On Thursday, 12 April 2018 10:27 Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 11.04.2018 09:29, Michal Kubecek wrote:
And... why exactly? So far the only argument you presented (except for strong words like "abomination") was "it's SUSE-only". Should we drop YaST, based on the same logic? Or zypper?
YaST, I would not care too much. Zypper? Probably not.
But if all (maybe just all RPM based) distribution would agree on one package management tool, then that would certainly be an improvement.
If distributions gave up on giving their users something extra (like zypper, YaST, SaX, ...), what would be the point of having different distributions at all? Wallpapers, color schemes, default package selection and perhaps some default settings? I'm afraid that's not enough; after all, these are the things I have to change after every installation anyway. The reason I'm using openSUSE even if I wholeheartedly hate many decisions of the project in last ~5 years, even if I have my concerns about how the project is governed, is not because the login screen has green background (well, it does not, any more). It's because that something extra: OBS, zypper, YaST (I'm not using it much but it's good to have it when I need to configure something I'm not familiar with, e.g. printing). Even wicked is one of those reasons. I must admit I was reluctant about it at first and I was genuinely unhappy when I learned it's not going to be an alternative to the traditional scripts but a replacement. But I learned to live with it and I appreciate that it doesn't get in my way if I don't want it to (which is hardly something I could say about systemd-* tools in general). There are bugs, sure, but they are dealt with by competent developers.
But for wicked. Well, I was at the openSUSE conference in Prague when it was presented, and it was a typical "we invent something before looking left and right what's already there" thing. Actually I still can remember Olaf's puzzled face when the RedHat developers (there was not only openSUSE conf but some other conferences at the same time at the same venue, and so other distro developers were present) asked "why didn't you work with us to get this into the upcoming systemd-networkd?"
I guess this "puzzled face" was mostly because at the time, there was not much of systemd-networkd. Not much more than an idea that if the great plan is to replace all system tools by some systemd-something (which is philosophy I totally disagree with), network configuration management shouldn't be an exception. Six years later, wicked has been in use in SLE for 3.5 years and even if, as you claim, everyone else is happily working on systemd-networkd, it's not on par with wicked, not by far. So... who should be accused of "NIH syndrome" and asked why they insist on developing their own solution rather than joinin the work on existing one?
and he had to admit that he never looked if there are other projects that do the same.
I've been there (chairing the session, actually) and I remember one of the two (don't remember if Olaf or Mariusz) talking about existing tools and explaining why they didn't want to use any of them. And, as I said, systemd-networkd couldn't really be considered "other project" at the moment.
Reminded me of the Old (Y2K) SUSE style of bad NIH syndrome.
As I said above, that's rather problem of systemd-networkd in this case.
You don't even know if systemd-networkd can actually do everything we use wicked for but you are absolutely sure switching to it would be an improvement?
I'm fighting wicked every day. I'm quite sure almost everything would be an improvement ;-)
That's a common mistake. People tend to think that if they dislike something, anything else would be better. In reality, it rarely works like that. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org