried schrieb:
4 CPU packages, and 16 DIMM slots, but that was some time ago.
Wow, you have a machine with 1.2 Terabytes RAM? Assuming a RAM module size of 16 GB (biggest I could find), this means at least 75 RAM modules. Could you tell me which x86 board you're talking about? I'm curious because even the Tyan S8232 showcased at Cebit maxes out at 768 GB RAM. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 14 March 2011 21:52:39 Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
You might want to move beyond the desktop PC platform. Server boards can handle multiple terabytes of RAM. Here, for example, is SGI Altix with 24TB http://www.sgi.com/products/servers/altix/memory.html and here a slightly more standard one from Unisys (I hope the link works, it is the ES7000 7600R G2) with 2TB per board http://unisys.com/unisys/product/productdetail.jsp?id=1120000490000010000&pi... Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Anders Johansson <ajh@nitio.de> wrote:
It worked. Here's the specs for an IBM Power 780: http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/power/hardware/780/specs.html Takes 2TB 800Mhz or 1TB 1066Mhz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 21:52:39 +0100 Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <c-d.hailfinger.devel.2006@gmx.net> wrote:
Does certainly not qualify as "big" anymore ;-)
1024GB. And for whatever reason, the "scrubbing all available RAM" routine of xen does not get that 20GB/second, since even a small 144GB blade I rebooted today spent over 35 seconds in that state.
HP server blades, probably something like a BL680c G7 or such, not sure about the exact type. You'll get to see pretty interesting kernel problems with hardware of that size, but it's getting offtopic here since unfortunately nobody is going to run FACTORY on those beasts ;-) -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011-03-14 23:32:20 +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
want the postal address? i promise we will run factory on it and use it for opensuse. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Ok great all your servers boot slow and that will not change no matter what openSuSE does to it's boot time... could 11.5 have a desktop focus? you know looking at the desktop side of computing! I probably know exactly 0 "Home" users who keep their machines running hundreds of days, or suspend/resume at all. I for one reboot my computer multiple times per day probably, Linux some work, Wind00f some gaming,... My netbook is another case, suspend / resume does not work reliable enough, and you need luck to use Network(Manager)/Wifi after resuming. Desktop! Desktop! Desktop! regards cobexer Ps.: sorry Per Jessen and Felix Miata, the openSuSE mailinglists seem to be unable to send mails in a way GMail understands properly =/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 22:45:34 +0100 Christoph Obexer <cobexer@gmail.com> wrote:
I probably know exactly 0 "Home" users who keep their machines running hundreds of days, or suspend/resume at all.
My daughter always uses suspend to RAM, only after a kernel update I reboot her desktop. I think she does not even know how to shut down the machine ;) -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 March 2011 21:45:34 Christoph Obexer wrote:
Ps.: sorry Per Jessen and Felix Miata, the openSuSE mailinglists seem to be unable to send mails in a way GMail understands properly =/
Gmail Hummmmmmmmmmmmm no comment Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.7-0.7-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.5.5 (KDE 4.5.5) "release 1" 12:43 up 2 days 19:56, 4 users, load average: 0.04, 0.06, 0.08 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/11 22:05 (GMT+0100) Stefan Seyfried composed:
... the "put every service in its own cgroup" however is very useful on servers, as soon as someone fixes all the cgroups bugs... :-)
As I mentioned upthread, systemd is not yet mature enough, a high school sophomore or junior better left to mature in high school instead of in openSUSE College, which really doesn't have resources to be wasting on juvenile shenanigans. -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:36:45 -0500 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
...without citing any facts hinting at that you actually are using it and thus know what you're talking about...
systemd is not yet mature enough
It works very well for me, and I look forward to have it on servers, but not for the boot speed improvement, just for the "every service in its own cgroup" feature. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/11 22:44 (GMT+0100) Stefan Seyfried composed:
...without citing any facts hinting at that you actually are using it and thus know what you're talking about...
