[opensuse-factory] Gnome 2
Hi! Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:43:50 +0400
Ilya Chernykh
Hi!
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Why? If your so keen, create your own OBS instance and build yourself? To be honest, for the small investment of $$$ for SLED with just updates, I can use a supported release of Gnome 2.x for more years to come.... -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop up 11 days 3:49, 3 users, load average: 0.67, 0.35, 0.28 GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 280.13 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 19:43 +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Hi!
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
You could try this yourself: create an own project, link all the packages and have it build against Factory. I did this now to get a first glimpse and the result can be seen at: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=home%3Adimstar% 3AGS2.32 => Now, is it worthy to invest time in this? If you feel like, you're most welcome to do so. I'll gladly get you started in any way possible. Once you have a branch that works fine we can consider merging this back into G:S:2.32 for general use. Have a lot of fun, Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 October 2011 22:18:14 Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
You could try this yourself: create an own project, link all the packages and have it build against Factory.
I did this now to get a first glimpse and the result can be seen at: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=home%3Adimstar% 3AGS2.32
=> Now, is it worthy to invest time in this? If you feel like, you're most welcome to do so. I'll gladly get you started in any way possible.
Let's wait and see how much will rebuild.
Once you have a branch that works fine we can consider merging this back into G:S:2.32 for general use.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 23:06 +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Friday 07 October 2011 22:18:14 Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
You could try this yourself: create an own project, link all the packages and have it build against Factory.
I did this now to get a first glimpse and the result can be seen at: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=home%3Adimstar% 3AGS2.32
=> Now, is it worthy to invest time in this? If you feel like, you're most welcome to do so. I'll gladly get you started in any way possible.
Let's wait and see how much will rebuild.
Once you have a branch that works fine we can consider merging this back into G:S:2.32 for general use.
succeeded: 58 failed: 75 unresolvable: 70 Feel free to work on that one! If you want you can branch an own prj or, to save build power, I could also grant you rights on my branch directly (then all the failures and succeeds are already there at least). Have a lot of fun! Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 10 October 2011 11:20:56 Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
You could try this yourself: create an own project, link all the packages and have it build against Factory.
I did this now to get a first glimpse and the result can be seen at: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=home%3Adimstar% 3AGS2.32
=> Now, is it worthy to invest time in this? If you feel like, you're most welcome to do so. I'll gladly get you started in any way possible.
Let's wait and see how much will rebuild.
Once you have a branch that works fine we can consider merging this back into G:S:2.32 for general use.
succeeded: 58 failed: 75 unresolvable: 70
I looked through the errors and many of them are easily solvable such as "Requires: licenses" and the kind. The unresolvable packages are just those dependent on filed ones.
Feel free to work on that one! If you want you can branch an own prj or, to save build power, I could also grant you rights on my branch directly (then all the failures and succeeds are already there at least).
Have a lot of fun!
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 13:21 +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Monday 10 October 2011 11:20:56 Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
You could try this yourself: create an own project, link all the packages and have it build against Factory.
I did this now to get a first glimpse and the result can be seen at: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=home%3Adimstar% 3AGS2.32
=> Now, is it worthy to invest time in this? If you feel like, you're most welcome to do so. I'll gladly get you started in any way possible.
Let's wait and see how much will rebuild.
Once you have a branch that works fine we can consider merging this back into G:S:2.32 for general use.
succeeded: 58 failed: 75 unresolvable: 70
I looked through the errors and many of them are easily solvable such as "Requires: licenses" and the kind. The unresolvable packages are just those dependent on filed ones.
As said: feel free to work on this. I have limited time capacity and will not invest more time on this. My primary goal for openSUSE is to have a stable support for GNOME 3.2 in 12.1. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:27, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger
As said: feel free to work on this. I have limited time capacity and will not invest more time on this. My primary goal for openSUSE is to have a stable support for GNOME 3.2 in 12.1.
Which is as it should be. The core of openSUSE supports and provides the current/leading versions of the applications. If community members want to stay with older versions of software, then they can step up, use the openSUSE Build service and create a Community repo. KDE3 is an example of this. Gnome2 has to be the same. Gnome3 is the here and now and what we (as a project) should ship as part of the next release... if a small group of Gnome users want to stick with the old software, then they can, but they must support it themselves. The harsh reality is that like KDE3, Gnome2 is not maintained upstream anymore. The beauty of the openSUSE Build system is... if you want to stick with older obsolete software, you can :-) but you have to maintain it yourself. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 10 October 2011 13:35:59 C wrote:
As said: feel free to work on this. I have limited time capacity and will not invest more time on this. My primary goal for openSUSE is to have a stable support for GNOME 3.2 in 12.1.
