On 09/18/2014 03:54 AM, Arvin Schnell wrote:

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 07:32:16PM -0400, Roman Bysh wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Hello all,

Does anyone know if 20140918 ISOs will include the completed final gui with a working Yast partitioner?

Complete and final? AFAIK there are no open feature requests. But there are bug reports so likely it's not final.

...

The 20140909 ISO Yast partitioner has a default setting:

sda1 --> swap sda2 --> / sda3 --> /home

If I delete this setting in VirtualBox and change it to:

sda1 --> / sda2 --> /swap sda3 --> /home

I get an error: Warning: Some subvolumes of the root filesystem are shadowed by mount points of other filesystem. This could lead to problems.

When using the expert partitioner it is the task of the user to set the subvolumes of / so that they do not shadow other mount points, e.g. /home.

Regards, Arvin Because btrfs is new to me, can you point me to the setting in the Expert Partitioner for setting the subvolumes under root?

I don't like setting /swap as my first partition. Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Freitag, 19. September 2014 schrieb Basil Chupin:

With RAM being so cheap now-a-says and with systems using 4GB as the minimum (most I would think now use 16GB or more), /swap partition has become no more than a novel requirement. So, to see the partitioner in YaST in oS 13.2 still wanting to create a /swap at the beginning of the HDD is rather puzzling.

I agree on the "RAM is cheap" part, and my servers don't have a swap partition anymore. If a process eats up all memory, I prefer to let the OOM killer do its job instead of first "swapping to death" and then let the OOM killer do its job ;-) Swapping to death means the server is unresponsable for quite some time and typically needs to get "fixed" by a reboot. However, there is one usecase left that needs a swap partition: suspend to disk. And that's probably the reason why YaST still suggests to create a swap partition. (I'd even say suspend to disk is _the only reason_ to have a swap partition ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- Manchmal stellt man halt Fragen, auf die keiner eine Antwort hat. (Habe ich hier auch schon hingekriegt). [Helga Fischer in opensuse-de] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 20/09/14 11:05, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2014-09-19 22:08, Christian Boltz wrote:

...

However, there is one usecase left that needs a swap partition: suspend to disk. And that's probably the reason why YaST still suggests to create a swap partition. Yes, that would be true (about yast) if it suggested a swap partition bigger than RAM, and that is not always the case. It often is smaller and insufficient. YaST often guesses wrong about the machine being a laptop or not.

...

(I'd even say suspend to disk is _the only reason_ to have a swap partition ;-) Nope... my system has 8 GiB of ram, and it does use swap (4 GiB at this moment). And I say that it is faster with swap enabled than without it (RAM being the same). Because now I have 3.6 GiB of ram free, and 1.4 in cache. Without swap, I'd probably have no free ram, no cache or very small - making the machine slower than now.

As it is, I just have to pay a little penalty as delay when switching from one big desktop application to another.

Buy more ram, you say? Nay, the board is maxed.

Perhaps I should have expanded on my response. My response was directed at what Roman stated in his OP, namely- "The 20140909 ISO Yast partitioner has a default setting: "sda1 --> swap "sda2 --> / "sda3 --> /home "If I delete this setting in VirtualBox and change it to: "sda1 --> / "sda2 --> /swap "sda3 --> /home "I get an error:......" and in particular at "...Yast partitioner has a *default* setting:..." [my emphasis] as wells as at the error he gets when he tries to do what HE wants to do with swap partition and where HE wants it to go. There have been discussions in the HELP list where people have stated that they often do not have a swap partition of any size because their system has no need for /swap. Of course, some people do need /swap - like yourself it would appear - but I certainly don't need one. My response - badly put - was aimed at YaST *forcing* not only a /swap to be created but also *where* YaST wants to put it and not where "*I*" want to put it (if I want /swap at all that is). BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.14.1 & kernel 3.16.3-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 02:30:00PM +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

Perhaps I should have expanded on my response.

My response was directed at what Roman stated in his OP, namely-

"The 20140909 ISO Yast partitioner has a default setting:

"sda1 --> swap "sda2 --> / "sda3 --> /home

"If I delete this setting in VirtualBox and change it to:

"sda1 --> / "sda2 --> /swap "sda3 --> /home

"I get an error:......"

and in particular at "...Yast partitioner has a *default* setting:..." [my emphasis] as wells as at the error he gets when he tries to do what HE wants to do with swap partition and where HE wants it to go.

