[opensuse-factory] Vista again (bug#396444)
Hi, I'm still unable to reproduce a breakage unless I really try hard to break it. So I would be really grateful for everyone having time and a spare vista to test - vista can be easily repaired if you have an original DVD (these OEM recovery DVDs are unfortunately pretty useless ;( Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME. And Vista seems to be really touchy about other operating systems next to it - google suggests that it's able to break vista boot with almost all of them. But it's pretty unusual that so many people report the same problem with a specific release. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Stephan Kulow escribió: | Hi, | | I'm still unable to reproduce a breakage unless I really | try hard to break it. | | So I would be really grateful for everyone having time | and a spare vista to test - vista can be easily repaired | if you have an original DVD (these OEM recovery DVDs are | unfortunately pretty useless ;( | | Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the | bug as WORKSFORME. And Vista seems to be really touchy | about other operating systems next to it - google suggests | that it's able to break vista boot with almost all of them. | But it's pretty unusual that so many people report the same | problem with a specific release. | | Greetings, Stephan IMHO delaying 11.0 because of Vista is not the best thing to do. I don't see way we need to support window issues here. If someone really needs windows, then install XP. Again, it's just MY opinion. - -- Kind regards. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISrLpNHr4BkRe3pIRCBb7AJ430vfUdHNcV9/NAkZyTR+XMW6odQCaAnyl OKcEpsWmykZoM70V81Qzu0k= =gqon -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
my imho is: it's not so easy. it's a blocker. if a vista user want to try suse and sees that "breaks vista" wont install it, and we dont need that :) On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Gabriel <gabriel@opensuse.org> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Stephan Kulow escribió: | Hi, | | I'm still unable to reproduce a breakage unless I really | try hard to break it. | | So I would be really grateful for everyone having time | and a spare vista to test - vista can be easily repaired | if you have an original DVD (these OEM recovery DVDs are | unfortunately pretty useless ;( | | Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the | bug as WORKSFORME. And Vista seems to be really touchy | about other operating systems next to it - google suggests | that it's able to break vista boot with almost all of them. | But it's pretty unusual that so many people report the same | problem with a specific release. | | Greetings, Stephan
IMHO delaying 11.0 because of Vista is not the best thing to do. I don't see way we need to support window issues here. If someone really needs windows, then install XP.
Again, it's just MY opinion.
- -- Kind regards. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
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-- Andy http://blog.sartek.net
my imho is: it's not so easy. it's a blocker. if a vista user want to try suse and sees that "breaks vista" wont install it, and we dont need that :) The thing is, if 11.0 is delayed a month there are any waranties that
2008/6/7 Andras Barna <andras.barna@gmail.com>: the problem will be fixed? Up to where I see we are so near to find the cause (not even the fix) like we were the day the bug were reported. One could argue that if there would be enough Vista users the cause would have already be found through massive testing. If the cause is not found for 11.0 release is because there are few Vista users, and so the problem isn't so important. We should acknowledge that perhaps we don't have the resources to fix such a problem... we specially lack a resource: Vista copies. Where is the Microsoft-Novell Interoperability Lab when we need it? ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
No delays because of Vista. Please. J-O.E --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
No delays because of Vista. Please.
Give a good reason not to delay for this issue. Vista is around, and it openSUSE installation will break it, it will be considered openSUSE fault, not surely Vista fault. Have other distribution the same issues? If not, how did they solve? Why the problem was not there in 10.3? Regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Alberto Passalacqua schreef:
No delays because of Vista. Please.
Give a good reason not to delay for this issue. Vista is around, and it openSUSE installation will break it, it will be considered openSUSE fault, not surely Vista fault.
Have other distribution the same issues? If not, how did they solve? Why the problem was not there in 10.3?
Regards, Alberto
Fear is agood reason, not to delay. We are not in the need for fear. Don't be afraid of a dying software firm? And please, don't be afraid opensuse would be blamed for the faults of Vista. Everybody that tried to use it, knows that it can't be dual booted unless one installs the proper bootloader. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25.4-8-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.0.4 (KDE 4.0.4 >= 20080505) "release 21.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Everybody that tried to use it, knows that it can't be dual booted unless one installs the proper bootloader.