Which is as it should be.
The core of openSUSE supports and provides the current/leading versions of the applications. If community members want to stay with older versions of software, then they can step up, use the openSUSE Build service and create a Community repo. KDE3 is an example of this. Gnome2 has to be the same. Gnome3 is the here and now and what we (as a project) should ship as part of the next release... if a small group of Gnome users want to stick with the old software, then they can, but they must support it themselves.
The harsh reality is that like KDE3, Gnome2 is not maintained upstream anymore. The beauty of the openSUSE Build system is... if you want to stick with older obsolete software, you can :-) but you have to maintain it yourself.
I think providing it for openSUSE is much easier than for other distributions exactly thanks to OBS. I also recall a topic on the openSUSE forum from April where people were asked whether they want Gnome2 in 12.1 or not. The poll ended even, although I suspect the majority of the voters did not use Gnome at all and just feared that this will take developer's power from KDE or other software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, October 10, 2011 04:51:37 AM Ilya Chernykh wrote:
I also recall a topic on the openSUSE forum from April where people were asked whether they want Gnome2 in 12.1 or not. The poll ended even,
I bet that poll didn't ask responders to take maintenance of Gnome2, which will give very few answers, if any :) It is easy to wish something that cost you no more then to say "yes". People like you that take time to make things happen are not that easy to find.
although I suspect the majority of the voters did not use Gnome at all and just feared that this will take developer's power from KDE or other software.
Fear that development power can be moved from KDE to use for Gnome is kind of funny. Development is not car driving, so you just sit, check commands in few minutes and you can go :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 11 October 2011 04:42:16 Rajko M. wrote:
I also recall a topic on the openSUSE forum from April where people were asked whether they want Gnome2 in 12.1 or not. The poll ended even,
I bet that poll didn't ask responders to take maintenance of Gnome2, which will give very few answers, if any :)
The poll was by developers who asked users. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 07 octobre 2011, à 19:43 +0400, Ilya Chernykh a écrit :
Hi!
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Just wondering: why would you want that? If you're interested in having a GNOME 2 look and feel in Factory, then look at the fallback mode in GNOME 3 -- it's a good start, and only needs some little bits to be really nice. (this was mentioned several times in the past, fwiw) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 10 October 2011 11:24:00 Vincent Untz wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Just wondering: why would you want that? If you're interested in having a GNOME 2 look and feel in Factory, then look at the fallback mode in GNOME 3 -- it's a good start, and only needs some little bits to be really nice.
(this was mentioned several times in the past, fwiw)
Look, Vincent, there was even Gnome 2.30 for those who prefer it to 2.32 and Gnome 2.30 for those who prefer it to Gnome 2.30. I think the change from 2.32 to 3.0 is much greater. Regarding fallback, I did not try this, but I was told that QtCurve will not work with it as well as gtk-qt-engine. Also I was told anecdotes that it has the clock exactly in the center without ability to move it and other curious stories. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le lundi 10 octobre 2011, à 13:24 +0400, Ilya Chernykh a écrit :
On Monday 10 October 2011 11:24:00 Vincent Untz wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Just wondering: why would you want that? If you're interested in having a GNOME 2 look and feel in Factory, then look at the fallback mode in GNOME 3 -- it's a good start, and only needs some little bits to be really nice.
(this was mentioned several times in the past, fwiw)
Look, Vincent, there was even Gnome 2.30 for those who prefer it to 2.32 and Gnome 2.30 for those who prefer it to Gnome 2.30. I think the change from 2.32 to 3.0 is much greater.
I think you misunderstood how we use GNOME:STABLE:*: we never had GNOME:STABLE:2.30 as a way to downgrade from 2.32; it was available for 11.3 so that 11.3 users could enjoy the latest GNOME 2.30.x releases (instead of staying with GNOME 2.30.0 that was in 11.3). We also made GNOME:STABLE:2.32 so that 11.3 users could have GNOME 2.32 if they wanted to upgrade from 2.30. Basically, we never allowed users to downgrade GNOME through those repos.
Regarding fallback, I did not try this, but I was told that QtCurve will not work with it as well as gtk-qt-engine. Also I was told anecdotes that it has the clock exactly in the center without ability to move it and other curious stories.
