[Bug 1202066] New: Several instances of FileZilla were INVISIBLY run at startup after reboot
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 Bug ID: 1202066 Summary: Several instances of FileZilla were INVISIBLY run at startup after reboot Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE Tumbleweed Version: Current Hardware: x86-64 OS: openSUSE Tumbleweed Status: NEW Severity: Critical Priority: P5 - None Component: Other Assignee: screening-team-bugs@suse.de Reporter: php4fan@gmail.com QA Contact: qa-bugs@suse.de Found By: --- Blocker: --- OpenSUSE has this "feature" that I absolutely hate that when you restart, it automatically starts whatever applications you had running when you restarted. I'm sure I can disable it somewhere but that's not the point: as long as this feature exists, it has to work decently. Actually, it has to work perfectly, but decently would be a start. So, here's what happened. I had one (ONE) instance of FileZilla open and I restarted the system. After restart, FileZilla didn't seem to be running. There was no FileZilla window anywhere, and is pinned icon in the task manager was not highlighted. This was not a problem, because as I said, I don't even like applications that I left open to be automatically started after reboot, so the less there are the better, and I didn't even notice. I didn't remember that I had left it open. SPOILER: in reality it _was_ running but as I said, I had no way of knowing. So, I rebooted several times because I was trying installing and uninstalling stuff repeatedly, so I rebooted half a dozen times. Never did I ever notice that filezilla was running. Now, it doesn't matter what made me think of it, but I ran this in a terminal: $ ps aux | grep filezilla and it turned out there were half a dozen processes of it running. One for every time that I had rebooted. So I hit Alt+Tab and found out that there were a bunch of FileZilla windows, but it was not the main window, but rather a popup with an error message that said that there were some issues with utf8 characters in filenames or whatnot. So there are several things that went wrong here: 1. The feature that, at startup, automatically launches the applications that were left open prior to reboot, is completely broken. Most of these applications have issues when run this way. FileZilla always shows this error related to utf-8 or unicode or whatever when launched automatically at startup (it does not show the error when launched manually normally). Thunderbird is forever unable to connect to the network when it is launched this way. While probably each of those applications have their own bugs, you are clearly launching them "too soon" or in some wrong way. So, this is one issue, leading to FileZilla showing (or wanting to show) that error popup 2. The popup with the error message didn't actually popup. It was somehow buried behind other windows, or completely invisible. Only when I used Alt+Tab was I ever able to discover its existence. That's wrong on its own 3. FileZilla's icon in the task manager should have been highlighted, so that I should have been able to see that there was, in fact, a filezilla window open (the error message popup), and I should have been able to access it by clicking on the task-manager icon (which instead would open a brand new FileZilla window). But no, the popup apparently doesn't count as window for the task manager. Only after I close the error popup, does the icon in the task manager become highlighted. 4. When I rebooted again, with the filezilla process running, with the invisible error-message popup waiting to be discovered and closed, after reboot, somehow TWO FileZilla processes were launched; and at the next reboot they were 3, and so on. Actually, I can't be sure of that. All I know for sure is that after like 6 or 7 reboots I had like 6 or 7 filezilla processes running, all of them with the error popup waiting to be closed (which I found and closed one by one with Alt+Tab). The whole thing is ridiculous. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c1 Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de Assignee|screening-team-bugs@suse.de |ecsos@schirra.net Severity|Critical |Normal --- Comment #1 from Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> --- Fixing severity to reflect actual impact. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c2 --- Comment #2 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> ---
Fixing severity to reflect actual impact.
Having several instances of a given program running and having no clue of it; and having error popups not pop up on the foreground: these two things can have disastrous consequences even separately, let alone combined together. I was lucky that in my case it was just FileZilla and just a stupid irrelevant error. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c3 --- Comment #3 from Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> --- See https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/page.cgi?id=importance_matrix.html for the severity criteria we would like you to apply. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c4 --- Comment #4 from Eric Schirra <ecsos@schirra.net> --- Question. When I understand this entry, then FileZilla only serves as an example for your problem. Right? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c5 --- Comment #5 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> ---
then FileZilla only serves as an example for your problem. Right?
