On 6/30/2011 2:10 PM, Greg KH wrote:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:01:42PM +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Thursday 30 June 2011 21:06:03 Greg KH wrote:
Users who want systemd can choose it during install. But it's too big a change to be the default choice. I don't want to change, until it's been proven and polished for several years.
I'm sorry to hear that, there are some distros that do provide you the choice of this, but I don't think that openSUSE will be one of them.
Why do you think so? Actually openSUSE usually provides nmore choice than Fedora/Debian
Than Debian? Seriously? Have you seen the different ways you can run things on there these days? With/without udev/hal/systemd/etc. are all "supported" as are other types of configurations and architectures that openSUSE and Fedora rightly don't support.
Now I personally like the way openSUSE handles this, and believe that you need to make some choices at some levels in order to provide a coherent system that works well together. Debian and Gentoo allow the users to make those choices much better than openSUSE and Fedora, and that's an explicit choice of all of these distros.
debian is not myspace, and opensuse is not facebook. I'm completely with Joe User. As one who has to maintain a bunch of boxes and has to spend a lot of time devising atomated procedures and training non-admins who never the less have to do adminly stuff because I cannot always be available, every backwards incompatible change, every change in default behavior, every thing that breaks because of little or no testing prior to making it part of the official system costs me lots of time I and my employer and my customers would rather I be spending doing other new stuff rather than just playing keep-up-with-suse just to maintain what I already had. Your passive aggressive remark is more true than I think you realize or than maybe Novell would wish. It's only inertia that has had me still using opensuse this long. I'd already invested a lot so it simply takes a lot of bad before it becomes rational to jump. But the overall nature of progress lately has gotten kind of slipshod and spotty. Things that used to work either no longer work or are removed entirely for lack of developers to maintain them. Decisions made that affect everyone for insufficient reasons and with insufficient gain in return for the pain. When I finally dig in and set up an archos or debian version of my production system, I may find that it's even harder to develop a consistent, scalable, reproduceable, maintanable, dependable system there. Maybe the grass isn't greener over there. But the point is, now I'm becoming more and more driven to find out. I didn't pick openSUSE by accident in the first place. This was very definitely the greenest grass when considering lots of different factors including projected admin environment stability across versions, based on history up to that point and speculation based on knowledge of the company and their likely plans and likely success. I knew I would some day hav lots of different boxes of lots of different ages and versions and I knew it would matter how much and in what ways those versions differed from each other. I can't have radically different education needed for each new box. I can't be the only one in my company who dares touch anything. I need to be able to tell some basic things to several of my other developers and know that it will be true on all boxes without requiring them to be so observant and knowledgeable that they can spot when it's wrong for some box, let alone figure out the new equivalent. I knew on linux this would not actually be possible to the impeccable extent that it was on SCO, but I knew if a distro cared to try, it could come pretty close without giving up the normal march of linux progress and if a distro didn't care to try then it could be utter unsupportable chaos. I didn't land here by accident and for a while at least I had no slightest interest in looking for a better platform to invest time in and to rely on. This isn't a case of yet another fickle user. But as the saying goes past performance and all that. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org