[opensuse-factory] Power consumption (or when does upgrading hardware pay off?)
Ondřej Súkup wrote:
My 2 mythtv backend boxes are still running on Intel P4s. Very much alive and no moral nor physical reason to replace them. Ditto for our corporate firewalls and asterisk server.
try to calculate energy needs of intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu with sufficent power for this backends ..
[off-topic] One of these backends use about 70W when idling, which is maybe 20 out of 24 hours. It amounts to 0.25 per day in running costs. A new up-to-date box (with room for two 3.5" SATA drives) might be 300 and still consume maybe 35W. (very rough guess based on power dissipation of newer Intel CPUs). That makes a saving of 0.12 per day, thereby paying off the 300 investment in 2500 days. If I got a 2nd hand machine at 150, the investment would be paid off in 1250 days, unless the 2nd hand box used more power. I have not taken into account that kWhs are cheaper between 20:00 and 08:00. Maybe I'll put a meter on it for a full day and see the real numbers. Something powered by Intel Atoms would use significantly less power, but I haven't looked for those and I have a suspicion they wouldn't have sufficient power. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (24.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-28 11:24, Per Jessen wrote:
Ondřej Súkup wrote:
try to calculate energy needs of intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu with sufficent power for this backends ..
[off-topic] One of these backends use about 70W when idling, which is maybe 20 out of 24 hours.
My P-IV home server uses between 50-75 W (measured). I can reduce that by replacing the power supply with a modern one, if wanted. However, it is unsure the economy of that switch. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXgPkwACgkQja8UbcUWM1xIegD/eeiRQCIWOwLwjBWzEk+UQM/b GlUzK1wJenvCbKaNeKUA/jU/lCCQaiLGgwQwnysASDxPq6dxYXdgZb6YfwNOT6ZB =29dX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 11:24, Per Jessen wrote:
Ondřej Súkup wrote:
My 2 mythtv backend boxes are still running on Intel P4s. Very much alive and no moral nor physical reason to replace them. Ditto for our corporate firewalls and asterisk server.
try to calculate energy needs of intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu with sufficient power for this backends ..
[off-topic] One of these backends use about 70W when idling, which is maybe 20 out of 24 hours. It amounts to 0.25 per day in running costs. A new up-to-date box (with room for two 3.5" SATA drives) might be 300 and still consume maybe 35W. (very rough guess based on power dissipation of newer Intel CPUs). That makes a saving of 0.12 per day, thereby paying off the 300 investment in 2500 days. If I got a 2nd hand machine at 150, the investment would be paid off in 1250 days, unless the 2nd hand box used more power.
I have not taken into account that kWhs are cheaper between 20:00 and 08:00. Maybe I'll put a meter on it for a full day and see the real numbers.
Something powered by Intel Atoms would use significantly less power, but I haven't looked for those and I have a suspicion they wouldn't have sufficient power.
FYI: Better than Atom, but below the Core-i(3,5,7): Celeron and Pentium: In german: ct@heise.de http://www.heise.de/artikel-archiv/ct/2015/15/068_Kleiner-Streamer Content: Low-end CPU Braswell good step up from Bay Trail Board: AsRock N3150M (90-MXGZD0-A0UAYZ) (similar others by AsRock, Asus, Gigabyte, Intel) SATA 2x 6G, USB 2x 3.0, USB 2x 2.0, (VGA, DVI, HDMI : 2 max same-time), PS/2 2x, HD-Audio, 1Gbit-Eth, PCIe 2.0 1lane 2x, PCIe 2.0 16lane 1x, PASSIVE COOLING, RAM PC3-12800U/DDR3-1600 16GB max Power Idle Board only: below 15W (Add e.g. TV-card, HDDs) Power max Board only: below 30W (Add e.g. TV-card, HDDs) Price 75-95 EUR (Board inkl. CPU/GPU and Heatsink) I like this board b/c of its PCIe ability, most mini-ITX are missing these. And no CPU fan is a plus. If you use HDDs (rotating rust), please give the case one as big as possible, slow fan, that helps to keep cool for a long life. A good replacement to the old Athlon system that became less reliable this summer (heat troubles, fans and caps giving out, PSU becoming spiky, 2GB Ram, Evergreen 11.4, EOL after 12! (Twelve) Years. - Yamaban
Op vrijdag 28 augustus 2015 11:24:03 schreef Per Jessen:
Ondřej Súkup wrote:
My 2 mythtv backend boxes are still running on Intel P4s. Very much alive and no moral nor physical reason to replace them. Ditto for our corporate firewalls and asterisk server.
try to calculate energy needs of intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu with sufficent power for this backends .. [....] Something powered by Intel Atoms would use significantly less power, but I haven't looked for those and I have a suspicion they wouldn't have sufficient power.