It's simply false. OpenSUSE 10.3 can be properly installed on a system with an existing installation of Vista, without any kind of manual intervention. The other statements of yours are opinions. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Alberto Passalacqua schreef:
Everybody that tried to use it, knows that it can't be dual booted unless one installs the proper bootloader.
It's simply false. OpenSUSE 10.3 can be properly installed on a system with an existing installation of Vista, without any kind of manual intervention.
I should have been more clear here: All the people i know who tried vista, were astonished by fact that it was released before it was finished, and tried to install XP next to it, to wait for the service-pack that should fix the very many problems. They all experienced, that it was impossible without the proper bootloader. My son, a game programmer, had to switch to XP also, because the apps he uses, were, and still are not ported to Vista. We experienced the same, and also that in the beginning there were no drivers for the new Toshiba. After about ten days there were so many complaints, that allmost all drivers were made ready for XP, now all works on XP. So this is not my opinion, but solid facts, experienced by very many people.
The other statements of yours are opinions.
Indeed, they are. And i stand behind them. You tell me, what is gained by fear? Frustration. What is gained by frustration? Loss of productivity, and conviction. What is fear? Fear is the absence of Love. Name me one decission, you took in fear, that was the right one? What i mean to say is that you don't know what is going to happen, if. So yours, and other statements about reactions of people who do not exist, or who you don't know, that would lead to 'faceloss' of openSuSE, are also opinions. It is a fact, that Vista is not what the world expected, and it is not finished. To expect something, is usualy dissapointing btw.
Regards, A.
-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25.4-8-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.0.4 (KDE 4.0.4 >= 20080505) "release 21.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Alberto Passalacqua <alberto.passalacqua@tin.it> 06/08/08 7:46 PM >>> Everybody that tried to use it, knows that it can't be dual booted unless one installs the proper bootloader.
It's simply false. OpenSUSE 10.3 can be properly installed on a system with an existing installation of Vista, without any kind of manual intervention. The other statements of yours are opinions. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e- mail: opensuse- factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e- mail: opensuse- factory+help@opensuse.org 10.3 also had Problems with Dualbooting Vista. I could not get it running on my PC . I suspect that it was because i was running an 64-bit Vista Ultimate but i never had time to do good TS on it. Opensuse 10.3 was also 64-bit. And i know that i was not the only one with this problem in 10.3. The Grub entry was exactly the same like with my XP now. Just didn't want to boot. I replaced Vista with XP after an memory Upgrade and SP1 destroyed my Vista Installation. But i will see if i can install it on my Laptop. Not sure that i will have the Time though because i have a busy week ahead. Stefan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alberto Passalacqua:
No delays because of Vista. Please.
Give a good reason not to delay for this issue. Vista is around, and it openSUSE installation will break it, it will be considered openSUSE fault, not surely Vista fault.
Have other distribution the same issues? If not, how did they solve? Why the problem was not there in 10.3?
Tell me please ;( As I wrote: it is possible with all operating systems to break Vista, but something in RC1 made it much more likely and we have no idea what it is. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Lørdag den 7. Juni 2008 22:02:55 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alberto Passalacqua:
No delays because of Vista. Please.
Vista has at least 15% market share, and as people buy new computers that will grow. Breaking Vista is suicide. Is it possible that the problem only occurs when partitions are resized (by the openSUSE installer)? If so maybe the installer could say. "You have crappy Vista, please use crappy Vista partitioning tool to create an empty partition before installing nice openSUSE". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 8. Juni 2008 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Lørdag den 7. Juni 2008 22:02:55 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alberto Passalacqua:
No delays because of Vista. Please. Alberto didn't say that, please be careful when quoting.
Vista has at least 15% market share, and as people buy new computers that will grow. Breaking Vista is suicide.
Is it possible that the problem only occurs when partitions are resized (by the openSUSE installer)? No, while the original reporter of 396444 did resize, 3-4 of the commentor's logs did not resize. Including myself.
