On 18.11.2015 15:04, Richard Brown wrote:
In order to fix this issue, we need OBS to be able to support this
https://features.opensuse.org/318339
Until then, Factory:Snapshot and Factory:Standard will continue to be the only two options we'll have to build packages intended for Tumbleweed
And because the OP doesn't seem to understand despite my efforts to explain this in the earlier bug, neither Factory:Snapshot nor Factory:Standard is synonymous with Tumbleweed.
It seems that you too don't understand something regardless of my attempts to phrase it: it _doesn't matter_ what you call "Tumbleweed". What matters is the fact that all repoes are built against Factory:snapshot which is inaccessible. So for them not to break for no good reason you need either open it up or built them against what is accessible because you're redirecting all access attempts for both Snapshot and Standard to "Tumbleweed" repo, whatever it is. And if that isn't either one of them, it's even more messy.
Factory:Snapshot is a *manually* chosen frozen point in time of Factory. Sometimes it's very close to Tumbleweed. Sometimes it's less close (Depending on how long since the last time it was manually synced). It's always a little older than Tumbleweed. Without the above feature, we can't make it the same, because there is a fundamental lag between when a Factory build starts being tested before it gets published, and during that 1-2 days lag, Factory moves with new submissions People wouldn't be happy if we built against untested code. People wouldn't be happy if we froze submissions for 2 days in order to see if that build should be the next Factory:snapshot every time we had a new build under testing, because we ALWAYS have a new build under testing, so we'd never release anything....
OK, but what exactly is "being tested" ? Is it the Factory:snapshot on update of which "tests" and all repo rebuilds start ? Why then you don't just postpone publishing and build-usage of that snapshot, synchronize it with publishing of what you call "TW" ? But not, that doesn't make sense either. Why the hell a snapshot would be older than "TW" repo if its "TW" repo that is being "tested" ? Shouldn't "TW" be older ? Why aren't they the same ? Does real "TW" snapshot gets dropped without publishing if it doesn't pass said "tests" ? Anyway, whatever holds off building against what's publicly available, if you can't fix it in adequate time, then it's time for workarounds, like publicising Factory:snapshot because having all the repoes potentially broken is absolutely unacceptable. The only reason you don't consider it as giant problem is because you don't use it and don't even see as part of your build process. But it is a part of mine, for example. And yes, that's is an ugly workaround for another workarounds because, if I understood you correctly now, "TW" repo is something living completely outside of normal OBS process. And while normal OBS process has its own shortcomings, that one is even worse. But that's how you've done it, so _you fix it_, not just wait until all people are forced to build by your rules. Again, it comes down to what "TW" is: a rolling release in itself or a fancy name for testing-grade bleeding edge, "raw meat" for true releases ? If the former, you need to step up your game.
Factory:Standard is the automatic build target of Factory. Untested, unproven, everything that's been accepted into the openSUSE:Factory process. Sometimes it is very close to Tumbleweed, sometimes its less close (Depending on how long since the last snapshot of Tumbleweed past tested). It's always a little *newer* than Tumbleweed.
And it moves to fast to build against it at all. Until proposed in bug#954697 changes of publishing and rebuilding, at least. Until then we need reliably available snapshots of some kind.
Depending on what you're building, Factory:snapshot or Factory:standard should, most of the time, give you a good enough approximation of Tumbleweed to build stuff for Tumbleweed.
That's not good enough, and worse, even if "TW" is available for building / snapshot is available for access, the difference between its publishing time and repoes' build & publishing is a problem on its own. To fix that the repoes should start rebuilding at the same time as you start your "tests" and be allowed to publicise at the same time as new true "TW" snapshot.
Of course, the best way of building something for Tumbleweed, is to _submit your stuff to Factory_. Even when OBS supports building against Tumbleweed properly, it will always be better to have your packages in the main distro rather than as a custom OBS project that is without testing and community all working on it together.
Either way, if you want this fixed, less conspiracy theories please and more contributing to the Build Service
I can't make an entire distro build and fix all world's problems at the same time while doing it for free. Making packages is my secondary priority, making them properly is tertiary. But I need to make my distro build. Update for the damn thing already been postponed for far too long and I have other things to do. And I shouldn't have to. Because OBS shouldn't be only about making official packages for you to put into TW to later put into Leap to then put into SLE. Or, at least, not right away. RPM specs are annoying, doing them properly sucks. On 18.11.2015 18:41, Tomáš Čech wrote:
Hi,
It would be nice if you could separate your hatred against SUSE company from the technical points. Technical points are interesting, those emotional agitations not.
Best regards,
Tomas Cech
It's not "hatred against SUSE company", it's hatred against any self-important single-minded group that thinks that dissenting opinion is wrong by default and should be ignored and thwarted at all costs, which is prevalent in any corporate environments due to bosses selecting yes-men for themselves as attempt to avoid "challenge" from "unworthy" underlings. Your answer is nothing more than a reciprocal "emotional agitation" for which the same stands only without any technical point. Judging by discussion in http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-11/msg00453.html it seems as a systematic approach, in-company policy based on common mentality. Therefore I strongly advise to meditate on the idea that sometimes unwanted "emotional agitations" may be a result of fair judgement of your actions or inactions.