It's sufficient knowledge merely to subscribe to the Fedora devel and test lists and skim the subject lines to know systemd hasn't yet graduated high school, a measure of maturity which in itself isn't enough to survive in the real world anyway. That it works for some doesn't mean it's ready for everyone. -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:00:48 -0500 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Oh. Hearsay. Yes, that's a good advice. Today some guy in the train told me that this Leahnooks can not be used for anything. Probably it's finally time to reformat my drives and install Windows... -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/12 11:29 (GMT+0100) Stefan Seyfried composed:
Felix Miata<mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
It's sufficient knowledge merely to subscribe to the Fedora devel and test lists and skim the subject lines to know systemd hasn't yet graduated
Hearsay can be an excellent source of information, even wisdom, if the source has a reputation for trustworthiness, and/or when the hearsay can be confirmed through other means, like trying to use Fedora and replicating its reported failures. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=613756#c7
If you trust any old "some guy", maybe you deserve... -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 12 March 2011 11:22:17 Felix Miata wrote:
You know i could have sworn this was the opensuse factory list must be mistaken maybe redhat have made a takeover bid time to jump ship if thats the case with their concealments they get up to :-) .. Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.7-0.7-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.5.5 (KDE 4.5.5) "release 1" 12:40 up 2 days 19:53, 4 users, load average: 0.08, 0.09, 0.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 04:36:45PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
What, in your estemed opinion, would cause it to be "mature enough"?
Baseless attacks on developers who know way more about how the overall ecosystem and technical knowledge of your system is both rude, and counterproductive. *plonk* -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/11 14:01 (GMT-0800) Greg KH composed:
Exactly what did I write that you think constitutes an attack on developers, much less baseless? -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/11 11:46 (GMT-0800) Greg KH composed:
I reboot my desktop far more than my laptop due to kernel development, so fast boot here is important.
Makes you sound like a developer, not a typical user. You only have two systems? Are you able to use kexec to speed your booting? If not, what's kexec really for? -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 04:26:19PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
Ah, if I only had 2 systems... And yes, I am a developer, does that suddenly make me a person whom openSUSE is not targeting? Other distros have been trying that, which has caused no end of problems for them, and I do NOT want to see openSUSE make that same mistake.
Are you able to use kexec to speed your booting? If not, what's kexec really for?
I have no idea, I've never used kexec. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:58:38 -0800 Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> wrote:
I have no idea, I've never used kexec.
You should play with it, just because it is pretty cool (and it gets around the 2 minutes BIOS penalty on servers :-) (And you probably have used it if you installed an openSUSE release in the last years - the second stage of the installation is booted via kexec :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata schrieb:
Well, I shutdown my desktop every night and boot it every morning - and my laptop is sent to suspend every time I'm not using it. I guess that matches typical users pretty much. And yes, it's good just for power (and energy/nature) saving reasons to shut down systems when not using them. ;-) Robert Kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/12 16:23 (GMT+0100) KaiRo - Robert Kaiser composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2011/03/11 11:46 (GMT-0800) Greg KH composed:
I reboot my desktop far more than my laptop due to kernel development, so fast boot here is important.
Makes you sound like a developer, not a typical user.
Well, I shutdown my desktop every night and boot it every morning - and my laptop is sent to suspend every time I'm not using it. I guess that
Numerous IRC conversations motivate me to keep logged on regardless whether I'm in any condition to participate in real time. :-)
Suspend is only for laptops? -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata schrieb:
The shorter the backlog I think I need to read, the faster I come to actual work on any given day - and if something's really important, there are other ways to contact me.
Not really, but for one thing, I run Factory on the desktop and update that a few times per week, needing a reboot some time anyhow (while the laptop run the latest stable distro, 11.4 at this time) - and my desktop hardware drivers didn't really like suspend-to-disk the only time I tried a while back (might just work fine now). Robert Kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/11/2011 11:52 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
I've been complaining about this annoying flicker since 10x. It ALWAYS falls on deaf ears. Roman "Six by nine. Forty two." "That's it. That's all there is." "I always thought something was fundamentally wrong with the universe" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On ven., 2011-03-11 at 11:25 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
Plymouth IS mature.. Maybe nobody is touching it at Mandriva because people either left or were fired there .. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@novell.com> Novell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11 March 2011 13:40, Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@novell.com> wrote:
Mageia was created from Mandriva. I don't know what the status of systemd/plymouth is there though. I think it's identical to Mandriva 2010.1 [1]