There have been discussions in the HELP list where people have stated that they often do not have a swap partition of any size because their system has no need for /swap. Of course, some people do need /swap - like yourself it would appear - but I certainly don't need one.

My response - badly put - was aimed at YaST *forcing* not only a /swap to be created but also *where* YaST wants to put it and not where "*I*" want to put it (if I want /swap at all that is).

The "error" has nothing to do with the swap partition but with btrfs subvolumes or / and the /home partition as I already wrote. More that that, the user can ignore the message (like all checks in the expert partitioner). Regards, Arvin -- Arvin Schnell, Senior Software Engineer, Research & Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

В Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:15:17 -0400 Roman Bysh пишет:

On 09/20/2014 03:25 AM, Arvin Schnell wrote:

...

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 02:30:00PM +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Perhaps I should have expanded on my response.

My response was directed at what Roman stated in his OP, namely-

"The 20140909 ISO Yast partitioner has a default setting:

"sda1 --> swap "sda2 --> / "sda3 --> /home

"If I delete this setting in VirtualBox and change it to:

"sda1 --> / "sda2 --> /swap "sda3 --> /home

"I get an error:......"

and in particular at "...Yast partitioner has a *default* setting:..." [my emphasis] as wells as at the error he gets when he tries to do what HE wants to do with swap partition and where HE wants it to go.

There have been discussions in the HELP list where people have stated that they often do not have a swap partition of any size because their system has no need for /swap. Of course, some people do need /swap - like yourself it would appear - but I certainly don't need one.

My response - badly put - was aimed at YaST *forcing* not only a /swap to be created but also *where* YaST wants to put it and not where "*I*" want to put it (if I want /swap at all that is).

The "error" has nothing to do with the swap partition but with btrfs subvolumes or / and the /home partition as I already wrote. More that that, the user can ignore the message (like all checks in the expert partitioner).

Regards, Arvin

Arvin I found the problem. When the user creates root has the first partition. You must click on the btrfs icon in the left column and click on the edit button.

You must remove "home" from the subvolumes list. I don't know if it's a bug or is it intentional to have "home" in the list of subvolumes. It shouldn't be there if the /home partition hasn't been created yet. Yes.

If /home partition is created, home is no more *subvolume*, so I'd argue that subolume should be there exactly until separate filesystem for /home is created. Now yast probably could be intelligent enough and automatically remove home subvolume when additional mount point is created. Also notice that your original "error" was not not an error, but just a warning, which correctly informed you that you need to check your configuration. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/19/2014 05:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2014-09-19 22:08, Christian Boltz wrote:

...

However, there is one usecase left that needs a swap partition: suspend to disk. And that's probably the reason why YaST still suggests to create a swap partition.

Yes, that would be true (about yast) if it suggested a swap partition bigger than RAM, and that is not always the case. It often is smaller and insufficient. YaST often guesses wrong about the machine being a laptop or not.

I believe suspend to disk uses some kind of compression, and you can get away with having a swap that is smaller than RAM. Safest to have swap the same size though. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 2014-09-20 17:05, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Am 19.09.2014 um 22:08 schrieb Christian Boltz:

...

(I'd even say suspend to disk is _the only reason_ to have a swap partition ;-)

The kernel still is not really designed to run without swap AFAIK

Source? Cause I'm on a total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 32925516 32114292 811224 7383020 1882632 23453848 -/+ buffers/cache: 6777812 26147704 Swap: 0 0 0 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

With RAM being so cheap now-a-says and with systems using 4GB as the minimum (most I would think now use 16GB or more), /swap partition has become no more than a novel requirement. So, to see the partitioner in YaST in oS 13.2 still wanting to create a /swap at the beginning of the HDD is rather puzzling.

Well, we do cater to a lot more than just the latest and greatest. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (22.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

On 20/09/14 21:31, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

With RAM being so cheap now-a-says and with systems using 4GB as the minimum (most I would think now use 16GB or more), /swap partition has become no more than a novel requirement. So, to see the partitioner in YaST in oS 13.2 still wanting to create a /swap at the beginning of the HDD is rather puzzling. Well, we do cater to a lot more than just the latest and greatest.

From something I read recently (on one of 'our' lists) this may not be the case any longer starting with the release of 13.2.

But I may have misread what was stated.

What was stated then? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (22.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sunday 2014-09-21 07:38, Basil Chupin wrote:

I vaguely remember someone lamenting that there is no i386 version of 13.2 being compiled and the reply was that that's progress for you and such machines are now rarer than hens' teeth so no more version for them -- or words to this effect. But I'll go searching.....

