[opensuse-factory] Status: distribution
Hi, Milestone8 is not ready, there are some nasty issues. Most prominently the new kernel throwing OOPSes without acpi=off and KDE updates still don't work, so I won't release M8 in this state. How much delay this means I can't tell atm, but thursday is still possible. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
I guess that means not much hope of having anything done about this one: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538351 ? /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag 29 September 2009 schrieb Per Jessen:
You can also do what Nikanth presented on the conference: http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/7/71/Buggykernel.pdf If you need help, subscribe to opensuse-kernel@opensuse.org Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/29/2009 08:13 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Stay with it, Per. The people Novell/MS has now kept to keep openSUSE running have lost the plot :-( : a multitude of repositories for this-and-that and run by this-and-that-person; without any explanation for a user as to which repo. does what and why. Nobody is really in control, and the whole thing is going arse-up. And if you look at any application name in YaST2 Software Manager you will see that each entry (from all the ones I have looked at) show the entry, "Supportability: unknown". Now, this is most telling because the YaST2 rpm itself, which I understand is something written by the SuSE people for SuSE/openSUSE, has this description (Supportability: unknown) attached to it! The question therefore has to be asked: what *DO* Novell/openSUSE staff contribute to the openSUSE distribution - apart from "You will have to fix the bug"?
/Per
BC -- Never run yourself down - let other people do it instead. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Why do we keep considering Novell anything else than just a community member with big commitment? I think I'm allowed to say that, even if I am not a Novell employee, I feel this to be 'my' distribution. I feel as an integral part of the community and participate in different ways, offering a lot of time. As such: Novell offers the same to the openSUSE distribution as other contributors (I'd say even more: nobody else I've talked to offered us a BuildService and the infrastructure for example) About the case itself: Per is doing a great job in submitting reports and as I've seen he's also one that follows up on additional queries (not everybody does so unfortunately... Very often you see a 'file and bye' approach). But wouldn't it be great if we could just convince Per to go one step further? It's not that he is 'requested' to do so, but very often just giving often enough a hint in the right direction motivates people to look at something new / more. Don't take the 'help fix it' as offensive. It's a rather natural way of 'suggesting' that everybody can learn something new. Of course it might well be that Per does not have the time to invest in this specific case, or not the will. BUT maybe he is willing and just does not know how to get started for such a case? Why would we (community) not want to have him help out with all his knowledge, which, as hopefully nobody doubts, is of great value? Take this as a call for contribution: we all can help, in whatever way you can even think of... Programming / fixing code bugs is one way, reporting another appreciated. And many more tasks can be listed.... very often the step from reporting to fixing is actually not that big a gap as expected (not every fix involves code changes for example... ). Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Perhaps because Novell is a lot more than that?
I completely agree and you will also occasionally see me take a few further steps. With the Milestones though I can't really commit much time, so I just report what I see. In particular a case like this when I can't even get the installation started and the Milestone is a clear regression from the previous. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/29/2009 11:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Because Novell went out its way to acquire SuSE for its own benefit and not for the sake of a "community" effort.
You seem to treat this thing akin to a religious experience where "community" is some group of people adhering to one of the multitude of beliefs relating to some code of moral conduct as propounded by some religious enterprises. It is nothing of the sort. I have been an "adherant" and an "apostle" of SuSE (now openSUSE) for many years until recently. I am getting very, very close to converting to being an 'atheist' when it comes to oS.
Per has been contributing for quite some time now but - and I do not even begin to assume that I convey his thoughts in any accurate way - I feel that he is now getting just a bit peed off (MY words, not his) about the situation with oS as it has been developing in recent times. I know that I am. I am not a programmer. I have no programming skills. All I can do is to report about hassles. And I do *NOT* mean having to submit "bug reports" about something which does not even work to begin with when it should work and should have been tested by the programmers/developers before the sheebang was released for download by the public- and cost the public time and money to download the crap (example: CDs which were (?)~400MB big when they should have been ~700MB big). 5 years ago I had pride in waiting to get my copy of the latest SuSE and I had spoken with confidence to my friends using anything other than SuSE about the joy of using SuSE. Now I keep my mouth shut, and if asked about Linux I point them towards Ubuntu/Kubuntu and, in recent times, towards Arch Linux.