If so maybe the installer could say. "You have crappy Vista, please use crappy Vista partitioning tool to create an empty partition before installing nice openSUSE".
No, we did several successul resizes. So while this would be a good advise in general (to prepare vista out of vista), it's not required - or it shouldn't be. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Sonntag, 8. Juni 2008 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Lørdag den 7. Juni 2008 22:02:55 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alberto Passalacqua:
No delays because of Vista. Please. Alberto didn't say that, please be careful when quoting.
Vista has at least 15% market share, and as people buy new computers that will grow. Breaking Vista is suicide.
Is it possible that the problem only occurs when partitions are resized (by the openSUSE installer)? No, while the original reporter of 396444 did resize, 3-4 of the commentor's logs did not resize. Including myself.
If so maybe the installer could say. "You have crappy Vista, please use crappy Vista partitioning tool to create an empty partition before installing nice openSUSE".
No, we did several successul resizes. So while this would be a good advise in general (to prepare vista out of vista), it's not required - or it shouldn't be.
The system I reported, I used the vista resize a long time ago before I installed openSUSE 10.3 on the machine. I have only boot vista about 5 times. When I first purchased the machine and resized the disk. Once after installing 10.3. Once prior to the openSUSE 11.0 RC1, and then after the openSUSE upgrade/install from 10.3 to 11.0. Sadly I wiped the 11.0 install and re-installed 10.3 from my backup. So I do not have any logs. My system does not come with media so it is a real pain to fix. I would be willing to try and RC2. But I use this machine for my main work. I really can not afford to be down. -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb@zenez.com> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 8. Juni 2008 schrieb Stephan Kulow:
Am Sonntag, 8. Juni 2008 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Lørdag den 7. Juni 2008 22:02:55 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alberto Passalacqua:
No delays because of Vista. Please.
Alberto didn't say that, please be careful when quoting.
Vista has at least 15% market share, and as people buy new computers that will grow. Breaking Vista is suicide.
Is it possible that the problem only occurs when partitions are resized (by the openSUSE installer)?
No, while the original reporter of 396444 did resize, 3-4 of the commentor's logs did not resize. Including myself.
Hmm, Stephan, if you can reproduce it without resize, why don't you: - dd /dev/zero /dev/hdx - install vista in a way, a resize is not necessary - copy full /dev/hdx to an image - install opensuse (proably on another disk) - compare image with /dev/hdx It should only modify the bootloader, all other differences are faults IMO. Show us the outcome, maybe the pattern, that changed gives hints, who's the bad guy, here. Other interesting questions: - does openSUSE mount the ntfs r/w by default during install/later? - when does vista break - during install or or later, probably from grub? (Above scheme should give possibilities to explore that (including selectively restoring the modifications) I would do that tests for you/opensuse, but - intentionally don't own a vista license ATM (will probably change around winter 2009 (aka SP3 timeframe...) - I'm completely overloaded from my day to day job - would like to spend much more time to test factory since I suffer from zypper issues that I'm unable to describe sufficiently yet to file a useful bug report (as a long time yum user, I finally gave it a go, since it should be able do a similar job now..) (and resume issues I'm not even sure are worth a report, since the whole related ACPI desaster seems unfixable to me ATM (at least for 11.0) Greetings, Pete --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 09:39 +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:
Lørdag den 7. Juni 2008 22:02:55 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alberto Passalacqua:
No delays because of Vista. Please.
Vista has at least 15% market share, and as people buy new computers that will grow. Breaking Vista is suicide.
Is it possible that the problem only occurs when partitions are resized (by the openSUSE installer)?
If so maybe the installer could say. "You have crappy Vista, please use crappy Vista partitioning tool to create an empty partition before installing nice openSUSE". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
If you think breaking Vista is suicide, why do you assume insulting it with adjectives like "crappy" will be tolerated ? Casual --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
IMHO delaying 11.0 because of Vista is not the best thing to do. I don't see way we need to support window issues here. If someone really needs windows, then install XP.
Again, it's just MY opinion.