[1] http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=iso1:alpha1_release_notes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2011 01:40 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
BTW, I've already packaged and ported (at least the 11.3) openSUSE bootsplash to plymouth. See home:jeff_mahoney:betterbooting. I've been using it for a few months now. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk16ec4ACgkQLPWxlyuTD7JNoQCfVc3DNxoQS2e7j8fI6G220pl1 JK0AoJiKaIJxZTLOF5mWQnOjCNIsmz1d =SreH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 11 mars 2011 à 14:36 -0500, Jeff Mahoney a écrit :
I guess now is just the right time to merge this work on Factory : we would have plenty of time to debug any regression caused by the switch. BTW, we will also need to update kiwi to support plymouth theming ;) -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@novell.com> Novell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 14. März 2011 schrieb Frederic Crozat:
I would like to propose a little systemd integration meeting though, so we can have a common base of understanding how to continue. The list of TODO items shouldn't be based on what Kay wants to have, but what we as team are able to finish in 8 months. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/11/2011 11:07 AM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
+1 -- Cheers! Roman "Six by nine. Forty two." "That's it. That's all there is." "I always thought something was fundamentally wrong with the universe" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/11/2011 11:02 AM, Greg KH wrote:
-- Cheers! Roman "Six by nine. Forty two." "That's it. That's all there is." "I always thought something was fundamentally wrong with the universe" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2011-03-11 at 11:33 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On Monday, March 07, 2011 07:37:02 PM Kim Leyendecker wrote:
That's what I *want*, not necessarily what I want to *do*. :) use systemd instead of sysv use plymouth instead of slash use dracut instead of mkinitrd kill the 8 seconds grub timeout get rid of /dev/disk/by-id/ in fstab and use /dev/disk/by-uuid/ do not install hundreds of -32bit packages on a 64bit-only box :) make sysconfig network optional and run services like networkmanager from upstream shipped systemd service files, instead of weird config options in /etc/sysconfig/. All that stuff should stay for servers, but it should be optional and not be the default. make rsyslog the default syslog, without any weird /etc/sysconfig/ configuration. it should be started by a single rsyslog service file shipped from upstream. All that stuff should stay for servers, but it should be optional and not be the default. make gdm/kdm be started from systemd, and get rid of the mindless sysconfig stuff that multiplexes all the things. /etc/init.d/xdm should not be the default get rid of all the unneeded entries for virtual filesystems in /etc/fstab, especially the deprecated and unsupported usbfs. do not allow the installer to split the rootfs from /usr :) do not install any local mail servers by default Kay -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 11 mars 2011, à 17:20 +0100, Kay Sievers a écrit :
[...nice list...] Can we lock you in a room for 8 months to force you to do all this? ;-) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/11/2011 07:50 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:
If I'm paid, and can bother Kay half-time, I accept ! Love that list really :-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2011 02:16 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Maybe not, but some of them definitely reduce the maintenance load, allowing developers to work on more interesting things. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk16d2cACgkQLPWxlyuTD7LsHQCfYp2hzMXkU+Vg4i4/3kprOfrh EWYAn3qqewEfLEMxvMN0Z7x1cfI7BmSm =TCLZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Jeff Mahoney wrote:
Completely agree, but I have to ask if that is really very relevant (considering the main openSUSE audience)? Consider the change from syslog-ng to rsyslog - for most end-users, probably zero impact, for many admins, major impact, for developers semi-significant impact (I can't gauge that). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Auf 11.03.2011 17:20, Kay Sievers schrieb:
Has the problem of systemd being slower than the current init system been solved? The last speed test I saw was this one: http://lizards.opensuse.org/2010/10/08/systemd-and-osc2010/ Regards, Carl-Daniel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 09:26:33PM +0100, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Yes, it is much faster, try it out today and see for yourself. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
<<<<< snip >>>>>
get rid of /dev/disk/by-id/ in fstab and use /dev/disk/by-uuid/
<<<<<snip >>>>>
Kay
If you get rid of /dev/disk/by-id, How can you identify a partition in event of a partition table failure? Also, if you have a drive failure and have to restore from a backup (disk image), how are you going to partition a new disk which will have different uuids? Tom -- Tom Taylor - retired penguin openSuSE 11.3 x86_64 openSUSE 11.4RC1 x86_64 KDE 4.4.4, FF 3.6.8 KDE 4.5.95, FF 4.0 Beta claws-mail 3.7.8 claws-mail 3.7.8 registered linux user 263467 linxt-At-comcast-DoT-net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 12/03/2011 07:58, Thomas Taylor a écrit :
If you get rid of /dev/disk/by-id, How can you identify a partition in event of a partition table failure?
the partition number is still part of the name
if you don't have a "fdisk -l" hard copy, you are in trouble for recovery of the same disk. For an other disk the partitionning have no meaning (only the mount points have) or may be I don't understand the point jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 08:02:21 +0100 jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Not on my install (11.4 from scratch) unless I modify /etc/fstab and /boot/grub/menu.lst as shown in the attached screenshots. The only partition number in either one are what I have added, not by the installer which ONLY shows uuids, not partition numbers.