You can move the clock, and I'd be happy to hear the other curious stories -- a lot of them are unfortunately misinformed. However, the QtCurve/gtk-qt-engine issue might be real, indeed. But I don't think this issue alone is worth the effort maintaining GNOME 2.x for openSUSE, while upstream stopped maintaining it and everybody has moved on. This is just my opinion, of course, and everybody is free to do that -- it's free software, after all. Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 10.10.2011 11:31, Vincent Untz wrote:
You can move the clock, and I'd be happy to hear the other curious stories -- a lot of them are unfortunately misinformed.
* you cannot move the panel to the left or right edge * you cannot disable the top (or bottom) panel * you cannot change the insanely big height of the panel Nothing I had tried for myself, but 3 of the curious stories :-) seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 12 octobre 2011, à 19:28 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 10.10.2011 11:31, Vincent Untz wrote:
You can move the clock, and I'd be happy to hear the other curious stories -- a lot of them are unfortunately misinformed.
* you cannot move the panel to the left or right edge * you cannot disable the top (or bottom) panel
Press alt when right-clicking. There you go.
* you cannot change the insanely big height of the panel
The height depends on the font size (make your font smaller in gnome-tweak-tool) and your theme (unlucky, we don't ship any other theme right now for GTK+ 3). Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, now I actually tried GNOME 3.2 (with openSUSE Factory GNOME Live CD). First - it does not start without "nomodeset" on an intel 855GM. Is there a boot parameter to force GNOME fallback mode without disabling modeset? Even the GDM fails "something has happened - please contact your system administrator". It should try fallback mode if it cannot start the blingbling mode. On 12.10.2011 19:34, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le mercredi 12 octobre 2011, à 19:28 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 10.10.2011 11:31, Vincent Untz wrote:
You can move the clock, and I'd be happy to hear the other curious stories -- a lot of them are unfortunately misinformed.
* you cannot move the panel to the left or right edge * you cannot disable the top (or bottom) panel
Press alt when right-clicking. There you go.
Ok, this works.
* you cannot change the insanely big height of the panel
The height depends on the font size (make your font smaller in gnome-tweak-tool) and your theme (unlucky, we don't ship any other theme right now for GTK+ 3).
Unfortunately there is no tool to do that. Nothing with "appearance" found in system-settings. Also nothing wiht "tweak". I guess that would also be needed to reduce the insanely big window-decorations (try this on an 1024x768 display, about half of your screen is filled by GNOME. Nothing left to do real work). Probably even better on a 1024x600 netbook... :-) Ha, now I found the tweak tool. So now advanced critcism: * even with unuably small fonts (scaling factor to 0.5), the panel is still the same size. I can now set the panel to 19 pixels (still at least 3 too much ;) but it stays at ~32 (it only gets bigger if I increase the size above 32 pixels. I guess this is because of the Icons. I have no idea how a non-superexpert user would change this. My customers (family) would kill me for such a setting: HUGE icons / panels and unreadable fonts. * the same for the window decoration: it shrinked a little bit with the unreadable font, but it is still at least two times too big. I guess it is about ~25 pixels, but it should be <= 12. * you cannot resize the tweak tool window, but the contents do not fit into the window. * alt-right mouse does not resize windows This is all in fallback mode. And this is way worse than GNOME2 ever was. And GNOME2 is still much worse than XFCE which "just works". You can even do "maximize horizontally" and "maximize vertically" like in every other desktop environment ;-) so no, this GNOME3 will probably have to go through a few revisions to be suitable to non-super-expert users :-). Let's hope it does not end like KDE4 which - in its 8th iteration - is still almost as bad as in the first try 4.0... Oh -- requiring tracker to be installed (since a recent update, I can no longer uninstall it and I need to check if it is actually started and if I have to get rid of it somehow) is almost as "funny" as the old beagle or KDE4's insistence on starting up nepomuk, strigi, akonadi or similar crap. Good luck, seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 16.10.2011 13:42, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Hi,
now I actually tried GNOME 3.2 (with openSUSE Factory GNOME Live CD).
First - it does not start without "nomodeset" on an intel 855GM. Is there a boot parameter to force GNOME fallback mode without disabling modeset?
This is actually worse than it might seem, because also GDM does not start...
Even the GDM fails "something has happened - please contact your system administrator". It should try fallback mode if it cannot start the blingbling mode.