If you have no need for fast disks I would recommend ARM based systems. I have a Raspberry Pi 1B, with openSUSE, running my email and web server and an external USB disk, which take about 5 W. I am upgrading it to a Raspberry Pi 2B running openSUSE Tumbleweed, more for fun than that it is needed. -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 28 August 2015 11:24:03 Per Jessen wrote:
Ondřej Súkup wrote:
My 2 mythtv backend boxes are still running on Intel P4s. Very much alive and no moral nor physical reason to replace them. Ditto for our corporate firewalls and asterisk server.
try to calculate energy needs of intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu with sufficent power for this backends ..
[off-topic] One of these backends use about 70W when idling, which is maybe 20 out of 24 hours. It amounts to 0.25 per day in running costs. A new up-to-date box (with room for two 3.5" SATA drives) might be 300 and still consume maybe 35W. (very rough guess based on power dissipation of newer Intel CPUs). That makes a saving of 0.12 per day, thereby paying off the 300 investment in 2500 days. If I got a 2nd hand machine at 150, the investment would be paid off in 1250 days, unless the 2nd hand box used more power.
I have not taken into account that kWhs are cheaper between 20:00 and 08:00. Maybe I'll put a meter on it for a full day and see the real numbers.
Something powered by Intel Atoms would use significantly less power, but I haven't looked for those and I have a suspicion they wouldn't have sufficient power.
70W minimum times 24 hours times 365 days times 0.23€ is 140€ a year. An Intel Braswell Atom N3700 runs with about 7W, or 15€ a year. It sells for 100€ (uATX or ITX form factor), plus 30€ for 4GB of RAM, so it takes a little bit longer than a year to pay off (you can reuse your old case/PSU). The N3700 has at least the same, often 4 times the speed of the P4, see e.g. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-478-retro&num=5 The Intel Compute Stick (Z3735F) has 4 cores, but only 1.8GHz, the N2820 has 2 cores but 2.4GHz. The N3700 has 4 cores with 2.4GHz, so is always faster than any of the two other. http://ark.intel.com/compare/80274,79052,78867,87261 Kind regards, Stefan -- Stefan Brüns / Bergstraße 21 / 52062 Aachen home: +49 241 53809034 mobile: +49 151 50412019 work: +49 2405 49936-424 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Stefan Bruens wrote:
On Friday 28 August 2015 11:24:03 Per Jessen wrote:
Ondřej Súkup wrote:
My 2 mythtv backend boxes are still running on Intel P4s. Very much alive and no moral nor physical reason to replace them. Ditto for our corporate firewalls and asterisk server.
try to calculate energy needs of intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu with sufficent power for this backends ..
[off-topic] One of these backends use about 70W when idling, which is maybe 20 out of 24 hours. It amounts to 0.25 per day in running costs. A new up-to-date box (with room for two 3.5" SATA drives) might be 300 and still consume maybe 35W. (very rough guess based on power dissipation of newer Intel CPUs). That makes a saving of 0.12 per day, thereby paying off the 300 investment in 2500 days. If I got a 2nd hand machine at 150, the investment would be paid off in 1250 days, unless the 2nd hand box used more power.
I have not taken into account that kWhs are cheaper between 20:00 and 08:00. Maybe I'll put a meter on it for a full day and see the real numbers.
Something powered by Intel Atoms would use significantly less power, but I haven't looked for those and I have a suspicion they wouldn't have sufficient power.
70W minimum times 24 hours times 365 days times 0.23€ is 140€ a year.
An Intel Braswell Atom N3700 runs with about 7W, or 15€ a year. It sells for 100€ (uATX or ITX form factor), plus 30€ for 4GB of RAM, so it takes a little bit longer than a year to pay off (you can reuse your old case/PSU).
The N3700 has at least the same, often 4 times the speed of the P4, see e.g. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-478-retro&num=5
Nice one, thank you. Not sure if it would fit in the old box (IBM Thinkcentre), :-) see: https://www.itsco.de/pc-ibm-thinkcentre-m52-intel-pentium-4-3ghz-8215.html Anyway, I'm probably not going to switch these two boxes for the sake of saving myself 100 a year. It was primarily a response to Ondřej Súkup who thought the energy consumption of "intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu" was an argument in the lets-drop-32bit discussion.