Dominique
BC -- Never run yourself down - let other people do it instead. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I am not a programmer. I have no programming skills. All I can do is to report about hassles.
Same here, from a non-technical (non-IT) background.
Do you use openSUSE w/ Ubuntu ? I am using Ubuntu 9.04 alongwith openSUSE 11.1; though I find oS 11.1 is not as stable as Ubuntu. Sometime back I tried to change the Window Manager (am using GNOME as the default desktop in Ubuntu 9.04) from Metacity to Emerald using the Compiz Fusion Icon utility and ended-up with half the icons lost/not working as expected from the panels. After a reboot, the panel sorted itself out without any user intervention and the icons & shortcuts worked perfectly. Sadly, can't say the same about GNOME in openSUSE 11.1 at this point. I'm hoping that openSUSE 11.2 will be a stabler release and am looking forward to install that on my PC in place of openSUSE 11.1. Jay -- Linux User 483705 | openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04 (i686) w/ Windows XP Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 29 of September 2009, Jay Mistry wrote:
So you want to help, even if you have no programming skills? How about helping with bug triage then, for example? http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/BugSquashing , http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:KDE/Screening have instructions for KDE. Since you seem to use GNOME, I don't know if GNOME has such a page, but if you write to the opensuse-gnome list, I'm pretty sure Vincent and others will be happy to hear you'd like to help them with it.
You do realize that Ubuntu 9.04 is about half a year newer than 11.1, with a newer GNOME version, and that as such this may have nothing to do with the actual distribution? -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Lubos Lunak wrote:
I subscribed to opensuse-communityscreening quite a while ago, but that list has never had any traffic. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Sure, would be glad to help (/ though in spare time only, which means weekends (mostly) /). I began Linux (about 1.5 years back) with openSUSE (11), after a couple of failed Fedora 9 install attempts due to monitor/display problems, having come from exclusive Windows-land. At that time, I did file a bug - https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=469256 and a more recent one for KDE - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206577. The caveat for above being that I would not be able to contribute where technical knowledge is required - for example, the scripts and *advanced* cmd-line syntax on these lists goes over my head.
Yes, but somehow I do not feel comfortable with GNOME in openSUSE, this problem started after I upgraded to GNOME 2.26. Hence what I said earlier: would prefer to wait for oS 11.2 and do a fresh install at that time, rather than doing part-by-part updates that don't seem to work properly. Jay -- Linux User 483705 | openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04 (i686) w/ Windows XP Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le mardi 29 septembre 2009, à 22:25 +0530, Jay Mistry a écrit :
Please subscribe to the opensuse-gnome mailing list and share your experience with GNOME 2.26 there :-) (or make sure to open bugs) Thanks, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Please subscribe to the opensuse-gnome mailing list
Already have.
and share your experience with GNOME 2.26 there :-) (or make sure to open bugs)
I don't use GNOME with openSUSE 11.1 anymore, mostly KDE 4.3.1/3.5.10. As I said before, would prefer to wait for the stable openSUSE 11.2 release and install that in place of oS 11.1.
Thanks,
Vincent
Jay -- Linux User 483705 | openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04 (i686) w/ Windows XP Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 29 of September 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:
I don't believe anybody on this list could be this clueless, so I have to consider this to be a flamebait.
And then opened up a good part of it and keeps working on that.
I am not a programmer. I have no programming skills. All I can do is to report about hassles.
This is only true if by the last sentence you meant to say that you are not willing to do anything. The possibility to do other things is certainly there (bug triage, packaging, documentation,...). Say you want to help and I'm sure somebody will find something for you. But you just hide behind false claims about how you cannot do anything (http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2009-09/msg00223.html for an example to others).
