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[opensuse] Re: interesting reading about systemd - Sunday reply
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 10/02/2016 05:08 AM, stakanov@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
His second point is that using interfaces that are only usable through
systemd are like a vendor lock in. And in this I am quite able to follow the
argument, things should stay modular.

That that sort of misses the point, doesn't it?

First the old sysv-init parts were only usable with BASH. Not the original
Bourne shell, not the enhanced 1988 model Bourne shell. Not the C shall and not
some of the other alternative shells.
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??? Seems like it was open to POSIX compatible shells: sh/bash/ksh.

What interpreter was used was specified on the 1st line. I saw
many with /bin/sh, though I would guess the majority were /bin/bash because it
is able to say more with less (more power, more consise).

Oh, and not with Windows, either. Or the Atari, the PlayStation or the X-Box.
Or VMS. Or VM/CMS.
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Neither systemd. These are *nix offerings -- but you can run
bash on Windows, either under cygwin or native. From what I hear, MS will
be offering bash-native as an alternative shell under Win10.

If you want the POSIX startup -- run cygwin and write it.
It's not that sysV can't startup the system, but MS doesn't provide the
hooks for it.



And yes, I know, each of those does 'vendor lock-in' as well.

So its a fundamentally irrelevant argument.
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Baloney! SysV doesn't put the vendor lock-in in its offering.
With a shell script, it can call anything. It's important as to where the
vendor lock-in is. If it is at the system level like Windows and systemd
(requires it be started 1st), then you can't add to it using off-the-shelf
parts that read stdin & write stdout/err.


The second this is that systemd *is* modular.
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Bull. Show me where I can replace the part that sits @ pid=1
with a simple script.

That it depends on sending messages via the D-Bus or sockets to the init process
doesn't make it any less modular than the dependency sysv-init has on the shell.
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Sorry, but the script parts communicate with pipes and text. That's
the way the *entire* user-space works. To move to requiring special formats and special sockets, etc is not open or modular.


I recall reading about a comparison with VMS in the 1980s. A VMS developer in
California commented that the bookshelf of the VMS documentation was a major
threat if it collapsed on him in an earthquake. The UNIX documentation of the
time, even the bloated USG version which I still have, occupied less than half a
shelf.
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Right, because the interface between parts in Unix was *simple*. Vs.
VMS/Windows/Systemd = structured and specific. You can't just "echo" a string
into a DBUS socket.

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