Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1355 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] zypper dup very busy defragging btrfs, when there is nobtrfs partition...
  • From: "Knurpht @ openSUSE" <knurpht@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 20:07:30 +0200
  • Message-id: <1605900.5O6SiEcIhD@knurpht-hp>
Op vrijdag 8 juni 2018 17:38:55 CEST schreef Rodney Baker:
On Saturday, 9 June 2018 0:23:29 ACST Richard Brown wrote:
[...]

If you start using another file system then I would expect that in order
to
administer it you would bring in the necessary toolbox to support it,
and
that includes what GParted would see the wrenches now needed.

Surely the RPM system has this capability? Surely dependencies aren't
an
all or nothing matter?

I do see your point about not always being online, but then again,
wearing
my sysadmin hat, I can't see starting to use a new type of FS without
the
supporting tools to manage it. And I don't see why things I'm never
going to use are forced upon me.

What scares me is that logical consequence of mandating stuff like this,
even if it is never going to be used, is that it is going to be simpler
to just load everything in all the repositories that you have
configured,
regardless.

gparted requires a whole bunch of tools regardless of whether or not
they're used by a system
e2fsprogs
xfsprogs
jfsutils
hfsutils
nilfs-utils
ntfsprogs
btrfsprogs

If you removed all of them gparted would be rather useless..

And there is no magic RPM dependency flag that lets RPM psychically
know all the filesystems that you have (or more importantly, going to
have) on your system

Especially in the era of NAS', SANs' and software defined storage
where block devices (with whatever filesystems contained within) could
be dissapearing and reappearing at a whim

Your 'sysadmin hat' sounds old and moth eaten - we're in more and more
of a devops world where a single sysadmin is unlikely to be in total
control of what their developers & users are connecting to your
servers, VMs, cloud guests, or containers.

I think in that case it most certainly makes good sensible engineering
sense to have a system that could handle all supported filesystems

And in the case of btrfs, it's the default and the recommended for the
root filesystem for openSUSE, so it would be insane to make it an
optional dependency even if there was magic RPM filesystems-in-use &
filesystems-in-future flags

I think you missed the point. When you **install** btrfs it should bring in
the tools i.e. btrfsprogs should be dependency of btrfs, not gparted (and
the same applies to other fs's), and it should be possible to install a
system without it (i.e. to choose what filesystems and associated tools are
installed or not).

It is possible, no doubt. And doing that for other FS's you don't use yourself
brings back the olden days, where machines could only read the FS's it used
itself, i.e. NTFS and FAT.
I would very much like to remove all traces of btrfs
from all of my systems - I detest it! The day I'm forced to use it will be
the day I switch distros, before I end up with an unbootable and
unrecoverable system again.

I don't trust btrfs, and I don't think I ever will after previous
experiences.


--
Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht
openSUSE Board Member
openSUSE Forums Team



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