The Intel Compute Stick (Z3735F) has 4 cores, but only 1.8GHz, the N2820 has 2 cores but 2.4GHz. The N3700 has 4 cores with 2.4GHz, so is always faster than any of the two other. http://ark.intel.com/compare/80274,79052,78867,87261
I've got an Intel Compute Stick, I'm trying to make it run as mythtv client. I need to look at the network, it doesn't work with openSUSE 13.2. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (27.4°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
Stefan Bruens wrote:
On Friday 28 August 2015 11:24:03 Per Jessen wrote:
Ondřej Súkup wrote:
My 2 mythtv backend boxes are still running on Intel P4s. Very much alive and no moral nor physical reason to replace them. Ditto for our corporate firewalls and asterisk server.
try to calculate energy needs of intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu with sufficent power for this backends ..
[off-topic] One of these backends use about 70W when idling, which [is maybe 20 out of 24 hours. It amounts to 0.25 per day in running costs. A new up-to-date box (with room for two 3.5" SATA drives) might be 300 and still consume maybe 35W. (very rough guess based on power dissipation of newer Intel CPUs). That makes a saving of 0.12 per day, thereby paying off the 300 investment in 2500 days. If I got a 2nd hand machine at 150, the investment would be paid off in 1250 days, unless the 2nd hand box used more power.
I have not taken into account that kWhs are cheaper between 20:00 and 08:00. Maybe I'll put a meter on it for a full day and see the real numbers.
Something powered by Intel Atoms would use significantly less power, but I haven't looked for those and I have a suspicion they wouldn't have sufficient power.
70W minimum times 24 hours times 365 days times 0.23€ is 140€ a year.
An Intel Braswell Atom N3700 runs with about 7W, or 15€ a year. It sells for 100€ (uATX or ITX form factor), plus 30€ for 4GB of RAM, so it takes a little bit longer than a year to pay off (you can reuse your old case/PSU).
The N3700 has at least the same, often 4 times the speed of the P4, see e.g. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-478-retro&num=5
Nice one, thank you. Not sure if it would fit in the old box (IBM Thinkcentre), :-) see:
https://www.itsco.de/pc-ibm-thinkcentre-m52-intel-pentium-4-3ghz-8215.html
Anyway, I'm probably not going to switch these two boxes for the sake of saving myself 100 a year.
I forgot one really, really important feature - apart from space for two 3.5" SATA drives, I need PCI slots. The MythTV backend receives DVB-S via cards such as the "Hauppauge WinTV Nova-S-Plus DVB-S" (currently each backend has two of these). So, a modern system with 64bit capable CPU, low power consumption and at least two PCI slots. Not sure whether to put a :-( or a :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (27.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:46:54 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
It was primarily a response to Ondřej Súkup who thought the energy consumption of "intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu" was an argument in the lets-drop-32bit discussion.
It's not regardless of the power consumption. You can get modern low power hardware and run 32b OS there. Like any VPS. - -- Jan Matějka | QA Engineer for Maintenance SUSE LINUX s.r.o. | https://www.suse.com/ GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJV4F0jAAoJEIN+7RD5ejahPAUIAJjkyKfPOCYmnq0GyNvWUVFx 71bE8bEveQFL15n5LPPEhkc+RIvqyyLXzZNNC8ccRsn7UBPvaiUFo352zY7XbJnV VoqDZR01izQndUUB3NxtUgsTVERxoz0+Ve07iI2ddI8WaLzWyo4gaMBCx50ez6eR V5cpEMATB8Wv6bG/a1BwSJtCz7vFb08FSnBvYF57yaO28edOmVTFuikIpM++RKrl N9Ex+IgIHMQqq4NpqQ3rbO/zH77rSfpsioBvzcQODSAHQmd0dbRR1323K8nWioYB lp6t1Boxx5Lj9HHY5tdgb18YbW8X+imTVjszznocWhIcmIUvyH0bTrLLXlCTins= =Vzvw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Jan Matejka wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:46:54 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
It was primarily a response to Ondřej Súkup who thought the energy consumption of "intel P4 vs modern 64bit cpu" was an argument in the lets-drop-32bit discussion.
It's not regardless of the power consumption. You can get modern low power hardware and run 32b OS there. Like any VPS.
Right, completely agree. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (28.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Freek de Kruijf -
Jan Matejka -
Per Jessen -
Stefan Bruens -
Yamaban