In a few words: this is exactly the reason it would make me throw a distribution away in favour of another one. It's _impossible_ to think that people using the major opearating system has to adapt to use openSUSE. Like it or not, it's that simple. Regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Is there a bug opened? Open a bug, with a "BLOCKER" rank. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-06-07 at 19:46 +0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Is there a bug opened?
Open a bug, with a "BLOCKER" rank.
Man, did you read this thread? Just have a look at the subject line, will you? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISszjtTMYHG2NR9URAnX7AJ40FGK4YvK8V+8TyaKxagq42ZiYKwCfev4i JNLWWPC8e7vGsd5x98Eaoms= =Ab+e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Alberto Passalacqua schreef:
IMHO delaying 11.0 because of Vista is not the best thing to do. I don't see way we need to support window issues here. If someone really needs windows, then install XP.
Again, it's just MY opinion.
In a few words: this is exactly the reason it would make me throw a distribution away in favour of another one.
It's _impossible_ to think that people using the major opearating system has to adapt to use openSUSE. Like it or not, it's that simple.
Regards, Alberto
Nobody realy cares about vista. All major laptops manufacturers have written drivers for XP, because the clientele can't use vista, besides that, many apps don't work with vista yet. Vista will be rejected by many, who will wait for XP-sp3, or the new windows, which is supposed to come someday. I would suggest to find a solution, but not delay GM release for a crippled os, just because it has been made by the richest software firm. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25.4-8-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.0.4 (KDE 4.0.4 >= 20080505) "release 21.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
"just because it has been made by the richest software firm." NOT because that, because the users! On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Alberto Passalacqua schreef:
IMHO delaying 11.0 because of Vista is not the best thing to do. I don't see way we need to support window issues here. If someone really needs windows, then install XP.
Again, it's just MY opinion.
In a few words: this is exactly the reason it would make me throw a distribution away in favour of another one.
It's _impossible_ to think that people using the major opearating system has to adapt to use openSUSE. Like it or not, it's that simple.
Regards, Alberto
Nobody realy cares about vista. All major laptops manufacturers have written drivers for XP, because the clientele can't use vista, besides that, many apps don't work with vista yet. Vista will be rejected by many, who will wait for XP-sp3, or the new windows, which is supposed to come someday.
I would suggest to find a solution, but not delay GM release for a crippled os, just because it has been made by the richest software firm.
--
Enjoy your time around,
Oddball (Now or never...)
Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25.4-8-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.0.4 (KDE 4.0.4 >= 20080505) "release 21.1"
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Andras Barna schreef:
"just because it has been made by the richest software firm."
NOT because that, because the users!
Most of them massively migrated back to XP....
-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25.4-8-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.0.4 (KDE 4.0.4 >= 20080505) "release 21.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Can't you get any help from Microsoft on this with the Novell/MS agreement? Erik. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Putrycz, Erik schreef:
Can't you get any help from Microsoft on this with the Novell/MS agreement?
Erik.
This is farout the best option.. ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25.4-8-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.0.4 (KDE 4.0.4 >= 20080505) "release 21.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Putrycz, Erik escribió:
Can't you get any help from Microsoft on this with the Novell/MS agreement?
The colaboration between Novell and MS is limited to some very specific areas, I thought that was clear enough already :P read the FAQ again ;) -- "Progress is possible only if we train ourselves to think about programs without thinking of them as pieces of executable code.” - Edsger W. Dijkstra Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
I think Alberto is right, Oddball notwithstanding. No final release should carry such a burden. If GM should be rolled out with the shadow of a doubt, it will have to be published, as to make people aware they are likely going to break their system. Who should give such a Distribution a try ? No serious IT person I should think. If we want to be renowned as the Distro for Geeks and Freaks, that's the way to go. Casual On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 19:56 +0200, Oddball wrote:
Alberto Passalacqua schreef:
IMHO delaying 11.0 because of Vista is not the best thing to do. I don't see way we need to support window issues here. If someone really needs windows, then install XP.
Again, it's just MY opinion.
In a few words: this is exactly the reason it would make me throw a distribution away in favour of another one.