Now I keep my mouth shut
No, sadly you don't. For some unknown reason you repeatedly find the time to only complain and demean the work of others who create something. Seriously, the people making openSUSE worse are actually people like you. If you don't want to be part of the solution, at least don't be part of the problem. -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 29.09.2009 17:38, schrieb Lubos Lunak:
Looks a bit like more a topic for -project? Anyway I "need" to comment on that. Yes, Novell opened up a good part of it. There is nothing wrong with it, it's actually perfectly fine. But what doesn't seem to work (looking from the outside) is the rate in which Novell decreases it's own commitment to openSUSE related to the rate we can attract community people to step in. Currently it seems that some areas in openSUSE are quite understaffed and the community is not (yet?) able to fill that gap. Just my thoughts and probably that's the kind of feeling some others have. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 29 September 2009 19:23:01 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Well, I guess openSUSE just needs to stop offering lvm if it can't support it. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 29.09.2009 20:11, schrieb Stephan Kulow:
I'll take that as irony as in if openSUSE (including Novell) cannot support (and therefore ship it) we are doomed and other distributions will get some more users :-( Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 29 September 2009 20:31:33 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Well, what do you suggest? If noone can fix lvm bugs, how are we supposed to help it beside declaring lvm support as broken? Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Is it me, or has this thread somehow taken a really stupid turn? I asked a question about an outstanding issue that I reported for M7. Stephan suggested I fix the bug myself, in which case I might as well not have bothered to report it at all. Why are we now discussing whether the openSUSE community can fix LVM problems? Also, AFAICT, the openSUSE community (as a whole) has yet to be charged with solving any of the problems reported in bugzilla, so how do you foresee the community helping with that, Stephan? /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag 29 September 2009 schrieb Per Jessen:
No it isn't you. Your bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538351 dated from 2009-09-11 has no response since. That's bad. But as you said there is no LVM involved, right? So this turn of this thread into accusing/defending has nothing to do with _your_ item. And it has nothing to do with Stephan's announcement about delaying M8. And this is mostly bad! Please folks: if one starts/continues a thread about Factory/Milestones/Status let this as it was about. Hans-Peter PS: a simple new comment "Ping" into your bugzilla's could do it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hans-Peter Holler wrote:
Stephan seemed to suggest that Thursday was still a possible for M8, which surprised me as my bugreport was a hard show-stopper for any testing on HP Proliants with SMART arrays. When Stephan suggested I just "fix it myself", I think it got everyones attention. I still think the thread has taken a stupid turn, even if Stephans suggestion did touch a nerve.
Hans-Peter PS: a simple new comment "Ping" into your bugzilla's could do it.
Hmm, I haven't tried that before - my bugreport was initially re-assigned to "nld10-bugs-qa@forge.provo.novell.com" - which part of the openSUSE community is that? (just wondering). /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.3°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:05:46PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Seems like the bug screening team made a mistake in that case. nld10 is Enterprise Desktop 10, which makes no sense at all for your bug. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Part of it could be the age of the machine. There's been a definate trend to tell people to upgrade their machines over the last few years. I've been told to upgrade the RAM in my P3 laptops or buy new since a P3/500 isn't considered a reasonably useful system to many these days. The fact that it's fast enough to play movies and surf(without flash, which I despise anyway) seems to be lost on some people. I've been waiting for the minimum requirements to move to 512MB and 2GB be the recommended for a while now. Even Linus has recently be quoted complaining about code bloat and how it's making the system slower. I can't even run 11.0 with a GUI on a Powerbook G3/266 with 512MB RAM. It's way too slow. However, a G4/466 runs it just fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 30 September 2009 07:16:13 pm Larry Stotler wrote:
I can't even run 11.0 with a GUI on a Powerbook G3/266 with 512MB RAM. It's way too slow. However, a G4/466 runs it just fine.
what's driving up the hardware requirement: operating system or desktop environment? i was trying to run KDE 4.3 on a slow machine (amd single core, 1,700, 1 GB) and found it way too slow. when i switched over to fluxbox things got much better. that was on openSUSE 11.1 though; haven't tried it on factory yet. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:14 AM, phanisvara das <phani00@gmail.com> wrote:
Desktop. firefox is a particularly bad offender. I rebooted my desktop yesterday, and top shows my top few ram users to be: (These are the standard top columns of:) VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 822m 213m 30m S 29 10.7 25:42.92 firefox 652m 208m 5904 S 16 10.5 22:13.78 Xorg 611m 55m 29m S 1 2.8 0:23.40 plasma-desktop 726m 50m 29m S 0 2.5 0:06.21 krunner I have 2 GB on this box now. I used to have only 1GB and it was always short of ram. ie. It was noticeably slower. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:14 AM, phanisvara das <phani00@gmail.com> wrote:
what's driving up the hardware requirement: operating system or desktop environment?
