Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 06 September 2008 06:48:51 am Martin Schlander wrote:
Fredag 05 september 2008 19:57:36 skrev Fred A. Miller:
Michael Loeffler wrote:
We'll try to put again both KDEs on the media. Ok......thanks! I think all we need, ASSUMING KDE 4.2 is a FULL COMPLETE release for KDE 3.5, is to have 3.5 included with the next release of openSUSE. It can be dropped after that. It's still unknown when 11.2 is released - it might even have KDE 4.3 - if it's released in the fall of 2009 - which I consider likely given that 2009 is SLE year which will absorb much developer time.
But I can tell you right now with 100% certainty that neither KDE 4.2 nor 4.3 will be identical with KDE 3.5. And it's still extremely vague what you guys define as "full complete", to say the least.
Full complete means "all functions that I use", which is not well defined even by very organized people.
What is so difficult about knowing what is current in 3.5? Simply have the SAME configurations available in 4.*.
When I see "FULL, COMPLETE, FINISHED" after so many requests by KDE guys to name missing features and getting the same answer time and again, points to guys with to much time on their hands and wish to goof around with those "Linux zealots".
You don't live in the real world like some of us do.
Someone mentioned "can't hide taskbar". I used it once to check how it works, so, while I know what it is, I will not miss it a bit.
You sound like a "Softie," Rajko! Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't need by others! On a letter box type monitor, it's not as big a deal, but on a wide screen, most seen with laptops, you can recover some realestate that is desired by a LOT of users. It's one of the reasons that I removed 4.* from ALL clients that I had put it on...the complaints were 100% for ALL laptop users!
On the other side, ability to size and position taskbar in any direction with all icons in it, is for me feature that was missing since ever, and now I have it. Cry for old good hide etc, seems to be just "I didn't tried to find what's new, but I don't like it".
It's a good feature for some people...I don't need it, but that doesn't mean someone else doesn't.
Besides a couple of missing features and a few bugs, are only part of what people complain about regarding KDE4 - backwards compatibility of settings and simply being "different" are just as prominent complaints - and those "problems" are not exactly likely to diminish over time imho.
Differences will only grow. Once people realize that old settings were just the best approximation of graphical desktop, because computers at that time couldn't handle what they can today, requests for new type of features will multiply and number of differences will grow.
Oh really? The "old features" and "old configurabiltiy" don't have squat to do with new hardware or graphic desktop. It has EVERYTHING to do with have a desktop setup to work the way a USER wants it to....NOT a developer.
Furthermore, openSUSE 11.1 may attract hordes of these types of users from other distros, since it'll be the only major distro still shipping KDE3 on the media at that time (well, along with Debian Lenny). Therefore I think it's likely we'll still see a substantial segment of users demanding KDE3 at 11.2 time, maybe even bigger than now ;-)
That depends on if all the features of 3.5 are in 4.2.
So I think we should make an effort to communicate very clearly that 11.1 will be the very last release officially supporting KDE3 - and that attaching yourself deeper into a legacy desktop with no future, is probably not a very good idea for most people in the long run.
I agree. That would be a good reason to start limiting KDE3 support now, and make clear that there will be no KDE3 on 11.2 media, only in OBS for those that can't switch to KDE4 so fast. Although openSUSE is not a commercial version, by now it didn't left users in the cold, but it is time to move on.
No, that isn't a good idea....limited in 11.1. You only "move on" when you can take everyone else with you, unless you're anxious to reduce market share.
Other distributions force change because Linux can't stay with GUI developed for hardware capabilities from 2000. Presentations, or eyecandies, move from specialized applications to desktop, and if OS can't provide tools it will stay away from mainstream. Some use cases can live, even today, with a command line and everything between, but most of the users will appreciate smoother feeling of the new desktop once application developers get used to new tools and start using them more then now. Now is rush to move applications from 3 to 4, but then it will start time of GUI improvements.
For the last time, I, nor the majority are against 4.*!!! It's going to be, I hope, the best ever in time. But, it ISN'T now because (drum roll, once again) it ISN'T configurable like 3.5 nor has the features of 3.5. For 4.* to really succeed, it MUST have both. Fred -- "Security" in Windows comes from patching a sieve. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org