...with the same error, and I have no means to force fallback mode on GDM AFAICT. Now tested on another machine (radeon mobility 9600 / RV350) where all you get is a totally garbled display with moving color noise on it. The fallback mode should definitely be default with the non-fallback mode only be enabled on request of the user or on whitelisted known good machines. Best regards, seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, October 16, 2011 08:15:58 AM Stefan Seyfried wrote:
The fallback mode should definitely be default with the non-fallback mode only be enabled on request of the user or on whitelisted known good machines.
Which reminds me of other software with black and white lists that only their developers know where they are and what is listed there. Guys that volunteer as support ("helpdesk") to new users, often waste their time trying to debug blacklisted items. Collecting such white and black lists, for instance in the wiki, can save time and frustration for both, users and helpers. I know that those lists are spread all over software pieces that comprise distribution, so it is not easy task to collect them, but any bit of information that removes uncertainty is welcome. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Stefan, Thanks for the feedback, a few comments: Le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, à 13:42 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
Hi,
now I actually tried GNOME 3.2 (with openSUSE Factory GNOME Live CD).
First - it does not start without "nomodeset" on an intel 855GM. Is there a boot parameter to force GNOME fallback mode without disabling modeset?
Even the GDM fails "something has happened - please contact your system administrator". It should try fallback mode if it cannot start the blingbling mode.
There's no way to disable the fallback mode with a boot parameter. I'm not sure it's the right way to do things, although we could probably support that. FWIW, there is a small tool being run to detect whether the fallback mode has to be used or not. There's a blacklist mechanism in there, and we could add Intel 830-865 there (I see Fedora does this).
On 12.10.2011 19:34, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le mercredi 12 octobre 2011, à 19:28 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 10.10.2011 11:31, Vincent Untz wrote: * you cannot change the insanely big height of the panel
The height depends on the font size (make your font smaller in gnome-tweak-tool) and your theme (unlucky, we don't ship any other theme right now for GTK+ 3).
[...]
So now advanced critcism: * even with unuably small fonts (scaling factor to 0.5), the panel is still the same size. I can now set the panel to 19 pixels (still at least 3 too much ;) but it stays at ~32 (it only gets bigger if I increase the size above 32 pixels. I guess this is because of the Icons. I have no idea how a non-superexpert user would change this. My customers (family) would kill me for such a setting: HUGE icons / panels and unreadable fonts.
Interesting, that's a bug caused by the user menu. Will see if I can fix it.
* the same for the window decoration: it shrinked a little bit with the unreadable font, but it is still at least two times too big. I guess it is about ~25 pixels, but it should be <= 12.
Just tried it, feels okay to me. Smaller would make the buttons hard to reach, and I think that's the upstream rationale for this.
* you cannot resize the tweak tool window, but the contents do not fit into the window.
Yeah, this is a known issue: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649520
* alt-right mouse does not resize windows
Did this work under GNOME 2?
This is all in fallback mode. And this is way worse than GNOME2 ever was. And GNOME2 is still much worse than XFCE which "just works". You can even do "maximize horizontally" and "maximize vertically" like in every other desktop environment ;-)
You can have that by editing your keybindings in the system settings and add a keybinding for those actions. (I regularly use maximize vertically) [...]
Oh -- requiring tracker to be installed (since a recent update, I can no longer uninstall it and I need to check if it is actually started and if I have to get rid of it somehow) is almost as "funny" as the old beagle or KDE4's insistence on starting up nepomuk, strigi, akonadi or similar crap.
You can disable tracker in its preferences. Any reason you have to get rid of it if it's not running? (I see there's actually a packaging bug where the main package is brought in because of some Requires -- without the bug, you would be able to only get the tracker libraries). Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le lundi 17 octobre 2011, à 11:06 +0200, Vincent Untz a écrit :
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, à 13:42 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
So now advanced critcism: * even with unuably small fonts (scaling factor to 0.5), the panel is still the same size. I can now set the panel to 19 pixels (still at least 3 too much ;) but it stays at ~32 (it only gets bigger if I increase the size above 32 pixels. I guess this is because of the Icons. I have no idea how a non-superexpert user would change this. My customers (family) would kill me for such a setting: HUGE icons / panels and unreadable fonts.
Interesting, that's a bug caused by the user menu. Will see if I can fix it.
Fixed in git, and I'll add the patch to Factory. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 17.10.2011 11:06, Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi Stefan,
Thanks for the feedback, a few comments:
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, à 13:42 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
Hi,
now I actually tried GNOME 3.2 (with openSUSE Factory GNOME Live CD).
First - it does not start without "nomodeset" on an intel 855GM. Is there a boot parameter to force GNOME fallback mode without disabling modeset?
