Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (911 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] The Post that got Carlos ER Banded !!
jdd schreef op 26-12-2015 19:49:

I was saying the new system was making things harder to participate,
did people that wanted the new system really participate? They should.
I could do work in a more useful manner elsewhere. My idea was than
the only goal is to make people participate and the new system was
against that.

It looks like the translation problem is similar, it makes
participation harder, not simpler.

There was someone in Project who described the changes from the viewpoint of the translator.

It was said that the workflow changed to a git workflow.

Not just a Git workflow, but a Git-with-pull-request workflow.

It was said that shortly after that change, someone created a script that made it managable.

I am referencing this message:

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-10/msg00057.html


Now PERSONALLY I am of these opinions:

- there are great advantages to web-based workflows if the web-environment (obviously) is rich enough, because a web-environment:
-- reduces the barrier to entry
- requires less investment on the (translator's) personal computer
- makes the entire workflow more resilient to disruption (you just need ANY computer to login)

This means that I also hold the opinion, that in the face of it:

- The Translators' resistance to a web-environment may or may not have been a form of stubbornness that was not justified completely or even in part

At the same time:

- If it is true that the workflow was changed to a git-workflow it may have greatly complicated matters and increased barrier-to-entry.

I hope I am not blowing stuff up.



But I will just return this with 2 more statements:

- web-based environments for something like translation is near-ideal.
- the problems of Git are greatly downplayed in the overall Linux or open-source community.


Git is (in my opinion) so much a problem that I even want to graduate currently on the topic in university.

The end-user problems for Git are downplayed so much.... that it is not hard to imagine that it may have been introduced against the wishes of those users.


So in support of JDD here:



I do not believe that to be the case, and so I work hard to support
the Project and make it easier for people to actually DO stuff.

can you elaborate how this last sentence is made true? What have been
made to make it easier for people to actually Do stuff? Where is the
stuff?

this.

If the difficulties of git are not being acknowledged, then Richard's statement may easily diverge from what people would commonly experience, and the question asked by JDD here is justified.




If that fails, if the individuals involved refuse to listen and
disrupt the activities of the rest of the Project, sadly the only
option left is exclusion.

exclusion is the death of a project...


That statement by Richard is very hostile again. It treats those "individuals involved" as annoying children. I can imagine some of the annoyance with Richard or any responsible board members, or any responsibles for the migration to newer systems or the solutions of problems....... if people would stubbornly refuse to cooperate, which may have been true to at least a little extent. Regardless, I don't feel this is a way to treat people..... :-/.


I'm sorry you feel that way, but I also believe that there is a high
proportion of my emails which you do not fully understand, as quite
often demonstrated by your responses.

understanding is not agreement. Lack of understanding is common, both
ways. too long mails as this one should not happen too often.

Again the arrogance in Richard's words. If you fail to understand him, you are a small child. This is just very condescending and patronizing.


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