Good question. Supposedly, KDE has gotten faster and uses less resources than ever. At least since 3.x came out, each version is supposed to be leaner from my understanding. I installed SuSE 7.3 on my Wallstreet and it flew, and all the hardware worked properly out of the box. KDE2 was very responsive, and browsing was acceptable. 11.0/KDE3 was painful.
I ran 11.0/Beta3 on a PowerMac 6500/225 with 128MB RAM(Max) and even using fluxbox or IceWM it wasn't usable. The G3/266 should be twice as fast and the 512MB should have been better. Also, I've ran 11.0/KDE3 on my 1Ghz P3 laptop with 512MB and it was very usable.
that was on openSUSE 11.1 though; haven't tried it on factory yet.
Nor have I. Haven't played with KDE4 much to see if it's getting to the point that I can use it. Planning to tho. 512MB should be fine for most users IMO. If you can run XP with a 1Ghz P3 and 512MB well, then openSUSE should be usable as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Larry Stotler <larrystotler@gmail.com> wrote:
512MB should be fine for most users IMO. If you can run XP with a 1Ghz P3 and 512MB well, then openSUSE should be usable as well.
For untweaked desktop machines reality does not agree. For instance I just launched a empty oowriter instance. No other OO apps running. It is using 140MB or ram. (80mb private ram, 60mb shared ram) I already posted that firefox and Xorg are using over 200mb each. 512MB is just not enough for the apps in OS 11.1 The same is true of XP. In fact, I have a machine that runs XP exclusively and one that runs suse 11.1 exclusively. Both had a GB of ram until 6 months ago. Both were being slowed down by the limited ram. I have upgraded both to 2GB. Neither use much pagefile space at all now. And more importantly, both are noticeably faster. I'd guess that 1.5GB is now the minimum for a untweaked desktop environment, but 2GB is easier to buy/install. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Head of EDD Tape Extraction and Processing team Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer Preservation and Forensic processing of Exchange Repositories White Paper - <http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/tng_whitepaper_fpe.html> The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer ha scritto:
Wow that's just crazy... how that's possible? 1.5 GB ram is too much IMHO -- ------------------------------------------ Andrea Florio QSI International School of Brindisi Sys Admin openSUSE-Education Administrator openSUSE Official Member (anubisg1) Email: andrea@opensuse.org Packman Packaging Team Email: andrea@links2linux.de Web: http://packman.links2linux.org/ Cell: +39-328-7365667 ------------------------------------------
Greg Freemyer wrote:
My five year old has a PC with 2.6GHz P4 and 512M - it does work very well, but then he's not exactly into running OO and FF and Java and lots of other stuff at the same time. I also think 512M is too little.
I'd guess that 1.5GB is now the minimum for a untweaked desktop environment, but 2GB is easier to buy/install.
My office machines still only have 1Gb, and that's entirely reasonable. I'm sure newer machines will come with 2Gb though. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.5°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Op 01-10-09 17:26, Greg Freemyer schreef:
I can confirm this. With 512 you need a (sw) ram-defragmenter to keep the, well, 'speed', if you can call it that. I used an amd64 with 512, and it crashed XP without warning. Adding another GB solved that problem, and it became much faster. 2GB i use now with AMDx2 64, and additional 753MB swap, but i am not sure that it is enough to hibernate. When i tested that a while ago, it went wrong, have not tried it since, never use it anyhow. Multitasking is only full scale possible, if all the apps have sufficient room, to be functional, there is nothing you can do about that. The newest hardware uses 4GB, but DDR3 seems to have its own defragmenter, and does not need this size. DDR2 Dual-channel 512 (=2x 256) is by far the fastest, but without sufficient video-ram (256 min.) not enough to play a real game. Than you need to add an extra GB. Which does not have to be Dual-channel. The board has to support Dual-channel though.. Don't forget that the resolutions we have now, take a lot of pixels to render. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.31-8-desktop x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-SFN1 Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 7 (x86_64) KDE: 4.3.1 (KDE 4.3.1) "release 2" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 October 2009 17:02:00 Larry Stotler wrote:
Good question. Supposedly, KDE has gotten faster and uses less resources than ever.