Even the GDM fails "something has happened - please contact your system administrator". It should try fallback mode if it cannot start the blingbling mode.
There's no way to disable the fallback mode with a boot parameter. I'm not sure it's the right way to do things, although we could probably support that.
I can always boot with "nomodeset", but that disables 3d completely on all my gfx cards. And in gdm I found no way to select fallback mode (but I have not looked too hard, I must confess). So for the user session, fallback mode can be selected, but there should be some way to also do this for GDM. Having a "GNOME3_fallbackmode" kernel parameter does not seem too bad for that as it will enable people to actually boot into their desktop and it can easily found in /proc/cmdline.
FWIW, there is a small tool being run to detect whether the fallback mode has to be used or not. There's a blacklist mechanism in there, and we could add Intel 830-865 there (I see Fedora does this).
And Radeon RV350 - this does start, but with completely garbled (colour noise with moving color noise blocks) display, at least with a 1400x1050 LCD.
On 12.10.2011 19:34, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le mercredi 12 octobre 2011, à 19:28 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 10.10.2011 11:31, Vincent Untz wrote: * you cannot change the insanely big height of the panel
The height depends on the font size (make your font smaller in gnome-tweak-tool) and your theme (unlucky, we don't ship any other theme right now for GTK+ 3).
[...]
So now advanced critcism: * even with unuably small fonts (scaling factor to 0.5), the panel is still the same size. I can now set the panel to 19 pixels (still at least 3 too much ;) but it stays at ~32 (it only gets bigger if I increase the size above 32 pixels. I guess this is because of the Icons. I have no idea how a non-superexpert user would change this. My customers (family) would kill me for such a setting: HUGE icons / panels and unreadable fonts.
Interesting, that's a bug caused by the user menu. Will see if I can fix it.
Thanks for fixing.
* the same for the window decoration: it shrinked a little bit with the unreadable font, but it is still at least two times too big. I guess it is about ~25 pixels, but it should be <= 12.
Just tried it, feels okay to me. Smaller would make the buttons hard to reach, and I think that's the upstream rationale for this.
Should I send upstream a 1024x768 15" LCD? Those are still in use, even if many people nowadays have 24" full-HD displays. And you need every pixel on such a display. Or they should simply try it with a 1024x600 netbook. Having the default big does not matter - but being able to set a sane size does IMVHO.
* you cannot resize the tweak tool window, but the contents do not fit into the window.
Yeah, this is a known issue: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649520
Ok. This is also an issue in YaST during install (unrelated to GNOME of course and not yet reported because I'm on vacation).
* alt-right mouse does not resize windows
Did this work under GNOME 2?
I managed to get GNOME 2 to do this with some gnome-config-editor tool. .gconf/apps/metacity/general/%gconf.xml: <entry name="resize_with_right_button" mtime="1296814915" type="bool" value="true"/> Not default, though ;-)
This is all in fallback mode. And this is way worse than GNOME2 ever was. And GNOME2 is still much worse than XFCE which "just works". You can even do "maximize horizontally" and "maximize vertically" like in every other desktop environment ;-)
You can have that by editing your keybindings in the system settings and add a keybinding for those actions. (I regularly use maximize vertically)
Yes, I know. But every other windowmanager / desktop environment just does this by right/mid-clicking on the maximize button. Even compiz does that, just not metacity, gnome-shell (and windows).
Oh -- requiring tracker to be installed (since a recent update, I can no longer uninstall it and I need to check if it is actually started and if I have to get rid of it somehow) is almost as "funny" as the old beagle or KDE4's insistence on starting up nepomuk, strigi, akonadi or similar crap.
You can disable tracker in its preferences. Any reason you have to get rid of it if it's not running? (I see there's actually a packaging bug where the main package is brought in because of some Requires -- without the bug, you would be able to only get the tracker libraries).
I can live with it being installed. I'm just cautious because of the old beagle stuff (which you could only really stop by uninstalling it) and the akonasty and friends of KDE4, which annoy the hell out of everyone. I have not yet had a problem with tracker, so that was an unfounded criticism. After my vacation I will have to find a machine that is actually able to run gnome3 in full glory, it at least looks interesting and in the future, more themes might also help to make it more suitable for those that are tightfisted with screen space as I am :-) Best regards, seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Le lundi 17 octobre 2011, à 23:51 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 17.10.2011 11:06, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, à 13:42 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit : Having a "GNOME3_fallbackmode" kernel parameter does not seem too bad for that as it will enable people to actually boot into their desktop and it can easily found in /proc/cmdline.
