[Bug 1205407] New: EFI partition very high minimum size
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 Bug ID: 1205407 Summary: EFI partition very high minimum size Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE Distribution Version: Leap 15.5 Hardware: Other OS: openSUSE Leap 15.4 Status: NEW Severity: Minor Priority: P5 - None Component: Basesystem Assignee: screening-team-bugs@suse.de Reporter: contact@ericlevy.name QA Contact: qa-bugs@suse.de Found By: --- Blocker: --- The installer requires that the EFI partition have a capacity no less than one half gigabyte. In practice, the GRUB bootloader files consume about one percent on this capacity. Since resizing the boot partition is cumbersome, it is helpful to allocate a generous capacity, in excess of the expected need, but the present requirement is extreme. Installers for some OSs enforce a minimum of one quarter gigabyte, and even a capacity so high seems extreme. Unless a system is to be loaded with utilities from the hardware vendor that would run in the EFI environment, usage requirements exceeding 100 megabytes would be extremely rare. It would be helpful if the installer imposed no lower limit on the size of the EFI partition, although a warning against a very small size may be appropriate, for example, recommending but not enforcing a minimum of 100 gigabytes. Many may choose an even smaller size, without ever regretting it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 Chenzi Cao <chcao@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assignee|screening-team-bugs@suse.de |yast2-maintainers@suse.de -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c2 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |ancor@suse.com --- Comment #2 from Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.com> --- The min and max sizes are (auto)documented here (at the bottom): https://github.com/yast/yast-storage-ng/blob/master/doc/boot-requirements.md If the disk is "big enough" (that's defined by the minimal and desired sizes of the volumes defined at the control file[1]) the bigger margins are applied: - at least 256 MiB (min size for FAT32 in drives with 4-KiB-per-sector) - at most 512 MiB (enough space for several operating systems) Only if the disk is too small (that is, it cannot accommodate the desired volume sizes), it fallbacks to: - at least 128 MiB (MS Windows requires 100 MiB for itself) - at most 512 MiB (enough space for several operating systems) Of course, everyone has their own opinion. But those values seem to work well enough in all scenarios (which doesn't imply they cannot be re-evaluated). [1] https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/blob/master/control/control.... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c3 Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |lubos.kocman@suse.com Flags| |needinfo?(lubos.kocman@suse | |.com) --- Comment #3 from Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.com> --- Those partition min sizes are a topic for neverending discussion. Yes, if we demand a too large min size, in many scenarios, disk space goes to waste. But once it's created, it's really hard to increase its size; because the other partitions will be in the way. But we can never know what the future will hold; if another OS will ever be installed in parallel on that machine, and how much disk space on the EFI boot partition that other OS will need. We (SUSE Linux), as it stands right now, don't install much to that partition; only Grub2 second stage and some files of moderate size. But our intention was to remain future-proof; who knows what else you may want to install on that machine int he future. But let's include the openSUSE PM in this discussion. Lubos? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c4 Lubos Kocman <lubos.kocman@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flags|needinfo?(lubos.kocman@suse | |.com) | --- Comment #4 from Lubos Kocman <lubos.kocman@suse.com> --- If we have to revisit this topic, then I'd like to take the same choice that will be in the ALP. Therefore I defer to discussion with the Bootable images work group. My personal view: I like the minimal and recommended sizes documented in https://github.com/yast/yast-storage-ng/blob/master/doc/boot-requirements.md I recall bugs where the partition was too small for certain use cases. Disk size is cheap, reducing the size again could lead to new bugs in corner cases, etc. My preference is to be on the safe side and stay with the current implementation. As we've discussed on IRC, all new HW nowadays usually comes with 1TB drives. Aside from that 512 MB seem to be in sync with Fedora, so I don't see a big reason to change it. Is there any chance that OEMs would be utilizing some more space there? Let me ask Tuxedo. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 Lubos Kocman <lubos.kocman@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |vinz@vinzv.de Flags| |needinfo?(vinz@vinzv.de) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c5 --- Comment #5 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> --- Data: Current Tumbleweed kernels need about 40M each, in /boot. If purge-kernels.service is disabled for whatever reason or you do manual installations, they can creep up sometimes. [I chose a 256MiB /boot ext2 partition (df reports 238M) volume, and it gives me capacity for (just) 5 kernels. ESP is separate at 100M.] 12:32 f3:../efi/EFI # du -s * 1524 Boot 25554 Microsoft 3193 opensuse So that's whatever MS typically contributes in file size. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c7 --- Comment #7 from Lukas Ocilka <locilka@suse.com> --- (In reply to Felix Miata from comment #6)
If an over-ample swap partition is located adjacent to the ESP, then it's easy to resize the ESP larger if and when found necessary, by deleting the swap and recreating it modestly smaller.