It's _impossible_ to think that people using the major opearating system has to adapt to use openSUSE. Like it or not, it's that simple.
Regards, Alberto
Nobody realy cares about vista. All major laptops manufacturers have written drivers for XP, because the clientele can't use vista, besides that, many apps don't work with vista yet. Vista will be rejected by many, who will wait for XP-sp3, or the new windows, which is supposed to come someday.
I would suggest to find a solution, but not delay GM release for a crippled os, just because it has been made by the richest software firm.
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-----Original Message----- From: Casual J. Programmer [mailto:casualprogrammer@googlemail.com] Sent: June-07-08 2:09 PM To: Oddball Cc: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Vista again (bug#396444)
I think Alberto is right, Oddball notwithstanding.
No final release should carry such a burden.
If GM should be rolled out with the shadow of a doubt, it will have to be published, as to make people aware they are likely going to break their system.
Who should give such a Distribution a try ? No serious IT person I should think.
If we want to be renowned as the Distro for Geeks and Freaks, that's
way to go.
Casual
On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 19:56 +0200, Oddball wrote:
Alberto Passalacqua schreef:
IMHO delaying 11.0 because of Vista is not the best thing to do. I don't see way we need to support window issues here. If someone really needs windows, then install XP.
Again, it's just MY opinion.
In a few words: this is exactly the reason it would make me throw a distribution away in favour of another one.
It's _impossible_ to think that people using the major opearating system has to adapt to use openSUSE. Like it or not, it's that simple.
Regards, Alberto
Nobody realy cares about vista. All major laptops manufacturers have written drivers for XP, because
Not to mention that such bug could make it in the news, spread fast and make bad reputation for opensuse. Erik. the the
clientele can't use vista, besides that, many apps don't work with vista yet. Vista will be rejected by many, who will wait for XP-sp3, or the new windows, which is supposed to come someday.
I would suggest to find a solution, but not delay GM release for a crippled os, just because it has been made by the richest software firm.
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Not sure if this helps, but have you checked Microsofts Technet for details ? http://search.technet.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?query=vista +multiboot&brand=technet&locale=en-us&refinement= Casual On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 12:05 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Hi,
I'm still unable to reproduce a breakage unless I really try hard to break it.
So I would be really grateful for everyone having time and a spare vista to test - vista can be easily repaired if you have an original DVD (these OEM recovery DVDs are unfortunately pretty useless ;(
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME. And Vista seems to be really touchy about other operating systems next to it - google suggests that it's able to break vista boot with almost all of them. But it's pretty unusual that so many people report the same problem with a specific release.
Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
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Also there is http://blogs.technet.com/aralves/archive/2006/12/18/dual-boot-vista-with-eas... Casual On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 12:05 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Hi,
I'm still unable to reproduce a breakage unless I really try hard to break it.
So I would be really grateful for everyone having time and a spare vista to test - vista can be easily repaired if you have an original DVD (these OEM recovery DVDs are unfortunately pretty useless ;(
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME. And Vista seems to be really touchy about other operating systems next to it - google suggests that it's able to break vista boot with almost all of them. But it's pretty unusual that so many people report the same problem with a specific release.
Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
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Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Casual J. Programmer:
Also there is
http://blogs.technet.com/aralves/archive/2006/12/18/dual-boot-vista-with-ea sybcd.aspx
I found this tool before - when my own vista was broken, but it's an exe, so I'm not sure what it helps once you find your windows unbootable ;( Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> [2008-06-07 12:05]:
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME.
I think both options are not good. If the bug cannot be fixed, there should be a detection of Vista in YaST and if Vista is detected, then a warning should pop up that the installation of openSUSE may break the booting of Vista. With a hint how to fix it afterwards. Maybe a link to the openSUSE Wiki where additional information can be added afterwards. Then the *user* can decide if it's worth the risk. But we should be honest to our users! A user that installs openSUSE 11.0 the first time and gets a broken Windows with all the data lost (for him in the first place) -- such a user will never ever install Linux (and not only the SUSE flavour) next X years. I just remember when I installed SUSE LINUX 6.3 the first time. I read the manual before installing anything. I didn't install the boot loader to MBR because that was considered as "dangerous". I installed the bootloader to a floppy disk and each time I wanted to boot Linux, I moved that disk into my floppy drive. I took 2 month after I installed LILO in MBR. And it worked. My Windows 98 never stopped working. And that was important for me. Bernhard (that's my private opinion, not as SUSE/Novell employee) -- Bernhard Walle, SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Architecture Maintenance
Bernhard Walle schrieb:
* Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> [2008-06-07 12:05]:
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME.