I always save a backup before any update/install including drive info. How do you ghost a backup that only has uuids when replacing a defective drive (I.E. how do you transfer the uuids which will be different on the new drive)? Tom -- Tom Taylor - retired penguin openSuSE 11.3 x86_64 openSUSE 11.4 x86_64 KDE 4.4.4, FF 3.6.8 KDE 4.5.95, FF 4.0 Beta claws-mail 3.7.8 claws-mail 3.7.8 registered linux user 263467 linxt-At-comcast-DoT-net
the partition number is still part of the name
Not on my install (11.4 from scratch) unless I modify /etc/fstab
Le 14/03/2011 08:24, Thomas Taylor a écrit : * you are right, I mixed this with the disk-id I use that said I found the solution with google: ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/ have to be saved with the other data mine: ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/ total 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 mars 14 08:30 11799bca-b64f-4170-ac72-d897d8fe91fe -> ../../sda5 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 mars 14 08:30 20596886-f3a7-4c54-b83a-41a3c3c62a22 -> ../../sda9 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 mars 14 08:30 22F49430F49407E5 -> ../../sda2 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 mars 14 08:30 4694AEE894AEDA27 -> ../../sda1 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 mars 14 08:30 5890FA0490F9E880 -> ../../sda4 (...) and ubuntu seems to work like openSUSE on this respect and it don't seems to be the default on 11.4 (not on my install at least) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/03/14 09:24 (GMT-0700) Thomas Taylor composed:
Le 12/03/2011 07:58, Thomas Taylor a écrit :
If you get rid of /dev/disk/by-id, How can you identify a partition in event of a partition table failure?
For several years now we've had the choice of 5 ways to refer to a partition (listed in order of average length): 1-device name 2-by-id 3-by-uuid 4-by-path 5-by-label The middle 3 typically cause lines too long to fit on one line in menu.lst and fstab, and regardless of fit, are immemorable, so I never use them if I can help it. The first is unreliable, which is why the others were created. That leaves #5 as both memorably short (in optional form at least), and reliable, and what I select during installation as long as not using RAID. The shorter fstab syntax you can substitute for cmdline, instead of root=/dev/disk/by-label/hdnickP10suse114 takes the following form root=LABEL=hdnickP10suse114 Since you get to pick your own memorable partition names, why in either menu.lst or fstab use anything else? You can even use labels with swap partitions, by recreating them using the -L switch, same as when using mkfs. -- "How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver." Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Op 14-03-11 11:24, Felix Miata schreef:
I love it! -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.37.1-1.2-desktop x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2sfn1 Systeem: openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) KDE: 4.6.00 (4.6.0) "release 6" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 06:24:30 -0400 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Thanks, Felix; I'd forgotten about by-label. That would also solve the replacement problem by creating labeled partitions with PartedMagic. Tom -- Tom Taylor - retired penguin openSuSE 11.3 x86_64 openSUSE 11.4M6 x86_64 KDE 4.4.4, FF 3.6.8 KDE 4.5.95, FF 4.0 Beta claws-mail 3.7.8 claws-mail 3.7.8 registered linux user 263467 linxt-At-comcast-DoT-net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 07:24, Thomas Taylor <linxt@comcast.net> wrote:
HTH ne... -- Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org) Now accepting personal mail for GMail invites. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
You'd have the same problem with by-id, which uses the disk's model and serial. You might be thinking of by-label. -Jeff -- Jeff Mahoney (mobile) On Mar 12, 2011, at 1:58 AM, Thomas Taylor <linxt@comcast.net> wrote:
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Am Freitag, 11. März 2011, 11:33:18 schrieb Andreas Jaeger:
Horde 4 Groupware packages - I'll do them myself. Kolab-related patches/addons, if they are still needed. Horde 3 will stay or be dropped depending on upstream decision of they want to provide security fixes for a good part of 12.0's lifetime. I am not willing to do anything kolab related to H3 though. -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (37)
-
Anders Johansson -
Andreas Jaeger -
Bruno Friedmann -
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
Christoph Obexer -
Felix Miata -
Frederic Crozat -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Greg Freemyer -
Greg KH -
Hans Witvliet -
Hans-Peter Holler -
Ilya Chernykh -
jdd -
Jeff Mahoney -
Jeff Mahoney -
KaiRo - Robert Kaiser -
Kay Sievers -
Kim Leyendecker -
Kostas Koudaras -
Larry Stotler -
Marcus Rueckert -
Martin Schlander -
ne... -
Nelson Marques -
Oddball -
Per Jessen -
Peter Nikolic -
Ralf Lang -
Roman Bysh -
Stefan Seyfried -
Stephan Barth -
Stephan Kulow -
Steven Sroka -
Thomas Taylor -
Vahis -
Vincent Untz