It happened to me with FileZilla, but it seems to me it could happen with other applications meeting similar conditions. It's not something that I can try to test at will with other applications because: I would at least need an applications that I know will systematically throw an error if left open prior to reboot and relaunched at startup; and also such that it won't open its "main" window until the error popup is closed. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de | -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c6 Eric Schirra <ecsos@schirra.net> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de Flags| |needinfo?(Andreas.Stieger@g | |mx.de) --- Comment #6 from Eric Schirra <ecsos@schirra.net> --- So I tested this in a virtual machine. Especially with FileZilla. And I can't reproduce any error. Everything reopens, or is open after a reboot, and continues to run without error. Latest updates with sudo zypper dup were installed. I think you have a different problem. And it has nothing to do with FileZilla either. @Andreas: What do you think we should do? Is it possible to close the bug? According to my test it has nothing to do with FileZilla, because FileZilla is running. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c7 Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flags|needinfo?(Andreas.Stieger@g | |mx.de) | --- Comment #7 from Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> --- Hello Eric, thanks for asking and spending the time trying the issue. Looking at bug 1186130 and bug 1185475 the reporter is experiencing problems with locales. As in.. a lot. (bug 1186098, bug 1187513, bug 1189114). There may be other contributing factors such as mixing repositories and not being able to diagnose related issues, but that may be taking it too far off track. Closing in on the issue... As the reporter has indicated the popup is related to this encoding issue. Generalizing, the Filezilla UI seems to have an issue being (re)started while showing a modal dialog on start-up, thus confusing the user with whether Filezilla is actually running. Restarting applications is a desktop function, unlikely that we find a way to please every special person other than offering to make the restart functionality configurable (which I think it is). The most likely fix is upstream in the Filezilla code. As a way forward you have multiple options. You could ask the reporter for reproduction steps on a clean installation via NEEDINFO, so that we can observe the issue. This may help to make the issue observable, it also a reasonable ask given the references above. But only if you plan to fix this downstream via a tweak. The alternative, and my recommendation based in no small part on I gathered from this user, that you close this issue as RESOLVED-UPSTREAM, and ask the user to report this issue with the upstream project. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c8 --- Comment #8 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> ---
and ask the user to report this issue with the upstream project.
I'd be happy to. What is the relevant upstream project? Or rather projectS, because the issues at hand may be multiple: - error popups not being brought to the top-front - popups not being shown as icons in the task manager even when they are an application's only "window" - the restarting of applications at startup (or maybe the way they are handled at shutdown) being broken in that it may end up opening duplicates Are all of these in one single project? Actually, there may be already reports, even of mine, about the first two which I have definitely observed separately in different contexts. My concern in this report was more specifically the third point. FileZilla's issues with locale (and possibly some locale issues outside of filezilla) are completely besides the point of this report, they're just a triggering factor here. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c9 --- Comment #9 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> ---
You could ask the reporter for reproduction steps on a clean installation via NEEDINFO, so that we can observe the issue
Don't waste time on that, I have no idea how to reproduce on a clean installation and I'm certainly not gonna try. A guess, though, is that you would need (among other things) to have some file with unicode characters in its filename (utf-8 encoded?) like an � or an �, in whatever local folder FileZilla is going to open by default. Then maybe you need to have FileZilla launch in a way that somehow is not aware of the UTF8 locale. But maybe this part would take care of itself, because obviously I never did anything to provoke that, and this may be the very bug either in FileZilla or in the startup-application-restart mechanism that triggers the error. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c10 Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |UPSTREAM --- Comment #10 from Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> --- Correct. Not wasting time. Report to upstream filezilla. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c11 --- Comment #11 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> ---
Report to upstream filezilla.