SUSE/openSUSE did not build for i386 since a long long time, i586 being the minimum requirement, the latter of which is unlikely going away given Factory is still being built for i586. And if you nevertheless want to run SUSE on i386, all you need is a kernel with FPU emulation, and a glibc rebuilt for i386. The rest you can run off i586 packages. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-09-21 11:41, Daniele wrote:

Il 21/09/2014 09:54, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

...

On Sunday 2014-09-21 07:38, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

SUSE/openSUSE did not build for i386 since a long long time, i586 being the minimum requirement, the latter of which is unlikely going away given Factory is still being built for i586.

And if you nevertheless want to run SUSE on i386, all you need is a kernel with FPU emulation, and a glibc rebuilt for i386. The rest you can run off i586 packages.

That's right, the 386 is VERY old.

More and more software are compiled with sse2 optimizations. Requiring an i586 machine is not enough. Nowdays building for i386 is a non sense but i586 could be too. My desktop is an old (10 years old) Athlon XP. Still working fine for common task but now is out :(

Packages with sse2 optimizations are: flash, chrome/chromiun, google-earth, xapian and Qt5.

I wonder what machines would be covered and which not by going up a notch, to i686. I guess that most people using old machines have a Pentium IV class cpu. I do. Some of these do have MMX, SSE and SSE2, the gcc compiler class them as "pentium4m". But I suppose that the i686 is the "generic" one. What would be left out by using that instead of the i586? Would it be a good thing? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlQexcsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VkHQCeP3EtA6enLsuI1tKtSf6SjnQF UXwAnju16Asr8fMsmyZoeC0urzzl1o3R =6dEJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Il 21/09/2014 14:51, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

On Sunday 2014-09-21 14:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

Packages with sse2 optimizations are: flash, chrome/chromiun, google-earth, xapian and Qt5.

I wonder what machines would be covered and which not by going up a notch, to i686.

i686 is basically just i586+CMOV, it does not guarantee you the presence of SSE. That's reversed for x86_64.

...

What would be left out by using that instead of the i586?

Not much, which in reverse means i686 does not gain you much either.

Right, if I remember well, Pentium Pro is already i686 (for sure PII). Daniele. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-09-21 15:31, Daniele wrote:

Il 21/09/2014 14:51, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

...

On Sunday 2014-09-21 14:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

What would be left out by using that instead of the i586?

Not much, which in reverse means i686 does not gain you much either.

Right, if I remember well, Pentium Pro is already i686 (for sure PII).

What about Pentium4 target? That's about year 2000 cpu. Would switching to it have adverse effects? Perhaps for AMD cpus? Another suitable target instead? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlQe39AACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WWwACfaeL/QkWoBv1x2T3zBYdiwR9g 1s8AnilTv/9Ciev9CaAAt/05wUSqnOiS =X5Dn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/21/2014 08:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

That's right, the 386 is VERY old.

Back in the mid '80s, when the i386 was first announced, I was a computer tech, working on mini computers. At that time, the VAX 11/780 was the most powerful system I worked on. When the i386 was announced, it was reported to be as powerful as the VAX. It was then I realized that the days of mini computers were numbered and I should look to moving into other areas of work. Is there anyone who's still running a 386 or 486? I only have one 32 bit system left here. It's an IBM Netfinity server with a Pentium III CPU. Everything else is 64 bit, including the 4 core with hyper-threading and 16 GB of memory that I'm using right now. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2014-09-21 16:34, James Knott wrote:

...

On 09/21/2014 08:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Is there anyone who's still running a 386 or 486?

I have one, maybe two, in working state, but I certainly do not "use" it. It has SuSE 7.3, and no intention to upgrade it at all. Perhaps I'm confusing the machine and it runs 5.3 or maybe 6.something. I have forgotten. :-)

...

I only have one 32 bit system left here. It's an IBM Netfinity server with a Pentium III CPU.

My file and other things server is 32 bit, but it is a P4.

Also I read that some organizations run 32 bit virtual machines, on 64 bit hosts. Smaller requirements allow for more virtual machines, perhaps.

If you need lots of processes (postfix or dovecot for instance), you can squeeze more onto a machine running 32bit than 64bit. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Monday 2014-09-22 10:39, Per Jessen wrote:

...

...

My file and other things server is 32 bit, but it is a P4.