I changed my mind yesterday, and I'll likely add support for something like gnome.fallback=0/1.
FWIW, there is a small tool being run to detect whether the fallback mode has to be used or not. There's a blacklist mechanism in there, and we could add Intel 830-865 there (I see Fedora does this).
And Radeon RV350 - this does start, but with completely garbled (colour noise with moving color noise blocks) display, at least with a 1400x1050 LCD.
What driver are you using for this? I've heard about issues with the proprietary drivers when using GNOME 3.
* alt-right mouse does not resize windows
Did this work under GNOME 2?
I managed to get GNOME 2 to do this with some gnome-config-editor tool.
.gconf/apps/metacity/general/%gconf.xml: <entry name="resize_with_right_button" mtime="1296814915" type="bool" value="true"/>
Not default, though ;-)
Ah, then you can still use this in fallback mode, with the same tweak: gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/resize_with_right_button --type bool true Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 18.10.2011 09:50, Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi,
Le lundi 17 octobre 2011, à 23:51 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 17.10.2011 11:06, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, à 13:42 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit : Having a "GNOME3_fallbackmode" kernel parameter does not seem too bad for that as it will enable people to actually boot into their desktop and it can easily found in /proc/cmdline.
I changed my mind yesterday, and I'll likely add support for something like gnome.fallback=0/1.
Cool. I believe this will be useful.
And Radeon RV350 - this does start, but with completely garbled (colour noise with moving color noise blocks) display, at least with a 1400x1050 LCD.
What driver are you using for this? I've heard about issues with the proprietary drivers when using GNOME 3.
plain radeon or whatever is on the CD, nothing special. But that driver seems to be getting worse with every release :-) Today my daughter had nasty screen corruption by simply resizing some tetris game (quadrapassel?) to full screen, the same "color noise" and it only was corrected by switching to VT 1 and back to X. Nothing that GNOME can be blamed for, of course, but that fallback parameter will allow to at least see enough to disable the advanced graphics features in the gnome shell.
* alt-right mouse does not resize windows
Did this work under GNOME 2?
I managed to get GNOME 2 to do this with some gnome-config-editor tool.
.gconf/apps/metacity/general/%gconf.xml: <entry name="resize_with_right_button" mtime="1296814915" type="bool" value="true"/>
Not default, though ;-)
Ah, then you can still use this in fallback mode, with the same tweak:
gconftool-2 --set /apps/metacity/general/resize_with_right_button --type bool true
Ok, will try that :-) Best regards, seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 18 octobre 2011, à 23:50 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 18.10.2011 09:50, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le lundi 17 octobre 2011, à 23:51 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 17.10.2011 11:06, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, à 13:42 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit : Having a "GNOME3_fallbackmode" kernel parameter does not seem too bad for that as it will enable people to actually boot into their desktop and it can easily found in /proc/cmdline.
I changed my mind yesterday, and I'll likely add support for something like gnome.fallback=0/1.
Cool. I believe this will be useful.
I'd appreciate testing of the gnome-session-core package from home:vuntz:branches:GNOME:Factory: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/vuntz:/branches:/GNOME:/Fact... This contains support for the gnome.fallback=0/1 argument on the boot line, as well as blacklisting some hardware with regexps in this file: /usr/share/gnome-session/hardware-compatibility Currently, the Intel 830-865 hardware is blacklisted; it would need to be tested, though, as I don't have the hardware. If there's any hardware people think should really be blacklisted, then I need the output of "glxinfo | grep renderer". Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 20.10.2011 08:24, Vincent Untz wrote:
I'd appreciate testing of the gnome-session-core package from home:vuntz:branches:GNOME:Factory: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/vuntz:/branches:/GNOME:/Fact...
This contains support for the gnome.fallback=0/1 argument on the boot
FACTORY iso from yesterday http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/12.1/openSUSE-GNOME-LiveCD-i686-Bui... Works well on the compaq nc6000 (ati rv350) OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on ATI RV350
line, as well as blacklisting some hardware with regexps in this file: /usr/share/gnome-session/hardware-compatibility
Currently, the Intel 830-865 hardware is blacklisted; it would need to be tested, though, as I don't have the hardware.
Does not help for my 855GM: OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 852GM/855GM x86/MMX/SSE2 Actually the regex is wrong, after changing "Intel(R) ..." to "Intel\(R\)...", it works. also works with gnome.fallback=1 of course.
If there's any hardware people think should really be blacklisted, then I need the output of "glxinfo | grep renderer".