I thought you had understood that this is not a FileZilla issue. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c12 --- Comment #12 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> --- Sorry, I should have said "I thought we had established" -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c13 --- Comment #13 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> --- And I didn't mean "don't waste trying to reproduce", I meant "don't waste time putting this in NEEDINFO and expecting me to do that". BTW, the locale thing with FileZilla I already reported upstream ages ago, but I don't think any of the maintainers/developers ever look at their bugtracker. I've never seen a single response to a bug report I've followed in ages (and i'm NOT talking about just my own reports), and I've seen bugs fixed after years without the bug report ever getting a single action or comment. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c14 Eric Schirra <ecsos@schirra.net> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flags| |needinfo? --- Comment #14 from Eric Schirra <ecsos@schirra.net> --- Thanks Andreas for your feedback and detailed explanation. I can't recreate the problem myself. I don't have any problems with FileZilla. There are no popups. Rebooting the system while Filezilla is running does not cause any problems either. So for me everything works exactly as it should. And teo himself writes it has nothing to do with filezilla. So teo. I recommend you to set up a clean system in a VM and then try to reproduce your problem. If you manage it, please open a ticket at Upstream. Nobody can help you here. Sorry. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c15 --- Comment #15 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> ---
Nobody can help you here.
I'm not asking for help at all. I experienced a behavior that is broken and I reported it so that you can investigate and fix it, if you care, which at this point is obvious you don't. I think I provided enough information to both unequivocally show that something is wrong AND point at some direction to go to in order to investigate it (of course it would be much better if I was able to narrow it down further, but this is what I got). If you expect every bug report to have (or every bug reporter to provide) a ready-to-use set of reproduction steps that you can just run on your machine, you are going to lose a lot of opportunities to detect and fix issues. Then I don't see the point of having a public bugtracker.
I recommend you to set up a clean system in a VM and then try to reproduce your problem.
I recommend you do that if you care about fixing the issue. I have no reason to do that. I'm not into developing the OS or any of its parts. I just use it. For myself, all I need is a workaround, which in this case is just to live with the issue, because once I know about it, it's no big deal and I can easily avoid it. I had no need to report the issue in the first place.
If you manage it, please open a ticket at Upstream.
I ask again: upstream where? It's obviously not Filezilla. As I understand it, the job of a distribution maintainer (I don't mean any of you as a person, I mean OpenSUSE as an organization, I don't care whether it's run by a corporation, a community or whatever) is to put together a system that works. Part of that, again as I understand it, is to detect issues that arise from different softwares from different vendors interacting with each other, find the culprit(s) and report them upstream (or patch it downstream I guess in some cases) I'm not trying to tell you what you should, I'm explaining why to me it seemed the right thing to do to report this to OpenSUSE, since I don't know enough about the issue to report it upstream myself (starting with to whom). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c16 Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flags|needinfo? | --- Comment #16 from Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gmx.de> --- teo you have had similar interactions with multiple open source projects and distributions. Your approach to these things is not leading you to success, and you should consider that pattern and the root cause for it. Frankly I am no longer interested in what you consider contribution. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c17 --- Comment #17 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> ---
Your approach to these things is not leading you to success
Indeed, so far such interactions of mine have rarely (not never) been "successful" in helping people fix issues in their software, sadly. And most of the times it was because of attitudes rather similar to yours, refusing to take action based on the information I offered, because they disliked they way I presented it. I have to say, in several occasions, afterwards the issues were actually diagnosed, addressed and fixed regardless, revealing my original reports to be correct, but nevertheless they had been ignored and hence an opportunity to fix the issues sooner was missed.
I am no longer interested in what you consider contribution
You never were and that much was already clear. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202066#c18 --- Comment #18 from teo teo <php4fan@gmail.com> --- And just to clarify, I develop software too, and when I get reports from users that something isn't working, I get the shittiest imaginable reports, with no context, insufficient information, nonsensical speculation about imagined causes indistinguishable from actual information of what's observed, nothing even remotely reminiscent of steps to reproduce. And I don't blame the user or ask them to do my job. I take the reports for what they are, if I have a chance I ask for more information but if that's not possible I just work with what I have, and I start investigating. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
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