Then you are an expert user and you should know what you are doing when using a smaller partition and you have an exit strategy when things go South. But the Installer (and many other things too) is designed for an average user with rather smaller knowledge with no exit strategy. So we are usually on the safer side of solutions. We can't expect that a common Leap/TW user should be able to recreate the partitioning when a problem arises. Such user would not be able to find out that such solution would help anyway. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c9 --- Comment #9 from Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.com> --- (In reply to Felix Miata from comment #8)
When the user posts his partitioning in response for more information, a helper would be able to notice adjacence and suggest a shrink the swap solution. This would only be likely were the installer in the habit of placing the swap adjacent to the ESP instead of elsewhere.
IMHO it's much more user-friendly not to get the user into that situation in the first place; for example, by not taking a risk with an EFI partition that might turn out to be too small. It's better to prevent the accident than to heal the wounds. ;-) At least on the PC platform, 1 TB or larger HDs are the norm, and even SSDs below 256 GB are being faded out (my 160 GB SSD from some years ago is becoming a rare thing, I believe). So I really believe that trying to save, say, 200 MB on a smaller EFI partition is counterproductive for most users. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 Jeffrey Cheung <jcheung@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jcheung@suse.com -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c10 --- Comment #10 from Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.com> --- @vinz: This is waiting for input from you; see comment #4. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c11 --- Comment #11 from Eric Levy <contact@ericlevy.name> --- Please note, the request is not to change the default size, only the minimum size, that is, to allow the user performing the install to select a size smaller than the default. EFI partitions are routinely created with sizes of 100M or smaller. The overwhelming majority of systems receiving an installation of a Linux server will hold only Grub in the EFI partition, not non-Linux boot loaders nor Linux kernels. Adding an advanced option with a warning is unlikely to be harmful for inexperienced users. As variously stated, the partition size is extremely difficult to change once chosen. Unlike other default install options that may be changed on the active system, partitioning is essentially permanent. Providing no option in the installer ensures that even advanced administrators are prevented from defining an system appropriate for their needs. Inevitably, some administrators will manually adjust the partition arrangement after installation, which includes shifting all data from the main partition, if the allowed options are not suitable. Such cases will generate considerable frustration, due to the installer not accepting the desired choice. Providing an advanced option accompanied by a warning would appear to offer a sensible compromise. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c12 --- Comment #12 from Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.com> --- (In reply to Eric Levy from comment #11)
Please note, the request is not to change the default size, only the minimum size, that is, to allow the user performing the install to select a size smaller than the default.
With the Expert Partitioner is perfectly possible to create an EFI partition of any size. The minimum size is not the minimum allowed by the installer in general, is the minimum that will be auto-suggested by the Guided Setup.
[....] Providing no option in the installer ensures that even advanced administrators are prevented from defining an system appropriate for their needs.
Advanced administrators can use the Expert Partitioner to create a custom partitioning. In fact, I would be surprised if an advanced administrator sticks to the result of the Guided Setup. And, as said, there is nothing in the Expert Partitioner preventing an EFI of any size.
Inevitably, some administrators will manually adjust the partition arrangement after installation, which includes shifting all data from the main partition, if the allowed options are not suitable. Such cases will generate considerable frustration, due to the installer not accepting the desired choice.
Again. The choice is accepted by the installer. It's simply not suggested by the Guided Setup. I would expect an administrator that is capable of rearrange everything and shift data between partitions after installation to also be able to use the Expert Partitioner during installation.
Providing an advanced option accompanied by a warning would appear to offer a sensible compromise.
Again, there is such an option and is called Expert Partitioner, which I think it's a quite valid name. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c13 Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME Flags|needinfo?(vinz@vinzv.de) | --- Comment #13 from Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.com> --- With comment #12 this should now finally be clarified. To summarize: - That minimum size is not a minimum for creating that partition manually in the expert partitioner, just for the automatic storage proposal. - An advanced user can use the expert partitioner to create a smaller partition, if desired. - Less advanced users should leave the default. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c14 --- Comment #14 from Eric Levy <contact@ericlevy.name> --- I believe the intention of my original report was to explain that the minimum size is being enforced in expert mode, not simply chosen as the automatic default. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1205407#c15 --- Comment #15 from Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.com> --- (In reply to Eric Levy from comment #14)
I believe the intention of my original report was to explain that the minimum size is being enforced in expert mode, not simply chosen as the automatic default.
Which I believe it's not accurate. If I'm not mistaken, the only thing the Expert Partitioner enforces is the existence of a file-system mounted as "/". All the other warnings are just suggestions the user can ignore. To confirm my memories, I just tried it again in Leap 15.4 (things should not have changed since then): 1) If I use the Expert Partitioner and create a setup with NO EFI AT ALL, I get a pop-up saying: "The system might not be able to boot. Missing device for /boot/efi with size equal or bigger than 128 MiB and filesystem vfat. Do you want to continue?" Of course, I can continue. 2) If I define a setup with a /boot/efi of 64 MiB (or even smaller) everything works without a single warning or pop-up. If that behavior is different with the prototypes of Leap 15.5 that's fully unexpected looking at the source code and the history of changes in that area. If you can confirm the behavior of 15.5 differs from what I have written, feel free to re-open the bug. If not, I think closing the bug report is fully justified because the current behavior is far from "the minimum size is being enforced". -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
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