I have seen benchmarks that clearly show KDE4 is less memory intensive than previous version. However (there's always on of these isn't there?) this was for early versions, and these made no effort to show the CPU resources used (which in my opinion is now considerable). Of course there was a refactoring round/release of KDE3 at some point if I recall correctly. Perhaps it's time for a cleanup in the KDE4 codebase? Though I suspect certain prominent KDE4 plasma devs will forge on with so much new code for 4.4 that we'll all be swimming in CPU quagmire for the forseaable future, sadly. Bottom line? KDE4: Uses less RAM (which nobody cares about), uses more CPU (which everyone cares about). -- “Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.” ☘ Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 October 2009 03:49:13 am Graham Anderson wrote:
Of course there was a refactoring round/release of KDE3 at some point if I recall correctly. Perhaps it's time for a cleanup in the KDE4 codebase?
my experience with KDE 4.1 - 3 is that it's gotten a lot more efficient recently. kwin & plasma used to run away with my CPU frequently, but that's a lot better now.
no experience with 4.4 yet; according to aron seigos blog <http://aseigo.blogspot.com/> they're putting effort into keeping it civil. according to my experience with plasma so far, i have no reason to doubt him.
Bottom line? KDE4: Uses less RAM (which nobody cares about)
well, people who run machines with 512 MB do...
uses more CPU (which everyone cares about)
true. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 October 2009 01:03:59 phanisvara das wrote:
well, people who run machines with 512 MB do...
And there are suitable alternatives for these people. Contemporary desktops should not be held back by limited resource devices or pseudo Luddites. Neither should the adoption of the contemporary desktops be held back by "certain prominent plasma devs" who are more than eager to thrash your CPU with new code rather than commit to a much needed stabilisation/refactoring release. -- “Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.” ☘ Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 02:14 +0200, Graham Anderson wrote:
And there are suitable alternatives for these people.
Such as... pen-and-paper, abacus?
Contemporary desktops should not be held back by limited resource devices or pseudo Luddites.
People writing bloatware, that claim even more resources without adding functionality _or_ the chance to alternatives should be flogged in public. <<<<<< sorry, typo, They should apply for a job at M$ I'm not going to install SuSElinux_7.1, that would run in 64MB (yes, you read it correct: a humble sixtyfour MB) WITH KDE, allbeit KDE1. OTOH, i tried both 11.1 (preload off) and ubuntu_9.04. Without any applications running yet, both installations were using swap very intensively. Not advisable with swap on flash-disk. Hans -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Op 02-10-09 09:59, Hans Witvliet schreef:
If it is DDR3, it could be enough, but i guess not with every app running at the same time...
-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.31-8-desktop x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-SFN1 Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 7 (x86_64) KDE: 4.3.1 (KDE 4.3.1) "release 2" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hans Witvliet wrote:
I'm not going to install SuSElinux_7.1, that would run in 64MB (yes, you read it correct: a humble sixtyfour MB) WITH KDE, allbeit KDE1.
Oh, SuSE Linux 7.1 would fine run in just 24Mb. I had it running as a firewall for 6-7 years on a 486 with 24Mb. I think a couple of people have already pointed it out, but even so - it's not right pointing the finger at openSUSE as a distro, when the resource consumption is really caused by modern applications such as Firefox etc. I recently installed openSUSE 11.1 on a Pentium90 with 256Mb. After installation I reduced the RAM to 96Mb - the system is running fine. It serves no practical purpose of course, but it shows that openSUSE 11.1 will run quite well even on that very minimal hardware - but it won't run KDE nor Firefox. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.6°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hey, Le vendredi 02 octobre 2009, à 11:08 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
I think this discussion is interesting, but it doesn't really belong to this mailing list where it can unfortunately hide some important discussion about Factory itself (especially with the current "Status: distribution" subject of the mail thread). I'd suggest you continue on some other mailing list, like the opensuse@ one. (replying to the latest mail I received on this thread, so that's really nothing against Per or Hans, or anybody else who participated in this thread) Thanks, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Vincent Untz wrote:
You're absolutely right. +1. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.3°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 October 2009 09:59:44 Hans Witvliet wrote:
Such as... pen-and-paper, abacus?
Stop being a pedant. If you have an older machine with limited resources you have a few choices. There are lightweight desktop environments such as fluxbox and xfce but I think you probably already know about these. You have no right to expect that a personal computer will run *all* software written in the next 20 years efficiently, or at all.