Have a look at the bug #396444 ( https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=396444 ). It seems that our wizards of oS finaly found what goes wrong - hooray !!! :-)
I think both options are not good. If the bug cannot be fixed, there should be a detection of Vista in YaST and if Vista is detected, then a warning should pop up that the installation of openSUSE may break the booting of Vista. With a hint how to fix it afterwards. Maybe a link to the openSUSE Wiki where additional information can be added afterwards.
Then the *user* can decide if it's worth the risk. But we should be honest to our users! A user that installs openSUSE 11.0 the first time and gets a broken Windows with all the data lost (for him in the first place) -- such a user will never ever install Linux (and not only the SUSE flavour) next X years.
I second that in every respect. To be honest in such situations is the only right solution. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello, Thomas Meindl írta:
Bernhard Walle schrieb:
* Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> [2008-06-07 12:05]:
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME.
Have a look at the bug #396444 ( https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=396444 ). It seems that our wizards of oS finaly found what goes wrong - hooray !!! :-)
I think, it would be worth to release an RC2 or sync out a fixed factory. I was one of the affected Vista users. Actually I don't really care about Vista myself (did not even try to repair the broken install :-) ), but still find important to get it fixed and get it tested *before* release, as it could bring very bad press for openSUSE/Novell (and people asking, what was the MS deal good for :-) ). I found my Vista DVD, and ready to test! Bye, CzP --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I think, it would be worth to release an RC2 or sync out a fixed factory. I
Yes, if the bug is real, then releasing RC2 makes sense, as it is very serious bug. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alexey Eremenko:
I think, it would be worth to release an RC2 or sync out a fixed factory. I
Yes, if the bug is real, then releasing RC2 makes sense, as it is very serious bug.
That's the "delay 11.0" option. It seems you guys like to discuss theories, I wanted vista installs tested with logs. How would a RC2 help if noone with vista wants to test? Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Alas, no Vista available for test! However, I'm in doubt whether this information could be of whatever interest for tech people: http://blogs.sun.com/moinakg/entry/solaris_vista_dual_boot_revisited Greetings Rob On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alexey Eremenko:
I think, it would be worth to release an RC2 or sync out a fixed factory. I
Yes, if the bug is real, then releasing RC2 makes sense, as it is very serious bug.
That's the "delay 11.0" option. It seems you guys like to discuss theories, I wanted vista installs tested with logs. How would a RC2 help if noone with vista wants to test?
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Putrycz, Erik pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Alas, no Vista available for test!
We all need vista licences!!
Erik
Maybe we can get a bulk discount. :-)) -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 07. Juni 2008 16:47:46 schrieb Putrycz, Erik:
Alas, no Vista available for test!
We all need vista licences!!
Erik
Is there something like a trial download for Vista? I don't mind downloading and testing it, but I don't want to pay for a real license. -- Gruß Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Andreas <linuxdreas@launchnet.com> [06-07-08 23:08]:
Is there something like a trial download for Vista? I don't mind downloading and testing it, but I don't want to pay for a real license.
If they (m$) base the cost to you on realized value, they will pay you to test vista out of the goodness of their ?heart. But the possible damage to your hardware and mindset is incalculable :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Roberto Mannai:
Alas, no Vista available for test! However, I'm in doubt whether this information could be of whatever interest for tech people: http://blogs.sun.com/moinakg/entry/solaris_vista_dual_boot_revisited
Yeah, basically this is what we found out meanwhile too ;) Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Sorry folks, my pre-version of vista expired already. Casual On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 22:12 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alexey Eremenko:
I think, it would be worth to release an RC2 or sync out a fixed factory. I
Yes, if the bug is real, then releasing RC2 makes sense, as it is very serious bug.