Also I read that some organizations run 32 bit virtual machines, on 64 bit hosts. Smaller requirements allow for more virtual machines, perhaps.

If you need lots of processes (postfix or dovecot for instance), you can squeeze more onto a machine running 32bit than 64bit.

But you would want to run x32 instead of i586 in any case.

Is it supported for openSUSE? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott wrote:

On 09/21/2014 08:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

That's right, the 386 is VERY old.

Back in the mid '80s, when the i386 was first announced, I was a computer tech, working on mini computers. At that time, the VAX 11/780 was the most powerful system I worked on. When the i386 was announced, it was reported to be as powerful as the VAX. It was then I realized that the days of mini computers were numbered and I should look to moving into other areas of work.

Is there anyone who's still running a 386 or 486? I only have one 32 bit system left here. It's an IBM Netfinity server with a Pentium III CPU. Everything else is 64 bit, including the 4 core with hyper-threading and 16 GB of memory that I'm using right now.

Our last 486 was decommissioned a couple of years ago, it was a firewall machine. I think it was running SuSE Linux 7.1. 32bit machines is a different story, I have plenty of stuff running 32bit. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 22.09.2014 10:36, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2014-09-21 11:41, Daniele wrote:

...

Il 21/09/2014 09:54, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

...

On Sunday 2014-09-21 07:38, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

SUSE/openSUSE did not build for i386 since a long long time, i586 being the minimum requirement, the latter of which is unlikely going away given Factory is still being built for i586.

And if you nevertheless want to run SUSE on i386, all you need is a kernel with FPU emulation, and a glibc rebuilt for i386. The rest you can run off i586 packages. That's right, the 386 is VERY old.

...

More and more software are compiled with sse2 optimizations. Requiring an i586 machine is not enough. Nowdays building for i386 is a non sense but i586 could be too. My desktop is an old (10 years old) Athlon XP. Still working fine for common task but now is out :(

Packages with sse2 optimizations are: flash, chrome/chromiun, google-earth, xapian and Qt5. I wonder what machines would be covered and which not by going up a notch, to i686.

I guess that most people using old machines have a Pentium IV class cpu. I do. Some of these do have MMX, SSE and SSE2, the gcc compiler class them as "pentium4m". It's difficult to make any semi-accurate guesses about what _most_ people do - I have a test-system cluster running on PII's as well as a few servers on PIII's. The PII's are long overdue for replacement, but as long as they work, well ... the PIII's can't be replaced due to lack of hardware (plug-in cards).

...

But I suppose that the i686 is the "generic" one. What would be left out by using that instead of the i586?

Sure a corner case, but embedded processors like the Intel Quark X1000 which indeed is just a Pentium Class CPU.

...

Would it be a good thing? I don't see that much would be gained.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 2014-09-22 09:35, Felix Miata wrote:

Daniele wrote on 2014-09-21 11:41 (GMT+0200):

...

More and more software are compiled with sse2 optimizations. Requiring an i586 machine is not enough. Nowdays building for i386 is a non sense but i586 could be too. My desktop is an old (10 years old) Athlon XP. Still working fine for common task but now is out :(

You bought last of breed, eh? I still have 3 such running 13.1, and might have all 3 running Factory but for http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=889714 "installation aborts before GUI starts...."

Since my Athlon is unused, I could donate it to SUSE's openqa. Any takers?

Any chance the YaST installer has included those and/or CMOV and constitutes the reason for that bug? QT5 maybe the reason?

I suspect it may be handwritten assembly which is at fault. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

El Domingo, 21 de septiembre de 2014 00:35:17 Basil Chupin escribió:

On 20/09/14 21:31, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

With RAM being so cheap now-a-says and with systems using 4GB as the minimum (most I would think now use 16GB or more), /swap partition has become no more than a novel requirement. So, to see the partitioner in YaST in oS 13.2 still wanting to create a /swap at the beginning of the HDD is rather puzzling.

Well, we do cater to a lot more than just the latest and greatest.

From something I read recently (on one of 'our' lists) this may not be the case any longer starting with the release of 13.2.

But I may have misread what was stated.

BC

Hi. I'm using Factory on a netbook with 2GB of RAM and it works flawlessly. Obviously I'm using LXDE and not a full fledged desktop like KDE or GNOME. But I've run KDE in this netbook and it worked nicely too. It's just that LXDE is more appropriate for this kind of hardware. swap is seldom used even though I use Firefox as brower. Greetings. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org