People writing bloatware, that claim even more resources without adding functionality or the chance to alternatives should be flogged in public.
No, people using free software then bitching because your computer is too old to run it efficiently should be flogged in public. Nobody is forcing you to use this software. Either use software that it *can* run efficiently, write your own software, upgrade your hardware or STFU. -- “Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.” ☘ Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/10/1 Graham Anderson <graham.anderson@gmail.com>:
Hi, Andrea Florio is working on a lightweight desktop for 11.2 called LXDE: http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/anubisg1/ which maybe an interesting alternative for KDE/GNOME for you. Regard, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I'd agree. I'm running KDE 4.3.1 on an EeePC Netbook (1005HA-H) with 2GB RAM and it's fine. I can watch full screen video, and have Compiz turned on with no real noticeable impact on performance. Admitedly though, Gnome does run slightly better than KDE4.3.1 on this machine.... but only marginally... not enoguh to make a real difference in day-to-day stuff. I'm hoping to try out 11.2 on this netbook :-) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
I've been running 11.0 on EeePC 900/1GB RAM for about a year. I installed 11.2 next to it on an SD card (dual boot) to see if I will upgrade and install it on the internal 16 GB SSD. So far it looks good and I wonder if I will change over even before the official release, it's so great :) 11.0 runs KDE 3.5 and 11.2 of course 4.3. Both are fine and I can do all those things above, too. In addition I connect with FreeNX to my home server as well as I mount the home server's disks over sshfs. That way I can listen to the music on the server with Amarok and watch video from there using smplayer most of the time, but also vlc and such. I cut out the commercials and convert to 500 bitrate to be able to watch them over UMTS. I use FreeNX, ProjectX and HandBrake on the server to do those things. Then I mount over sshfs and just enjoy films while waiting for customers in my cab. I'm using Huawei 169G to connect, my bandwith is 1 mbps. Vahis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
My computer has an Alps touchpad that actually works better using the Synaptics driver. Something in my hands force me to turn off tapping on all touchpads, no matter the OS. In 11.1, I could change the driver with the YaST GUI and disable tapping using a MaxTapTime parameter of 0 in xorg.conf. In 11.2, xorg.conf has disappeared, and I have not located where the parameter to disable tapping is located. Any suggestions? I have a workaround that involves copying xorg.conf from my 11.1 installation, but would like to know the approved method. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 11:25:41AM -0500, Larry Finger wrote:
Either use synclient (preferred, works immediately) or add the option to /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/11-x11-synaptics.fdi If you do the latter you probably need to remove /var/cache/hald/fdi-cache and restart hald. Of course you need to restart your Xserver. Best regards, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 10/02/2009 12:03 PM, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
The synclient method worked for me. Thanks, Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 02 octobre 2009, à 11:25 -0500, Larry Finger a écrit :
If you use GNOME, you can change this in the preference dialog for the mouse. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:25:41 -0500 Larry Finger <Larry.Finger@lwfinger.net> wrote:
In 11.2, xorg.conf has disappeared,
if you run SaX2 - hit 'OK' and select 'Test' and afterwards 'Save' - your xconf.conf file will be created. Regards JAmes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Vahis <waxborg@gmail.com> wrote:
In case that sounds too weird I thought I'd indicate I had the same usecase in mind, albeit a different context - NX access from a netbook using minimal USB boot. I think slitaz (<30MB) http://www.slitaz.org/ is the smallest that will work, but openSUSE-LXDE (>400MB). Although the slitaz footprint will expand once the NX packages are installed on the USB. I suppose all these uses and LXDE are pointing to uses for something like an openSUSE version of thinstation (http://www.thinstation.org/). HTH anyone else contemplating such use cases. Mark
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Larry Stotler wrote:
Could be, but it worked fine with M6 (previous milestone).