That's the "delay 11.0" option. It seems you guys like to discuss theories, I wanted vista installs tested with logs. How would a RC2 help if noone with vista wants to test?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Stephan, An user of the spanish list has vista and 11.0 working fine, but he installed beta 3 and later updated from factory. And is using lilo. If you think some info from his configuration could be useful, tel me what you need and I'll attach it. - -- Kind regards. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFISxCcNHr4BkRe3pIRCAxGAKDK22hPNYYqpQAqXYZafPN+nQTG3QCfd3xe gj4GcGkVdTtc1WYl7v7YZJ8= =RDqq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Alexey Eremenko:
I think, it would be worth to release an RC2 or sync out a fixed factory. I
Yes, if the bug is real, then releasing RC2 makes sense, as it is very serious bug.
That's the "delay 11.0" option. It seems you guys like to discuss theories, I wanted vista installs tested with logs. How would a RC2 help if noone with vista wants to test?
I just finished installing VistaSP1 on my x86 machine and installing the latest factory right now. I wonder if Vista will be broken again. Doing an xfce install instead of KDE4 to get results faster :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello, Peter Czanik wrote:
I just finished installing VistaSP1 on my x86 machine and installing the latest factory right now. I wonder if Vista will be broken again. Doing an xfce install instead of KDE4 to get results faster :-)
Just finished installation, and Vista booted without any problems. I wonder, if it makes any difference: originally I used Vista Business, and now Vista Ultimate SP1. If you are still interested in logs, let me know. Bye, CzP --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 09 Juni 2008 schrieb Peter Czanik:
Hello,
Peter Czanik wrote:
I just finished installing VistaSP1 on my x86 machine and installing the latest factory right now. I wonder if Vista will be broken again. Doing an xfce install instead of KDE4 to get results faster :-)
Just finished installation, and Vista booted without any problems. I wonder, if it makes any difference: originally I used Vista Business, and now Vista Ultimate SP1. If you are still interested in logs, let me know. Bye,
No, we have enough successful logs by now - the bug is WORKSFORME ;) Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Peter Czanik wrote:
Hello,
Peter Czanik wrote:
I just finished installing VistaSP1 on my x86 machine and installing the latest factory right now. I wonder if Vista will be broken again. Doing an xfce install instead of KDE4 to get results faster :-)
Just finished installation, and Vista booted without any problems. I wonder, if it makes any difference: originally I used Vista Business, and now Vista Ultimate SP1. If you are still interested in logs, let me know. Bye,
Successful story: openSUSE 10.3 1.) Clean Vista Home Premium (sda1, boot flag set) 2.) Installing 10.3, GRUB in MBR, all in Extended partition 3.) Windows loader is replaced with MBR sda1 (first 512 bytes) is untouched openSUSE 11.0 1.) Clean Vista Home Premium (sda1, boot flag set) 2.) Installing 10.3, GRUB in MBR, all in Extended partition 3.) Windows loader is replaced with MBR sda1 (first 512 bytes) is untouched I'll try the only known unsuccessful story (consulted with juhliarik) 11.0 in primary partition, Generic code in MBR It should be quite easy to restore part of MBR checked by Vista. Bye Lukas
Lukas Ocilka wrote:
I'll try the only known unsuccessful story (consulted with juhliarik) 11.0 in primary partition, Generic code in MBR It should be quite easy to restore part of MBR checked by Vista.
OK, that worked! Info got from Jozef Uliarik, found by Steffen Winterfeldt(?). Before installation: # dd if=/dev/sda skip=440 bs=1 count=6 of=sda_crc openSUSE 11.0 1.) Clean Vista Home Premium (sda1, boot flag set) 2.) Installing 11.0, Generic code MBR, Set active flag, all in Primary parts 3.) Windows loader is replaced with Generic code After that, Vista doesn't boot, so I booted to the rescue system and called: dd if=sda_crc seek=440 bs=1 count=6 of=/dev/sda and rebooted. After reboot, Vista loads via GRUB. openSUSE works too. Have a nice day Lukas
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Peter Czanik:
I found my Vista DVD, and ready to test!