I'm not sure about the RV350, as the same chip in 11.4 made some problems with 3d on a 1400x1050 display but worked fine on a different machine with 1280x800... Thanks, seife -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le jeudi 27 octobre 2011, à 23:44 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
On 20.10.2011 08:24, Vincent Untz wrote:
Currently, the Intel 830-865 hardware is blacklisted; it would need to be tested, though, as I don't have the hardware.
Does not help for my 855GM: OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 852GM/855GM x86/MMX/SSE2
Actually the regex is wrong, after changing "Intel(R) ..." to "Intel\(R\)...", it works.
Yeah, I moved to extended regexps after an initial test, and forgot to update this regexp. I already submitted an update to fix the regexp.
If there's any hardware people think should really be blacklisted, then I need the output of "glxinfo | grep renderer".
I'm not sure about the RV350, as the same chip in 11.4 made some problems with 3d on a 1400x1050 display but worked fine on a different machine with 1280x800...
Hrm, indeed, we probably don't want to blindly blacklist there; but knowing why it works in one case and not in the other would be nice :-) Thanks for testing! Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 28.10.2011 08:03, Vincent Untz wrote:
I'm not sure about the RV350, as the same chip in 11.4 made some problems with 3d on a 1400x1050 display but worked fine on a different machine with 1280x800...
Hrm, indeed, we probably don't want to blindly blacklist there; but knowing why it works in one case and not in the other would be nice :-)
I'll try on the other RV350 soon, it is just not as easy as the USB ports on that machine are broken and thus I need to burn a CD to test. The problem is: I probably have stacks of CD-R and RW media lying around, I just never use them and thus forgot where they are ;-) The old problem was not a corruption (like in this case) but that crack-attack (3D game) locked the machine up hard with 1400x1050 but not on 1280x800. But also, with current code the gallium is better (I get the background and "shadows of the menus" on "full" gnome shell, just no fonts etc) than it was two weeks ago (where the whole display was filled with colour noise, and instead of the shadows I had different colour noise where the menus and windows should have been), so maybe it will be fixed until GM :-) Documenting the "gnome.fallback=1" in the release notes is probably as important as having a good blacklist, as that will allow people to at least boot into GNOME and do something useful with it, even if it is only in fallback mode. Without the fallback (or working blacklist), it was basically impossible to do anything, especially in the i855 case where first the session "crashed", logged me out and then GDM crashed the same. I'll try to throw current Factory live media onto the other available hardware I have lying around here and report success or failure. btw: yes, in fallback mode gnome3 is really almost usable ;-) Best regards -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 28.10.2011 09:50, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 28.10.2011 08:03, Vincent Untz wrote:
I'm not sure about the RV350, as the same chip in 11.4 made some problems with 3d on a 1400x1050 display but worked fine on a different machine with 1280x800...
Hrm, indeed, we probably don't want to blindly blacklist there; but knowing why it works in one case and not in the other would be nice :-)
I'll try on the other RV350 soon, it is just not as easy as the USB ports on that machine are broken and thus I need to burn a CD to test. The problem is: I probably have stacks of CD-R and RW media lying around, I just never use them and thus forgot where they are ;-)
The other RV350 works fine with a full blown GNOME3 shell, so no need to blacklist.
btw: yes, in fallback mode gnome3 is really almost usable ;-)
Actually, I played around with the full g3 shell and it is slick. I might have to revise the bad opinions I had of it (might come from its initial introduction in Factory which was in a state that was not funny :-). It might not be the right thing for me, but I can see that is has potential for my users (means: family). Good work. Best regards -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 10 October 2011 13:31:32 Vincent Untz wrote:
You can move the clock, and I'd be happy to hear the other curious stories -- a lot of them are unfortunately misinformed.
There are reports that under Ubuntu 11.10 there is no layout switcher under fallback mode. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/846253 Does this affect openSUSE? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le jeudi 13 octobre 2011, à 18:18 +0400, Ilya Chernykh a écrit :
On Monday 10 October 2011 13:31:32 Vincent Untz wrote:
You can move the clock, and I'd be happy to hear the other curious stories -- a lot of them are unfortunately misinformed.
There are reports that under Ubuntu 11.10 there is no layout switcher under fallback mode.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/846253
Does this affect openSUSE?
No. If you have more than one layout, you automatically get a layout switcher. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 13 October 2011 19:03:13 Vincent Untz wrote:
There are reports that under Ubuntu 11.10 there is no layout switcher under fallback mode.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/846253
Does this affect openSUSE?
