Andreas Jaeger wrote:
As far as I know, there's still no integrated solution to the vmware status reporting case (which is incidentally equivalent to a few services I run). Upstream's unwillingness to provide such a simple facility is quite misterious.
What exactly is the vmware status reporting case? Please show an example...
I assume it's the systemd assumption that a service is a running daemon and that the status can be checked by checking on that daemon. Whereas, the status (and the shutdown) of a virtual machine service means to locate all running VMs and trigger them to shut down. For several VM products, there *is* no controlling process for the VMs. There are several other use cases that have similar properties. That was an issue in 12.1, don't (yet) know if this assumption changed in 12.2. The systemd proponents on this list responded "then this is no service". The systemv proponents told them "but it was before". Several small shouting wars started. (Well, not a real flamewar, not like the r.a.sf-lovers split, back in 1991. :-)) When some people (me included) brought that issue up for 12.1, we got shut down -- in particular, I was flamed several times by Christian Rodriguez with him _never_ answering the actual technical question how to approach a solution for this problem. For me the most frustrating problem was: I don't know if that behavior is just related to local openSUSE folks, or it is shared upstream, too. If it's the latter, it's troubling. If it's the former, I can ignore them and it's no problem. Actually, these discussions were the reason why we didn't upgrade to 12.1, just installed it on a few VMs to try it. I know of several companies who ditched openSUSE for that reason (meaning the attitude of folks here "this is not our problem, go away", not the technical migration problems, they are to be expected at such a change.) Case in point just in this thread: Carlos pointed out that official openSUSE documentation is still missing systemd documentation; Christian shouts him down. He obviously even didn't *try* to understand Carlos' point. (You did, I know.) And while you can have your quarrels with Carlos' stand, sometimes he can be quite some nuisance -- he works hard to *help* beginners in the forums and the mailing lists; what I have not seen the folks shouting him down here doing with the same energy there. Quite to the contrary, some people in this thread just told him he's not relevant because he's not a developer. Not good. When I would want a pure-developer-focused distribution, I would install Gentoo or Arch. Or go back to Slackware, where we all started in 1993. (Ran SLS before, which was better than compiling it all myself in 1992.) My 0.04 cents (adjusted for inflation). Enough ranting, back to programming... Joachim (not an openSUSE developer, I'm active upstream, and I use S.U.S.E. Linux since 5.something ;-)) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod, Roedermark, Germany Email: jschrod@acm.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org