Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (856 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] interesting reading about systemd
On 10/02/2016 01:50 PM, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 10:28 AM, <stakanov@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Interesting reading thank you. By what is says it confirms partly the criticism
and in part is able to make some points.
What is puzzling me that the post of Ayer is perceived as a "anti-systemd-fanatic". When
I was reading it, I did not see this as a call to "abandon" systemd, but to limit some
tendencies. I see it as interesting contribution and I am puzzled about not few about the
assertions Strauss makes in his post.
And not the minor this:

"As most, it would justify a call to fork systemd and reverse the umask
default".

WTF, are we now only able through forking to reconsider problems when pointed
out? Maybe it is THIS attitude that calls for abandoning a software, not the
points themselves.
For what I see, the post makes me more worried then not having read it. It seems as much
"religious" and biased as the first.
I will hold in mind that there are justified critiques and points in the first post and
that unfortunately there is a tendency to bash whatever criticism, as there is as well
the tendency to bloat criticism of pitfalls on the other side. All this is not really a
good "clima". YMMV.
systemd to me personally has always seemed to be a solution in search
of a problem. While sysVinit had it's flaws, it worked. The devs
behind systemd seem to be trying to take over the linux ecosystem by
proxy.

IMNSHO, the biggest reason linux has never taken over the desktop is
the fact that it is so fractured with hundreds of distros With
WinDoZe & MacOS you basically have one codebase/one desktop
environment for each. With the BSDs, you have maybe a dozen. With
Linux we have so many that we duplicate so much work. Each distro has
a customized version of a software package(say Firefox) and then there
are different versions of the distros. I wonder how much diskspace
the whole linux ecosystem takes up on mirrors compared to WinDoZe or
macOS.........

And so many packages that I could care less about: Avahi, pulseaudio,
NetworkManager(so I'm doing a transfer in a virtual terminal and I log
out of my X session - the network goes down.....), semantic
desktop(still waiting to see what the point of that is), 3d desktop,
desktop search(beagle, tracker, etc). There's more of course.

However a lot of people want/use those packages so who am I to say no
to them? All I ask for is an easy way to NOT have them installed if I
chose.

Open Source/GNU/Linux/FOSS is supposed to be about choice. When
people tell others to get over it and this is the way it is, then
choice is being reduced. systemd took over because of limited
resources and everyone was using it. While I never cared for KDE4, I
am able to choose to use TrinityDE(KDE3 continuation) instead.
Fortunately, someone decided to take up the challenge to give them
self and others a choice. That's what we should be encouraging
instead of comments like this:

"There's always Devuan for those anti-systemd fanatics."

Actually systemd wrapped up things into one nice package and got rid of age-old cruft. Finally Linux systems are a joy to administer. So on one hand you're saying Linux isn't successful because it's fractured. Okay, systemd came into solve a bunch of problems (and did so well), and did exactly what you are stating is the downfall of Linux. But, you still are complaining. And now this thread is going to start into another systemd war which I really don't care to read because the debate is over. systemd is here to stay, if you don't like it, go to devuan.

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