There are many things for which such a system is perfectly well suited. I have a test-system cluster made up of 2+4 P3/500 machines, it does a fine job. Granted, for personal/workstation use, I would also deem a P3/500 to be way below reasonable spec. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Anymore that is the case. 10.2 ran just fine on my Dual Xeon/500 system. No idea how well 11.2 will run. Need to install it to see. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Tue, 29 Sep 2009, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On Tuesday 29 September 2009 19:23:01 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
You must be kidding. Don't let you bore so far. Viele Gruesse Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) -- Eberhard Moenkeberg Arbeitsgruppe IT-Infrastruktur E-Mail: emoenke@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1551 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Goettingen (GWDG) Am Fassberg 11, 37077 Goettingen URL: http://www.gwdg.de E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1510 Fax: +49 (0)551 201-2150 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Neumair Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dipl.-Kfm. Markus Hoppe Sitz der Gesellschaft: Goettingen Registergericht: Goettingen Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> [09-29-09 11:39]:
Well put and very accurate. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/30/2009 07:12 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
So I expect that you will be putting forward in the very near future a dictum to be adopted by Novell - sorry, the *Community* - called *The openSUSE Patriot Act* which will muzzle anyone speaking honestly about openSUSE and its deficiencies? Just stick to being a Don Quixote about top-posting and quoting too much of a post when one replies to a post. Commenting about those issues are your only forte. BC -- Never run yourself down - let other people do it instead. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Basil Chupin wrote:
We already have that. Its called the openSUSE Guiding Principles. If i may quote part of it: "... respect for other persons and their contributions, for other opinions and beliefs. We listen to arguments and address problems in a constructive and open way. We believe that a diverse community based on mutual respect is the base for a creative and productive environment enabling the project to be truly successful. We don't tolerate social discrimination and aim at creating an environment where people feel accepted and safe from offense." You frequently fail to do this. You are always very provocative and mostly just offensive. I don't know a single email from you that has any positive content about the openSUSE distribution, the project or the people doing the work. You value nothing we do. You only despise us for our errors. Most people ignore you because they feel demeaned by your statements. And this will only get worse. You should seriously think about other ways to contribute or about leaving this project. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 29 Sep 2009 16:08:36 Basil Chupin wrote:
Well i just got to say it when certain people said i was alone in the stuff i had been talking about in both KDE and OpenSuse in general once again they have been proved Very wrong . If certain people care to look back they will see i did say this will NOT go away and i was right was i not , People are not happy with the slapshot way things are going on some devs (Will Stephenson i think it was) have taken things on board and are to be praised but some well nuff said and before any bright herbert says learn to code i have tried it is just not something that happens for me . Pete .
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:
Well, things can change, can't they? And things have changed a _lot_ since November 2003 when the acquisition was announced. One of those changes being that now _everyone_ can contribute, and increasingly easily so.
Basil, it occurs to me that openSUSE FACTORY simply might not be the best choice for you. I am wondering whether openSUSE 11.1 (and 11.2 when it's been released or closer to the actual release) might be the better option? You mention that you were a happy SUSE Linux user eagerly awaiting the next release, and I think if you go for openSUSE releases instead of snapshots you may have a much better experience. Don't get me wrong, we in the openSUSE project also gladly welcome testers and users of our FACTORY distribution. It's just not fair to compare one with the other. Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer E gp@novell.com SUSE Linux Products GmbH Director Product Management F +49(911)74053-483 HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg) SUSE Linux Enterprise, openSUSE, Appliances GF Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Ubuntu (using 9.04, x86 version) also has this - some packages are supported by Canonical (*officially*) [1] till the time the particular Ubuntu-version is supported, whereas some packages [2] are not supported, these being third-party compiled & hosted mostly at Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/+tour/index), rarely at another blog/website (such as sourceforge.net). Launchpad may correspond roughly-speaking to the OBS (oS Build Service) except that it hosts packages mainly in .deb format : whereas http://software.opensuse.org/search - the OBS hosts packages for a number of popular Linux distributions in addition to openSUSE. I find a greater proportion of packages to be natively supported in Ubuntu as compared to openSUSE. Jay [1] http://www.imagebam.com/image/aaefd550495213 [2] http://www.imagebam.com/image/cab45f50495216 -- Linux User 483705 | openSUSE 11.1, Ubuntu 9.04 (i686) w/ Windows XP Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 29 September 2009 15:31:12 Basil Chupin wrote:
Now for this particular issue, would you mind filing a bug (enhancement) so as not to display the information about package supportability on openSUSE? Or to display it in some better way as it is pretty much useless in its current form. To explain in more detail, 'Supportability: unknown' does not mean that the package is unsupported. It only means that openSUSE repositories most likely do not contain metadata about package supportability and I doubt they ever will. This is because data such as 'this package has L[123] support (no customer support, respectively)' are irrelevant to openSUSE users as (unlike enterprise products) there is no such thing like L[123] support for openSUSE. Thus it makes little sense to show that bit of information in the package description. hB. -- \\\\\ Katarina Machalkova \\\\\\\__o YaST developer __\\\\\\\'/_ & hedgehog painter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/29/2009 05:38 AM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Running m8 acpi off no good have to power off acpi on no good have to power off acpi on for second try booting works this time evvery time I boot with acpi=off I have to power off with power button then boot twice first time with a forced shutdown i.e by using the power button then booting again then my box boots into graphical just fine -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> [09-29-09 05:39]:
I am running MS8 but the only boot problem I have experienced is repeated ntoices of fsck problems on my lvm partition causing the system to drop to maintenance mode and not continue booting. fsck.ext3 -a /dev/mapper/lvm-name shows no errors, but subsequent reboots still fail, falling again to the maintenance mode, init 1. Only able to boot by commenting out that device line in /etc/fstab and after booting, uncommenting the line and manually mounting the lvm drive. Is this bug reporatable and against what package? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag 29 September 2009 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
Is this bug reporatable and against what package?
