Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (911 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Wiki as foundation of a community
jdd schreef op 28-12-2015 9:11:
Le 28/12/2015 06:11, Xen a écrit :

first of all, thanks opening this thread. Looks like the wiki is
deprecated (given the place of the link on the main page), but it
should not. Richard said that now the wiki is more opened, that is -if
I get it well- mean that the necessity of peer review before
publication is removed and it's a good thing.

Thanks for being appreciative. Doesn't happen too much in my life.


So indeed there was such a necessity. Of course, that is what I mean.

That means the wiki was meant for employees, not for users (to edit).

The priority have to be the information, not the structure. This don't
mean that the structure is unimportant, but we can promote the "recent
change" link to ask old timers to fix new pages problems.

The structure is the form. The form can be like the door with a thousand
locks: it keeps people away, even if the information contained "behind"
the door might be attractive.

And that was my point: if there is no allowance for divergence and 'being
your own thing' -- if the entire wiki has to be a reviewed, consistent,
congruent, monolithic piece of information, then you cannot enter there
as a user. It also means any form of reorganisation is and can only be done
by "qualified" people. So if there is ever going to be a reorganisation, it
is going to be done by a few very central people, but not by any larger
group that does it "as they go". Organically. That is what I mean.

Wikis are necessarily and naturally organic organisations of knowledge.
Right now the wiki is not.

I access the wiki mostly with google search, adding simply "opensuse"
on the search content. Many wiki pages are extremely well done, but
also many needs updating after each new distro, specially now for

But being extremely well done is not the most important thing, you know.

Sorry if I'm being argumentative, I'm not sure why it is ending up this way.
Maybe because of the smiley ;-).

two ways: search with google (or any other search engine), or work to
make it better (like with this thread :-)

thanks ;-).

A wiki usually is a place where there's room for individuality. A good
wiki invites users to make their own custom personal pages.

I didn't understand you previous sentence. I have my personal page

always the same one since the beginning

Yes, but normally there is going to be a gradual difference between the "common"
wiki and the personal wiki. If the common wiki (shared wiki) is extremely strict,
there is not going to be much opportunity to start editing and there won't be
any opportunity to link to your personal page either.

This means community members/visitors/users won't have an opportunity to become a part, because they are too much apart.

The distance is too great.

There is an history around this. In short the wiki was free access
and, I admit, a mess. It was decided to make it wikipedia like. I was
against this decision because the wiki team was too small, and began
to remove the old wiki as first move. It's veru easy to organize a
wiki without removing anything, it's the very nature of a wiki, and by
this move all the previous links to the wiki where lost. Finally the
old wiki was kept, but with different address.

Right. Bad move indeed. If anything you have to reorganize what you have. I do it all the time with my files.

Any confluent wiki will invite editing by just about anyone. The WordPress Codex for instance is also a corpus but
individual authors/programmers are always allowed to edit it. Trusting your users and creating the atmosphere in
which it is fun to edit and create quality pages, is what makes a wiki come alive.

Existing pages invite you (not by word, but by form) to create additional pages of the same quality or improve pages
that already exist.

if any thing engage legally openSUSE at risk, it may have to be removed

That in itself is troublesome, but that was not the case. I just told them they (whomever they were) were idiots ;-).

Dirty laundry. They (whomever they are) don't want that ;-).

It is pretty but it doesn't work. It is not a website for people to feel
at home in. It is really a front page that scares you away: YOU DO NOT
WANT TO REVISIT THAT PAGE if you don't have to.

I mostly agree with you, but don't think it's so important. See my own
front page to understand:

not so a wow effect, bu perfectly useful for me.

Your site also doesn't work very well for being an attractive place to be. But that is mostly because most wiki
templates are butt-ugly, not really something you can do much about yourself, to be honest, and regretfully.

(For instance, I myself am still trying to perk up DokuWiki with a certain theme, and usually failing... ;-)).

But the OpenSUSE site really does the opposite of that: your site if functional, but ugly, the OpenSUSE site
is beautiful, but dysfunctional. If I am going to be rough about it.

And if it works well for you, that's fine. The blue is just a typical wiki-blue (the background) that I find
detestable. Many wikis use it. I am sometimes pained by the fact that I am so bad at (colour) graphical design.

Being a somewhat colour-blind person, I am great at layout, but I am rotten at creating colourful elements that
actually look nice together.

So personally I would instantly start improving your site, but that means improving the wiki ;-).

Tough luck for me then.

let alone the openSUSE front page. We can now work on the wiki.

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