2011/11/28 Markus Slopianka <markus.s@kdemail.net>:
On Montag 28 November 2011 22:34:06 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Anyway, could you please add a link? I still can´t believe it.... Really, that´s just bullshit.
My original complaint was a formal bug report regarding that openSUSE ships some untested snapshot of alpha-quality Chromium as part of the standard repository: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=731832
Markus, I've installed Chromium during that thread. I've made a bug report which ended up being a false positive meanwhile, and it was stetics. Other than that, it's been working perfectly (I do use Adobe blob for flash player). Raymond's work just wiped out Chrome from my machine. I'm just crazy enough for even supporting Chromium becoming the default browser, as it would be nice if someone with some extra time could help him in improvng quality. To me, it's a plus. This is my stance towards chromium.
Then Raymond brought that issue to the Project mailing list (not Factory, btw): http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2011-11/msg00144.html In that mail he also writes that the "current procedure" is a "weekly update" (= a new untested snapshot every week as regular update).
Another thing... In the past Raymond was having his day on the contrib repository. First of all, it's somehow historic to me because the first package I've published on openSUSE was on contrib. But I always shared the opinion of others that it should be in Factory. I'm happy someone took some time to plan a merge of contrib to factory. It's good for users also as many interesting packages were being maintained there, a few examples: * Chromium; * Nearly a lot of language translation tools maintained by a Brazilian contributor. It's a shame tools like Virtaal had to leave in a less visible repository. * gtk-RecordMyDesktop - somehow interesting. * etc. Ok, this might be an incovenient to some users... but come on... if you don't like it, don't install it, or if you can help the people maintaining it for mutual profit. So yeah, I think it's disrepectful that such an assault is lead to someone who places a lot of time in a package that isn't really an easy one.
Nelson, who called my mail in this thread irony, then told me I should rather be grateful that Chromium is packaged at all than trying to point out to the packaging rules: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2011-11/msg00148.html
I didn't meant to make it sound personal, it's maybe related to how I see things. Irony is just a state of mind sometimes, it's not necessarily a bad thing. My apologies. Regarding the pakaging rules, I'd rather see it used as guidance to encourage for better contributions than as a "ban hammer". Many people are overrun with work, lets at least a give a real chance for those who are putting some work, and the way as I see it is to go pedagical on them and not just waving the sacred codex which scares people away...
SUSE Linux Products GmbH employees also wrote that shipping untested snapshots is absolutely fine. İsmail Dönmez for example: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2011-11/msg00155.html
This is somehow political to me, so I'll just be plain: I'm happy that there are lots of SUSE employees around, and I'm pretty sure all of them go far beyond the 'suse employee'. It's a big strength of the project and what keeps it moving...
My favourite reaction of a SUSE employee was the one from Pavol Rusnak who wrote that if one wants a rock-solid package, depending on openSUSE is wrong anyway and that the person should get official Google Chrome from a 3rd party (Google in this case): http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2011-11/msg00159.html
I couldn't agree more. I'd rather loose 100 pissed off users than an active contributor on a package that is somehow complicated. I did used a lot Chromium while I was playing around with Ubuntu GTK+ menu proxies :). I even helped fixing a bug where the icons were not being correctly displayed on task bars. I've installed it from 12.1 repositories, and it has not given any problems to me... In fact I'm using it to write this email. Other users might have some problems, they can always switch back to Chrome (more stable?). The real loss would be to kill Raymonds (or any other contributor) joy in working the package. For all the rest of us, instead of waving the Ban Hammer, lets just maybe help improving the package and maybe helping Raymond to test it better and submit bug reports. If you look carefully at bugzilla, not many people submiting them and those who are filed are somehow looked after. Sorry to ear it's not working for you, but it's for some of us.
Other non-SUSE community members also agreed with Raymond that shipping weekly untested snapshots is fine with only myself and Stephan Kulow (in a bug report comment) preferring tested build.
If he's willing to change it, sure. If anyone can help him improve, that would be just lovely :)
So effectively the policy of freezes and quality assurance was overthrown because 'Chromium is shiny' or whatever the proponents of untested weekly snapshots thought...
That's the problem... I don't know how you measure quality, but through the eyes of a marketeer in a simple way: Quality = Satisfaction > Expectation If we are not part of the solution, then we are part of the problem. The math is quite simple.
Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Nelson Marques /* http://www.marques.so nmo.marques@gmail.com */ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org