Then provide logs of RC1 or factory, that would help already. Unless you write generic MBR code, there is nothing fixed ;( Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Bernhard Walle schreef:
* Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> [2008-06-07 12:05]:
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME.
I think both options are not good. If the bug cannot be fixed, there should be a detection of Vista in YaST and if Vista is detected, then a warning should pop up that the installation of openSUSE may break the booting of Vista. With a hint how to fix it afterwards. Maybe a link to the openSUSE Wiki where additional information can be added afterwards.
Then the *user* can decide if it's worth the risk. But we should be honest to our users! A user that installs openSUSE 11.0 the first time and gets a broken Windows with all the data lost (for him in the first place) -- such a user will never ever install Linux (and not only the SUSE flavour) next X years.
I just remember when I installed SUSE LINUX 6.3 the first time. I read the manual before installing anything. I didn't install the boot loader to MBR because that was considered as "dangerous". I installed the bootloader to a floppy disk and each time I wanted to boot Linux, I moved that disk into my floppy drive. I took 2 month after I installed LILO in MBR. And it worked. My Windows 98 never stopped working. And that was important for me.
Bernhard (that's my private opinion, not as SUSE/Novell employee)
Ofcourse it would be out of the question *not* to warn the users! Let a user the choice is always the best option in this. We are all users. Allways be honest. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25.4-8-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.0.4 (KDE 4.0.4 >= 20080505) "release 21.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I would support the delay of the release if the bug could be reproduced. I think we would be in a better position to release 11 on time if we asked for help from the wider community and still could not reproduce the bug. We could spread the word via opensuse.org/slashdot/blogs/word-of-mouth/etc. Mike --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 7. Juni 2008 schrieb Stephan Kulow:
Hi,
I'm still unable to reproduce a breakage unless I really try hard to break it.
So I would be really grateful for everyone having time and a spare vista to test - vista can be easily repaired if you have an original DVD (these OEM recovery DVDs are unfortunately pretty useless ;(
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME. And Vista seems to be really touchy about other operating systems next to it - google suggests that it's able to break vista boot with almost all of them. But it's pretty unusual that so many people report the same problem with a specific release.
OK, I did yet another install yesterday with GRUB in the MBR and it all worked fine. So after we fix the issues that we found by now, the rest is really WORKSFORME and we can release (I would still love to understand what went wrong for the other reporters, but such things can happen). Thanks everyone. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Hi,
I'm still unable to reproduce a breakage unless I really try hard to break it.
So I would be really grateful for everyone having time and a spare vista to test - vista can be easily repaired if you have an original DVD (these OEM recovery DVDs are unfortunately pretty useless ;(
Currently I have only two options: delay 11.0 or close the bug as WORKSFORME. And Vista seems to be really touchy about other operating systems next to it - google suggests that it's able to break vista boot with almost all of them. But it's pretty unusual that so many people report the same problem with a specific release.
Greetings, Stephan
Well, I installed RC1 with KDE4 from the live/installer CD, and I'm able to boot Vista (Home premium edition) without problems. I'll update the bug report with the y2log and y2log_bootloader files. They might be useful to somebody. The grub set up added two windows boot options, one of which won't boot since it's pointing at the wrong disk. Very fast installation, btw. Really slick! Cheers Pete --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (26)
-
Alberto Passalacqua -
Alexey Eremenko -
Andras Barna -
Andreas -
Bernhard Walle -
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Carlos E. R. -
Casual J. Programmer -
Christian Morales Vega -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Gabriel -
Hans-Peter Jansen -
Jan-Olof Eriksson -
Ken Schneider -
Lukas Ocilka -
Martin Schlander -
Michael Mientus -
Oddball -
Patrick Shanahan -
Pete Connolly -
Peter Czanik -
Putrycz, Erik -
Roberto Mannai -
Stefan Kunze -
Stephan Kulow -
Thomas Meindl