No idea. I have no experience with lvm. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
I guess that means not much hope of having anything done about this one: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538351 ? /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag 29 September 2009 schrieb Per Jessen:
You can also do what Nikanth presented on the conference: http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/7/71/Buggykernel.pdf If you need help, subscribe to opensuse-kernel@opensuse.org Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/29/2009 08:13 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Stay with it, Per. The people Novell/MS has now kept to keep openSUSE running have lost the plot :-( : a multitude of repositories for this-and-that and run by this-and-that-person; without any explanation for a user as to which repo. does what and why. Nobody is really in control, and the whole thing is going arse-up. And if you look at any application name in YaST2 Software Manager you will see that each entry (from all the ones I have looked at) show the entry, "Supportability: unknown". Now, this is most telling because the YaST2 rpm itself, which I understand is something written by the SuSE people for SuSE/openSUSE, has this description (Supportability: unknown) attached to it! The question therefore has to be asked: what *DO* Novell/openSUSE staff contribute to the openSUSE distribution - apart from "You will have to fix the bug"?
/Per
BC -- Never run yourself down - let other people do it instead. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Why do we keep considering Novell anything else than just a community member with big commitment? I think I'm allowed to say that, even if I am not a Novell employee, I feel this to be 'my' distribution. I feel as an integral part of the community and participate in different ways, offering a lot of time. As such: Novell offers the same to the openSUSE distribution as other contributors (I'd say even more: nobody else I've talked to offered us a BuildService and the infrastructure for example) About the case itself: Per is doing a great job in submitting reports and as I've seen he's also one that follows up on additional queries (not everybody does so unfortunately... Very often you see a 'file and bye' approach). But wouldn't it be great if we could just convince Per to go one step further? It's not that he is 'requested' to do so, but very often just giving often enough a hint in the right direction motivates people to look at something new / more. Don't take the 'help fix it' as offensive. It's a rather natural way of 'suggesting' that everybody can learn something new. Of course it might well be that Per does not have the time to invest in this specific case, or not the will. BUT maybe he is willing and just does not know how to get started for such a case? Why would we (community) not want to have him help out with all his knowledge, which, as hopefully nobody doubts, is of great value? Take this as a call for contribution: we all can help, in whatever way you can even think of... Programming / fixing code bugs is one way, reporting another appreciated. And many more tasks can be listed.... very often the step from reporting to fixing is actually not that big a gap as expected (not every fix involves code changes for example... ). Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (31)
-
Andrea Florio -
Basil Chupin -
Clayton -
Dale Ritchey -
Dominique Leuenberger -
Eberhard Moenkeberg -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Graham Anderson -
Greg Freemyer -
Hans Witvliet -
Hans-Peter Holler -
Henne Vogelsang -
James PEARSON -
Jay Mistry -
Katarina Machalkova -
Larry Finger -
Larry Stotler -
Lubos Lunak -
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti -
Mark V -
Michael Schroeder -
Oddball -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Peter Nikolic -
phanisvara das -
Stefan Dirsch -
Stephan Kulow -
Vahis -
Vincent Untz -
Wolfgang Rosenauer