No. If you have more than one layout, you automatically get a layout switcher.
Also people say Nautilus was raped and tortured in Gnome-3. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le jeudi 13 octobre 2011, à 21:59 +0400, Ilya Chernykh a écrit :
On Thursday 13 October 2011 19:03:13 Vincent Untz wrote:
There are reports that under Ubuntu 11.10 there is no layout switcher under fallback mode.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/846253
Does this affect openSUSE?
No. If you have more than one layout, you automatically get a layout switcher.
Also people say Nautilus was raped and tortured in Gnome-3.
Do you have any first-hand experience with GNOME 3 and the fallback mode, and therefore issues you can raise? I don't think it's productive to discuss hearsays... Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 10 October 2011 11:24:00 Vincent Untz wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Just wondering: why would you want that? If you're interested in having a GNOME 2 look and feel in Factory, then look at the fallback mode in GNOME 3 -- it's a good start, and only needs some little bits to be really nice.
Vincent, how would you comment this? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158983.html Adam Williamson of Fedora says they will remove fallback once Gnome-shell can be run on any hadware and it indeed can now after recent patches. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 04.11.2011 21:31, schrieb Ilya Chernykh:
On Monday 10 October 2011 11:24:00 Vincent Untz wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Just wondering: why would you want that? If you're interested in having a GNOME 2 look and feel in Factory, then look at the fallback mode in GNOME 3 -- it's a good start, and only needs some little bits to be really nice. Vincent, how would you comment this?
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158983.html
Adam Williamson of Fedora says they will remove fallback once Gnome-shell can be run on any hadware and it indeed can now after recent patches.
Sounds to me like it only counts for Fedora. Maybe our GNOME team is handle it different? ;-) --kdl -- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04.11.2011 21:31, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Adam Williamson of Fedora says they will remove fallback once Gnome-shell can be run on any hadware and it indeed can now after recent patches.
And still I don't see the problem. Just add a GNOME2 theme to XFCE and people will actually find they have additional useful options with XFCE that they did not have with GNOME :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 05 November 2011 13:05:05 Stefan Seyfried wrote:
And still I don't see the problem. Just add a GNOME2 theme to XFCE and people will actually find they have additional useful options with XFCE that they did not have with GNOME :-)
Xfce has no normal file manager. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2011-11-05 at 00:31 +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Vincent, how would you comment this?
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158983.html
Adam Williamson of Fedora says they will remove fallback once Gnome-shell can be run on any hadware and it indeed can now after recent patches.
It doesn't run on _any_ hardware. It doesn't on VMware Player, for example. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAk613V8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WO9gCeL+WWs1kwBr50vmv8jtXUqFwt 82EAl2UfqaRUQ4RaIeWdJtZwMk6Nb0I= =AxwW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le samedi 05 novembre 2011, à 00:31 +0400, Ilya Chernykh a écrit :
On Monday 10 October 2011 11:24:00 Vincent Untz wrote:
Can we see if GNOME:STABLE:2.32 builds well for Factory?
Just wondering: why would you want that? If you're interested in having a GNOME 2 look and feel in Factory, then look at the fallback mode in GNOME 3 -- it's a good start, and only needs some little bits to be really nice.
Vincent, how would you comment this?
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158983.html
Adam Williamson of Fedora says they will remove fallback once Gnome-shell can be run on any hadware and it indeed can now after recent patches.
I'm happy to see Fedora do what they want. In openSUSE, we care about what upstream will do, not about what Fedora will do. As long as upstream maintains the fallback mode, we are not impacted. When upstream will decide to stop caring about the fallback mode (it's not a "if", but a "when": it was always clear that it wouldn't be part of, say, GNOME 4), then we'll discuss what to do for openSUSE. So far, this discussion about killing fallback upstream hasn't occurred. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 06 November 2011 11:37:30 Vincent Untz wrote:
I'm happy to see Fedora do what they want.
In openSUSE, we care about what upstream will do, not about what Fedora will do. As long as upstream maintains the fallback mode, we are not impacted. When upstream will decide to stop caring about the fallback mode (it's not a "if", but a "when": it was always clear that it wouldn't be part of, say, GNOME 4), then we'll discuss what to do for openSUSE.
So far, this discussion about killing fallback upstream hasn't occurred.
Thanks for clarification. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
C -
Carlos E. R. -
Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger -
Ilya Chernykh -
Kim Leyendecker -
Malcolm -
Rajko M. -
Stefan Seyfried -
Vincent Untz